Max Damage Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Liebour are a racist and sexist party. Wonder if Peter Hain will keep his high moral standards and resign from this racist party and ask the BBC to deny it a media platform? From the Queens speech today Equality * Companies with more than 250 employees will be given 'gender pay audits'. * Firms will be able to favour equally qualified women over men and black and Asian candidates over white people when recruiting. * Firms will be able to favour equally qualified women over men and black and Asian people over white people when recruiting. * Bans age discrimination outside the workplace There it is in black and white. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I always put this craziness down to being a way of apologising to the rest of the world for ruling it for so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 They're doing the BNP's work for them..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Well they can't call the BNP racist anymore can they. People in glass houses and all that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 "Firms will be able to favour equally qualified women over men and black and Asian candidates over white people when recruiting." The thing is, when hasn't that been the case? Surely it goes without saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Well here is some NHS bumph on employment and the targeting of certain groups http://www.manchesterpublichealthdevelopme...e%20Summary.pdf The scheme was very successful at recruiting people from local communities, especially from black and minority ethnic (BME) groups. However the majority of recruits were not workless, despite the fact that almost half of the applicants overall were unemployed. Most stakeholders were keen to try and target more men in the next recruitment round, particularly young men and Afro-Caribbean men. Other suggested target groups included disabled people; older and younger people; and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) Liebour are a racist and sexist party. Wonder if Peter Hain will keep his high moral standards and resign from this racist party and ask the BBC to deny it a media platform? From the Queens speech today There it is in black and white. So if all applicants for the job are equally qualified, the employer has the right to choose who he or she wants for the job??? How is that sexist or racist though it does sound somewhat lacking in any substance? As for the other two points, they sound quite good to me. Edited November 18, 2009 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Essentially what this has done is make it legal for companies to appoint workers from a relatively minority, provided everything is equal. So if 50% of a business' clientelle are women they are allowed to appoint a woman over a man if everything else is equal. What is interesting though is if 49% of a business's clientelle are white men but less than that are employed then technically white men can have this rule applied to them- which is good for me since less than 49% of doctors in the NHS are white men but in the North East especially 49% of the population is. This has been championed by Harriet Harman and she is a moody cow who thinks women, blacks, ethnic minorities, homosexuals etc. should be positively discriminated for. Positive discrimination is against human rights- as defined by Europe- so do to so is illegal but what this law has done is make it legal what many companies have been doing in the past anyway. I don't know where the black and white thing the original poster quoted from is from, but having read the actual bill over the summer I can tell you that isn't technically right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 It gives the option to say you did not get employed because you were white when all else was equal. That is racism in my book. The best person for the job should get it everytime as there will never be a case in my view of everything being equal because everyone is different. the qoute came from our beloved national press. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 So if all applicants for the job are equally qualified, the employer has the right to choose who he or she wants for the job??? How is that sexist or racist though it does sound somewhat lacking in any substance? As for the other two points, they sound quite good to me. +1 Exactly... I am no fan of "positive" discrimination but this is not that... This is simply saying to companies (maybe even encouraging a company) that if all things are equal then opt for the women or the black guy... White men dominate position of seniority in the work place and there are still companies where the bloke culture runs rife. I think this is a more sensible approach than positive discrimination. I think companies should be encouraged to do such things. What I will say is haven't the politicians got better things to do then make up laws that in fact do not require an actual law. That is what stinks about Labour... Anyway, thanks to Max for once again bringing this things to the fore front. If only he commented on Latics as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) It gives the option to say you did not get employed because you were white when all else was equal. That is racism in my book. No it give people like you a chance to whip it up and blow it out of all proportion... Its not racism. But it is playing into the BNPs hands because people like you used it for your agenda... The best person for the job should get it everytime as there will never be a case in my view of everything being equal because everyone is different. ....maybe you missed the equally qualified bit... Edited November 18, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Talking of racism, I remember a letter in Viz, "Racism cuts both ways. Often I'm walking down the street minding my own business, when black police officers stop me and say "Turn out your pockets honky." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) This is on the front of the BNP website... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1b9J8D3tOg...player_embedded "horrific", "zoo", "scary"... as they drive around a couple of streets around Wembley...around a mosque...during pray time The bang on about Wembley not being for "British" people (because British Muslims aren't British you know)... How its the home of Football and how people coming to the world cup will not see any British people I have been Wembley many times and NEVER once have I been into the town of Wembley Edited November 18, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) Here come the labour cannot be racist brigade. The fact is they want to bring in laws to discriminate based on sex and colour. That is racism and sexism no matter how anyone wants to dress it up and from a party who has accused every man and his dog of racism for far, far less the past 12 years. More votes for the vile BNP have just been assured by this discriminatory policy which will foster more issues, more distrust, and more antagonism. Commenting on Latics is just far too depressing at the moment!!!! Edited November 18, 2009 by Max Damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Here come the labour cannot be racist brigade They could be...if they where being racist... The fact is they want to bring in laws to discriminate based on sex and colour. That is racism and sexism no matter how anyone wants to dress it up and from a party who has accused every man and his dog of racism for far, far less the past 12 years. Its not what they are doing... More votes for the vile BNP have just been assured by this discriminatory policy which will foster more issues, more distrust, and more antagonism. Doubtful... The BNP vote has not gone up in a while now and I would doubt this sort of rubbish is going to do much as long as people keep pointing the wacky stance people like yourself make. Commenting on Latics is just far too depressing at the moment!!!! It is not as depressing as the scary right wing bollox your preach... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) So facts on labour policy is now right wing bollocks? True to form then mate as I saw nothing right wing in calling a policy of discrimination on colour and race as racist. I see it as a fact that is helping to create more racism, and more hatred and it is no good burying your head in the sand. Just go round the areas of Birmingham around the Bull Ring to see Labours multi culturism at its absolute finest. I am sure that is all my fault also for believing in fair play and values for all and also having a belief that those who choose to reside in a country should show respect for its culture and not increacingly demand more and more changes to that culture to suit themselves. In the end multi culturism does not work because one will always want to dominate the other. It can only work if those entering any country know the rules of entry and know that that country will not allow its culture to be changed because wether you like it or not the majority of muslims want the muslim way of life and the majority of christians want their way of life and the two are poles apart as I see it. Multi culturism in the labour and socialist sense today is an impossible ideal. History shows it, and history constantly repeats it with war, after war, after war. And no matter which country you go to in any part of the world with large immigration from 1 background they create their own communities and they try to change things to their own way within that community they set up. The Brits do it abroad, the muslims do it and if they could the christians would do it in the middle east. And that is before you get onto the facts that the immigrant community is rife with racism when it comes to Casts, siehks, bangladeshis, Indian, muslim pakistani, christian pakistani, etc, etc Goodnight Edited November 18, 2009 by Max Damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) So facts on labour policy is now right wing bollocks? True to form then mate as I saw nothing right wing in calling a policy of discrimination on colour and race as racist. I see it as a fact that is helping to create more racism, and more hatred and it is no good burying your head in the sand. Just go round the areas of Birmingham around the Bull Ring to see Labours multi culturism at its absolute finest. I am sure that is all my fault also for believing in fair play and values for all and also having a belief that those who choose to reside in a country should show respect for its culture and not increacingly demand more and more changes to that culture to suit themselves. No your not right wing at all You do not believe in fair play though do you. If your where big enough to open your eyes you would see how little fair play there is in this country if your not a white male. Instead you see how every now and then people put a white male second (even in this moderate case in the OP) and you scream that it is not fair. Its fecking hypocrisy of the highest order. In the end multi culturism does not work because one will always want to dominate the other. It can only work if those entering any country know the rules of entry and know that that country will not allow its culture to be changed because wether you like it or not the majority of muslims want the muslim way of life and the majority of christians want their way of life and the two are poles apart as I see it. Again, your not right wing are you This country would of died on its arse if it was not for immigration and these other cultures coming to our shores. perhaps you need to go to the library and pick up a history book ? As for Christians and Muslims being poles apart. First do you consider yourself a Christian ? and secondly if you do, your dead wrong on your second comment... and if your not a Christians then what do you care? Its complete bollox that both religions can not live side by side. They have been doing for a very long time... Multi culturism in the labour and socialist sense today is an impossible ideal. Besides it being a reality within this country and many other countries... ?? Besides this country being strong in the world thanks very much to it. History shows it History shows (MANY TIMES) how valuable immigration can be... (Just skip pass the slave part though - that is not a good way to do business) and history constantly repeats it with war, after war, after war. And no matter which country you go to in any part of the world and large immigration from 1 background creates their own communities and they try to change things to their own way within that community they set up. The Brits do it abroad, the muslims do it and if they could the christians would do it in the middle east. Multi culturism is a tool to stop war and misunderstanding... Not everyone looks around the country and holds your ideas and feelings... Many of us have respect for the doctors, nurses, business, trade etc which has come through immigration and a better understanding of each others cultures. Hence our global economy. And that is before you get onto the facts that the immigrant community is rife with racism when it comes to Casts, siehks, bangladeshis, Indian, muslim pakistani, christian pakistani, etc, etc Goodnight Yeah sleep well... Enjoy your dreams of a totally white Britain... Now that is a depressing thought... Edited November 18, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 So facts on labour policy is now right wing bollocks? True to form then mate as I saw nothing right wing in calling a policy of discrimination on colour and race as racist. I see it as a fact that is helping to create more racism, and more hatred and it is no good burying your head in the sand. Just go round the areas of Birmingham around the Bull Ring to see Labours multi culturism at its absolute finest. I am sure that is all my fault also for believing in fair play and values for all and also having a belief that those who choose to reside in a country should show respect for its culture and not increacingly demand more and more changes to that culture to suit themselves. In the end multi culturism does not work because one will always want to dominate the other. It can only work if those entering any country know the rules of entry and know that that country will not allow its culture to be changed because wether you like it or not the majority of muslims want the muslim way of life and the majority of christians want their way of life and the two are poles apart as I see it. Multi culturism in the labour and socialist sense today is an impossible ideal. History shows it, and history constantly repeats it with war, after war, after war. And no matter which country you go to in any part of the world with large immigration from 1 background they create their own communities and they try to change things to their own way within that community they set up. The Brits do it abroad, the muslims do it and if they could the christians would do it in the middle east. And that is before you get onto the facts that the immigrant community is rife with racism when it comes to Casts, siehks, bangladeshis, Indian, muslim pakistani, christian pakistani, etc, etc Goodnight As in previous debates involving Max, I go along with him so far then have to abruptly split away. This policy IS racist. Dress it up as you like, it is a green light for the public sector to employ perceived minority groups ahead of white males (naturally employers in the private sector will either ignore it if the relevant people have a sensible policy of employing the best person, or ignore it if they are racist/sexist). I refuse once again, just as I did in the Chicken War, to see it as a clash of culture. I refuse the right for Max Damage to speak for my culture or my views. We are not the same, I no doubt hold many deeply held values that he/she doesn't, just as I will do with most readers of this post. I am not a Christian, I am not Anglo-Saxon, I hate a lot of the chav culture that seems to becoming the norm for so many white people in this land. In this, I have a lot in common with many people of all races and religions, why should I not make common cause with them against (mainly white) scum? And with other people of varying races, religions, classes if you like etc against Islamic, Christian, Environmentalist etc loons who would lead us all to disaster given half a chance? Face it Max - it's your country to have your say in, and fingers crossed be able to live your live with some tolerable degree of freedom - but not your country to have it just as you like it. And it was ever thus, there was never some romantic dream where all the English skipped around the village green and all agreed with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 As in previous debates involving Max, I go along with him so far then have to abruptly split away. This policy IS racist. Dress it up as you like, it is a green light for the public sector to employ perceived minority groups ahead of white males (naturally employers in the private sector will either ignore it if the relevant people have a sensible policy of employing the best person, or ignore it if they are racist/sexist). I refuse once again, just as I did in the Chicken War, to see it as a clash of culture. I refuse the right for Max Damage to speak for my culture or my views. We are not the same, I no doubt hold many deeply held values that he/she doesn't, just as I will do with most readers of this post. I am not a Christian, I am not Anglo-Saxon, I hate a lot of the chav culture that seems to becoming the norm for so many white people in this land. In this, I have a lot in common with many people of all races and religions, why should I not make common cause with them against (mainly white) scum? And with other people of varying races, religions, classes if you like etc against Islamic, Christian, Environmentalist etc loons who would lead us all to disaster given half a chance? Face it Max - it's your country to have your say in, and fingers crossed be able to live your live with some tolerable degree of freedom - but not your country to have it just as you like it. And it was ever thus, there was never some romantic dream where all the English skipped around the village green and all agreed with each other. Good post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Yeah sleep well... Enjoy your dreams of a totally white Britain... Now that is a depressing thought... I hate a lot of the chav culture that seems to becoming the norm for so many white people in this land... A country full of chavs? Not on my watch. National Service/Community Service and the birch; you step out of line? Then be prepared to be knocked back into it, society has gone soft. Sooner we start cleaning our streets of chavs the better, that's the real problem with this country - :censored:ing leeches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 As in previous debates involving Max, I go along with him so far then have to abruptly split away. This policy IS racist. Dress it up as you like, it is a green light for the public sector to employ perceived minority groups ahead of white males (naturally employers in the private sector will either ignore it if the relevant people have a sensible policy of employing the best person, or ignore it if they are racist/sexist). It is and it isn't as far as I can remember after reading the bill (as opposed to relying on the national press to summarise it for me), it allows employers (and I think you are right in saying it will mainly be the public sector or the semi-public sector who do this) to employ a woman over a man where everything else is equal (it will happen- most interviews have some sort of scoring system and people will score the same) provided there is a dirge of women currently employed in that sector. For example engineering can use it, but it would be very very hard for the NHS (the biggest employer in the country by some way) to justify employing a woman using the rule, bearing in mind that over 60% of med school graduates are now female, and as for the other professions they have been female heavy for a while. As I mentioned in my first post it will be interesting to see what happens when white men who despite being 45% of the population (on average- in some areas its 30% and in others its 48-49%) use this rule because they aren't 45% of the workforce. The same with those of a Black and Ethnic minority background. What it appears to me to be doing is using a quota system and when you haven't quite got your quota of whoever high enough you can use this law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 (edited) I stick by what I say. Multi culturism does not work. I have friends from other cultures and they all have one thing in common. they all have integrated into our society, so on a small scale it does work but only because they have a desire to work and fit in to the society they have come to. The majority do not and the evidence in the UK is overwhelming in birmingham, Bradford, Leicester, Oldham, etc, etc. They form their own communities and there is no hiding from that. The reasons why that happens can be argued from both sides but the fact remains there is a divide and a split between communities and mass immigration always results in that split. Edited November 19, 2009 by Max Damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I stick by what I say. Multi culturism does not work. I have friends from other cultures and they all have one thing in common. they all have integrated into our society, so on a small scale it does work but only because they have a desire to work and fit in to the society they have come to. It doesn't work then it does work? Are you sure that "on a large scale" it doesn't work or maybe it's not allowed to work by extremist pressure on both sides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 I stick by what I say. Multi culturism does not work. I have friends from other cultures and they all have one thing in common. they all have integrated into our society, so on a small scale it does work but only because they have a desire to work and fit in to the society they have come to. The majority do not and the evidence in the UK is overwhelming in birmingham, Bradford, Leicester, Oldham, etc, etc. They form their own communities and there is no hiding from that. The reasons why that happens can be argued from both sides but the fact remains there is a divide and a split between communities and mass immigration always results in that split. What we need is a dictator. A bit of a socialist perhaps, who can trim the edges so to speak. Arbeit macht frei. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Damage Posted November 19, 2009 Author Share Posted November 19, 2009 Are you sure that "on a large scale" it doesn't work or maybe it's not allowed to work by extremist pressure on both sides? You will never remove that pressure which is why it does not work on a large scale. It is human nature. It is also something the west has created with its greed by ripping off all these countries were the mass immigration comes from. A true multi cultural world would require the west to stop stealing mineral wealth, stop stealing oil wealth, and stop using slave labour in the poorer countries to allow them to bring their living standards up to ours. But of course such a transition would be very painfull for the west, but would lead to a fairer and safer world in my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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