garcon Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 But moving further off topic, which of these players would you take right now, as a Latics player, not a loan. You have the pick of any, money is no object. Ryan Bertrand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetman Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Penney never disguised this. He said he would use it. With budgets as tight as they are the loan system has to be used for clubs such as ourselves. I'd say Penney's loanees are adding more. Yeah, I totally agree, DP's loans have been better than Shez'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetman Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 My picks Ryan Bertrand Neil Killkenny Shane Supple (if he was still playing)....Alternatively Darryl Flahaven (if he was fit) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shefflatic Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 from blackpool boards: ust taken from the very reliable transfer rumours site !!! Ian Holloway is preparing a fresh bid for Hull City's out of favour winger Peter Halmosi. Fee is believed to be around 600k and Halmosi is relishing the chance to join up with his ex plymouth gaffer at Blackpool. Holloways other targets include Marcus Bent , Debrecen's Gergely Rudolph . Charlton's Jonjo Shelvey and Kelly Youga , along with Preston duo Callum Davidson and Darren Carter. One man out of the seaside club on loan is Ishmel Demontangac who is likely to join Oldham Athletic on loan for a month along with striker Daniel Nardiello. Blackpool will fend off any bids from Wigan and Nottingham Forest for prize asset Charlie Adam. However ollie is resigned to losing Alex–John Baptiste to Middlesborough however pool stand to make a massive profit on the defender who was signed for a measly 5k from Mansfield Town. maybe taylor is offski...and this guy HAS a left foot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I think that's 29. Of which a few were genuine "emergency" loans. Plus others on contract probably takes us to about 70/80 even if not JP's 100. How does that compare with other clubs I wonder? 100 was a throwaway figure which was including all players..not just loanees. it still ridiculous ..approx 60 different in 2 and a half seasons isn't it? the whole point of a having a good squad is trying to keep a consistent squad. when was the last time we ever had the same 11 players start 2 or 3 games in a row? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 100 was a throwaway figure which was including all players..not just loanees. it still ridiculous ..approx 60 different in 2 and a half seasons isn't it? the whole point of a having a good squad is trying to keep a consistent squad. when was the last time we ever had the same 11 players start 2 or 3 games in a row? When we had the good run in September early October I reckon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 When we had the good run in September early October I reckon... this season?..2 or 3 on the bounce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Without denying that it seems like a lot of players, I can't help but feel the manager is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If players are injured, and TTA don't allow budget for permanent signings, or it's outside a transfer window, he has no resort but the loan market. If players lose form, and are baying for blood, and TTA don't allow budget for permanent signings, or it's outside a transfer window, he has no resort but the loan market. For example, when Abbott and Smalley were injured, Parker and Alessandra not performing, O'Grady out of favour, what else was Penney supposed to do but loan strikers? Could we realistically expect him to have signed more strikers at the start of the season in case of emergencies? Sure, not every loan signing has been an emergency loan; but if we really went through each one individually, I suspect at the time fans saw some justification in the majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 However ollie is resigned to losing Alex–John Baptiste to Middlesborough however pool stand to make a massive profit on the defender who was signed for a measly 5k from Mansfield Town. He's a left back who back a couple of seasons after a Simon Charlton had gone I said he'd be a good one to sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 I'm sure I've forgotten a few? There's been that many but we're going on for nearly 60! In 2 1/2 years, it's not our team anymore, it started under Wadsworth and it has gone bloody crazy! Just who are we anymore? We're by far the only club. It's football in general Paul. About the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Pizza Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Should have happened before he went to Bury in the first place .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 (edited) Some hard data on player turnover from Soccerbase, to put some numbers on this... I haven't double-checked their stats, but they're likely to be reasonable for illustrative purposes, and I haven't distinguished between expensive, long-term signings and short-term deals. Leicester (champions 2008/2009): 2008/2009: 6 permanent signings, 10 loan signings 2007/2008: 7 permanent signings, 12 loan signings 2006/2007: 10 permanent signings, 6 loan signings Total, last three years before promotion: 23 permanent & 28 loan signings (51 signings) Peterborough (second placed): 2008/2009: 5 permanent signings, 4 loan signings 2007/2008: 6 permanent signings, 4 loan signings 2006/2007: 23 permanent signings, 7 loan signings Total, last three years before promotion: 34 permanent & 15 loan signings (49 signings) MK Dons (third placed): 2008/2009: 5 permanent signings, 9 loan signings 2007/2008: 14 permanent signings, 4 loan signings 2006/2007: 10 permanent signings, 7 loan signings Total, last three years before promotion: 29 permanent & 20 loan signings (49 signings) Swansea (champions 2007/2008): 2007/2008: 5 permanent signings, 4 loan signings 2006/2007: 13 permanent signings, 5 loan signings 2005/2006: 9 permanent signings, 3 loan signings Total, last three years before promotion: 27 permanent & 12 loan signings (39 signings) ...and us... 2009/2010: 12 permanent signings, 8 loan signings 2008/2009: 1 permanent signing, 13 loan signings 2007/2008: 8 permanent signings, 9 loan signings 2006/2007: 11 permanent signings, 12 loan signings Total, last three years: 21 permanent & 30 loan signings (51 signings) if including this season, or 20 permanent & 34 loan signings (total 54) if counting the same years as the top three from last year. ... So, in terms of total number of signings over the last three years, we're not that far ahead of other teams in our division who've been successful. Yes, we've had fewer permanent and more loan signings - but doesn't that reflect our budgets and TTA's preference to run the club on a tighter budget (rightly or wrongly)? Yes, we've possibly had more questionable quality in our loan signings - but for every dodgy one there's a situation we couldn't have predicted, like Ben Turner being sent off and ruling himself out, or our three-goalkeeper emergency spell in 2006. Edited January 6, 2010 by Crusoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 We're by far the only club. It's football in general Paul. About the norm. Oh yeah. I forgot to add in my post above; this was kind of the point I was trying to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 good work fella..can you find scunny's please mate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Haha, hold on a sec. I think their stats skew it a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Scunthorpe (champions 2006/2007): 2006/2007: 9 permanent signings, 5 loan signings 2005/2006: 5 permanent signings, 5 loan signings 2004/2005: 6 permanent signings, 8 loan signings Total, last three years before promotion: 20 permanent & 18 loan signings (38 signings) Having said that, one factor I'm unsure on is what impact the emergency loan rule had on Scunthorpe, which effectively increased the number of loan signings you could have in a season. It came into force in the 2005/2006 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 cheers mate..interesting. i always look at scunny as an equivalent size club to us. probably same sized budget, same size crowds(when in our division) and yet they have a great 4 or 5 year period. i think your findings above say a lot for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 How so? Same or different conclusions? See, I don't know what to draw from Scunthorpe, as they had the fewest signings out of all of the clubs I looked at, and the oldest data, so I'm not sure if they're comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 same conclusion.in that latics have gone ott with the turnover of players over the last 3 years. i'm also suspecting that the other clubs you mentioned before brought in some bloody good quality loan signings in that latics wouldn't even get a sniff at.they had budgets out of our league. i just read into it that scunny kept a very tight squad together and brought in loans only when REALLY necessary. and over a 4/5 year period. its brought good success for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 The thing with our turnover, though, is that it can't be read as a simple number. Some players were short-term squad fillers; some came to the end of their contract and left even though we would've kept them (if we could and had funds); I'd be cautious at making any really sweeping statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 same conclusion.in that latics have gone ott with the turnover of players over the last 3 years. i'm also suspecting that the other clubs you mentioned before brought in some bloody good quality loan signings in that latics wouldn't even get a sniff at.they had budgets out of our league. i just read into it that scunny kept a very tight squad together and brought in loans only when REALLY necessary. and over a 4/5 year period. its brought good success for them. Jermaine Beckford on loan being the catalyst for promotion when they lost Keogh to Wolves, if only we hadn't fooked about when Porter was injured/lost form. Clarke was good but we got him for only a month, we replaced him with Luigi 'fookin' Glombard. Sheridan's fannying about or was it TTA's penny pinching cost us automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 When Scunthorpe took Beckford on loan he'd scored a grand total of one goal (on loan at Carlisle) so was definitely still an unknown quantity at league level. They arguably got lucky with him, so harsh to blame TTA/Sheridan for not getting lucky as well. Besides, of course most loan signings are not guaranteed to succeed - in most cases, if they were that good, they wouldn't be out on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 The thing with our turnover, though, is that it can't be read as a simple number. Some players were short-term squad fillers; some came to the end of their contract and left even though we would've kept them (if we could and had funds); I'd be cautious at making any really sweeping statements. thing is we had a new manager in moore wanting his own players when he took over from talbot.. then shez from moore.. now penney from shez. in the space of 5 years we haven't had a settled squad of 15-20 players (i'm guessing again on the number there ,but i suspect its not far off.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusoe Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Yep, you're right, the turnover in managers is a big factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 When Scunthorpe took Beckford on loan he'd scored a grand total of one goal (on loan at Carlisle) so was definitely still an unknown quantity at league level. They arguably got lucky with him, so harsh to blame TTA/Sheridan for not getting lucky as well. Besides, of course most loan signings are not guaranteed to succeed - in most cases, if they were that good, they wouldn't be out on loan. They get lucky very often then, Keogh was a kid at Leeds, Hayes a kid at Rangers, Hooper had done sod all for Southend and Billy Sharp had been released by Sheff Utd, lucky or a :censored:-hot scouting network that pays dividends time and time again snaring players that have earned them millions and shot them to promotion three times in the last 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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