Changing managers

[thelaticsfan]

Hi all just wanted to raise another point in the penney in penney out saga,

 

As we all know when we change managers, they like to ship out the old managers players and bring in a lot of their own,

this possesses a large risk factor as we have seen with dave penneys players, some turn out to be alright and work well with the system and some turn out to be mistakes and end up on the bench or transferred out,

 

so our options are at the end of the season:

 

1) keep with dave penney or

2) bring in a new manager,

 

1) if we keep dave penney, he has now seen which players work well and which ones are not worth keeping, so at the end of the season he can keep the good ones and get rid of the duffers and bring in some new faces, again some will work well and some will not,

 

2) if we get a new manager, we could lose some of the good players who will go with penney aswell as the duffers and bring in more new faces, this is more of a risk as there are more new faces and more of a possibility of getting more crap players

 

eg:

Oldham squad of 21 players:

 

lets say 15 good, 6 duffers (just an example, not sure of actual numbers, but the math still works out the same, regardless of squad size and ratio)

 

1) if we keep DP then we will get rid of 6 bad players and say out of new players we get 3 good ones and 3 that are duffers again

 

2) if we change manager then we will get rid of the 6 duffers plus 4 good who will follow DP, then out of the new players we get 5 good and 5 bad

 

then the stats are as follows:

 

1) with dp in: 18 good players, 3 duffers

 

2) with new manager: 16 good players, 5 duffers

 

I am basing these stats on what as happened in recent season where out of all the players we bring in, usually 50% are good and 50% are bad

 

also basing on the fact that we keep the good players and not sell on, and the fact that we would have a smaller budget with a new manager because we would have to pay up DP's contract

 

Those of you still awake after reading this, your thoughts will be greatly appreciated!

 

Sean

[edhunteruk]

Hi all just wanted to raise another point in the penney in penney out saga,

 

As we all know when we change managers, they like to ship out the old managers players and bring in a lot of their own,

this possesses a large risk factor as we have seen with dave penneys players, some turn out to be alright and work well with the system and some turn out to be mistakes and end up on the bench or transferred out,

 

so our options are at the end of the season:

 

1) keep with dave penney or

2) bring in a new manager,

 

1) if we keep dave penney, he has now seen which players work well and which ones are not worth keeping, so at the end of the season he can keep the good ones and get rid of the duffers and bring in some new faces, again some will work well and some will not,

 

2) if we get a new manager, we could lose some of the good players who will go with penney aswell as the duffers and bring in more new faces, this is more of a risk as there are more new faces and more of a possibility of getting more crap players

 

eg:

Oldham squad of 21 players:

 

lets say 15 good, 6 duffers (just an example, not sure of actual numbers, but the math still works out the same, regardless of squad size and ratio)

 

1) if we keep DP then we will get rid of 6 bad players and say out of new players we get 3 good ones and 3 that are duffers again

 

2) if we change manager then we will get rid of the 6 duffers plus 4 good who will follow DP, then out of the new players we get 5 good and 5 bad

 

then the stats are as follows:

 

1) with dp in: 18 good players, 3 duffers

 

2) with new manager: 16 good players, 5 duffers

 

I am basing these stats on what as happened in recent season where out of all the players we bring in, usually 50% are good and 50% are bad

 

also basing on the fact that we keep the good players and not sell on, and the fact that we would have a smaller budget with a new manager because we would have to pay up DP's contract

 

Those of you still awake after reading this, your thoughts will be greatly appreciated!

 

Sean

 

fair post

 

i would think it would all depend on who you would replace penney with..

 

bring in a very decent manager instead of a journey man lower league bloke and things may turn round quicker..all dependant on budget to work with also.

 

if were given a similar budget next season to this or even lower,then its going to be more of the same for the forseeable....you cant win promotion getting players in from the basement or journeymen players just happy to take a wage....

 

if penney is still here next season i doubt he will change anything vastly or wholesale,that would be like admitting he got it wrong and no manager will do that.

[outoftheblue]

... we could lose some of the good players ..

 

Typo?

[thelaticsfan]

Typo?

 

Haha, its not all been bad, think weve had some rays of sunshine this year, stephens and kieran lee most noticeably have put good performances in, Jacobsen seems to be pretty good to, holdsworth seemed to be ok when he was fit aswell

[steveoafc]

He's got to go for me...his tactics and assessment of players is bobbins.

When we signed colbeck and parker, bradford and hudds fans warned us we had signed two duffers and couldn't believe their luck that someone had taken them off them.Just what penney and his staff had seen in them lord only knows!

I'll take my chances with a new guy thanks, i couldn't take another season of the dross we've endured so far.

[pk200]

He's got to go for me...his tactics and assessment of players is bobbins.

When we signed colbeck and parker, bradford and hudds fans warned us we had signed two duffers and couldn't believe their luck that someone had taken them off them.Just what penney and his staff had seen in them lord only knows!

I'll take my chances with a new guy thanks, i couldn't take another season of the dross we've endured so far.

Dead right re parker ....still undecided about colbeck needs to improve first touch but pace is there.

[Break The Silence]

Dead right re parker ....still undecided about colbeck needs to improve first touch but pace is there.

 

I'm really, really, really fast over 100 metres, in a straight line, but i'm absolutely gash at football!

 

Can I play instead of Colbeck tomorrow night please Mr. Penney?

[Lookers_Carl]

Hi all just wanted to raise another point in the penney in penney out saga,

 

As we all know when we change managers, they like to ship out the old managers players and bring in a lot of their own,

this possesses a large risk factor as we have seen with dave penneys players, some turn out to be alright and work well with the system and some turn out to be mistakes and end up on the bench or transferred out,

 

so our options are at the end of the season:

 

1) keep with dave penney or

2) bring in a new manager,

 

1) if we keep dave penney, he has now seen which players work well and which ones are not worth keeping, so at the end of the season he can keep the good ones and get rid of the duffers and bring in some new faces, again some will work well and some will not,

 

2) if we get a new manager, we could lose some of the good players who will go with penney aswell as the duffers and bring in more new faces, this is more of a risk as there are more new faces and more of a possibility of getting more crap players

 

eg:

Oldham squad of 21 players:

 

lets say 15 good, 6 duffers (just an example, not sure of actual numbers, but the math still works out the same, regardless of squad size and ratio)

 

1) if we keep DP then we will get rid of 6 bad players and say out of new players we get 3 good ones and 3 that are duffers again

 

2) if we change manager then we will get rid of the 6 duffers plus 4 good who will follow DP, then out of the new players we get 5 good and 5 bad

 

then the stats are as follows:

 

1) with dp in: 18 good players, 3 duffers

 

2) with new manager: 16 good players, 5 duffers

 

I am basing these stats on what as happened in recent season where out of all the players we bring in, usually 50% are good and 50% are bad

 

also basing on the fact that we keep the good players and not sell on, and the fact that we would have a smaller budget with a new manager because we would have to pay up DP's contract

 

Those of you still awake after reading this, your thoughts will be greatly appreciated!

 

Sean

 

Again, fair post.

 

No doubt it is a risk, but its a risk that sometimes works (eg replacing Talbot with Moore) and that sometimes doesnt work (replacing Shez with Royle).

 

I think it boils down to whether TTA think Penney is going to get us relegated, and what TTA perceive to be the greater cost, sacking the manager or getting relegated.

 

If Penney is going to go this season (which I seriously doubt), it has to be soon, before the transfer deadline, and whilst we still have enoug games left to pull clear of safety.

[Lookers_Carl]

And lads, cut the insults and personals.

[Break The Silence]

And lads, cut the insults and personals.

 

Come on Carl, don't take things too seriously, moderator or not. It's called banter!

 

I'm a big boy, I can take being called nasty names. I only post every blue moon and you've deleted it.....

[pk200]

I'm really, really, really fast over 100 metres, in a straight line, but i'm absolutely gash at football!

 

Can I play instead of Colbeck tomorrow night please Mr. Penney?

yES BUT CAN U TAKE THE BALL WITH U ,THEN CROSS IT ? IF SO WRITE IN FOR A TRIAL!!

[Break The Silence]

yES BUT CAN U TAKE THE BALL WITH U ,THEN CROSS IT ? IF SO WRITE IN FOR A TRIAL!!

 

Neither can Colbeck, which was my initial point!

 

 

[lancy lad]

I'm really, really, really fast over 100 metres, in a straight line, but i'm absolutely gash at football!

 

Can I play instead of Colbeck tomorrow night please Mr. Penney?

I agree. I would rather see you given a chance instead of Colbeck

[Midsblue]

I'd get rid now and put Tony P in temporary charge or opt for Ritchie holding the fort until the summer or swallow my pride and bring back Dowie. People say Dowie burnt his bridges but so what?! Time heals and he's out of work apart from his punditry, he wants/needs to climb the managerial ladder again and I'm happy for him to use us as a stepping stone again as long as we're in the Championshop by the time he leaves. Get him signed up on a 3-year deal and when he succeeds, which he will, we can prosper from a compensation pay out.

 

We've nothing to lose as I'm starting to believe we'll stay up by the skin of our teeth regardless of who's in charge. Penney has shown no direction, no ability to motivate players, he's tactically inept and has proven to be gash in the loan market so far.

 

Come May, let's see who applies for the position and fingers crossed that the owners finally come good with their appointment. Dowie apart, Sheridan has only come close and he was here already.

[Lookers_Carl]

I'd get rid now and put Tony P in temporary charge or opt for Ritchie holding the fort until the summer or swallow my pride and bring back Dowie. People say Dowie burnt his bridges but so what?! Time heals and he's out of work apart from his punditry, he wants/needs to climb the managerial ladder again and I'm happy for him to use us as a stepping stone again as long as we're in the Championshop by the time he leaves. Get him signed up on a 3-year deal and when he succeeds, which he will, we can prosper from a compensation pay out.

 

We've nothing to lose as I'm starting to believe we'll stay up by the skin of our teeth regardless of who's in charge. Penney has shown no direction, no ability to motivate players, he's tactically inept and has proven to be gash in the loan market so far.

 

Come May, let's see who applies for the position and fingers crossed that the owners finally come good with their appointment. Dowie apart, Sheridan has only come close and he was here already.

 

If he was interested in the job would have Dowie back tomorrow

[Midsblue]

If he was interested in the job would have Dowie back tomorrow

 

He would jump at the chance I reckon if the terms are satisfactory for both parties.

 

I doubt the owners would let him back, which is short sighted to say the least.

 

If fans were honest then 99% would have him back too. Some have the bitter taste in their mouths after he jumped ship shortly after the "go hard or go home" statement. Then again, if 99% were in the same situation with no security in their current role but another club offered security but the chance to ply your trade at a higher level then I'm sure 99% would have done the same as Dowie did.

[Lee Sinnott]

If he was interested in the job would have Dowie back tomorrow

 

I would have him back in a shot, and beg him to bring John Harbin with him.

[Wardie]

Dowie would equate to

 

Bums on Seats

Disciplined Regime

Improved Fitness Levels

Passionate, Committed Displays

Goals

Respect from the Players

 

and

 

Giant Defenders and Goalkeeper.

 

 

What's not to like?

 

[Midsblue]

These are the questions that we need to put back to the owners via Barry or by the guys who met with Simon Corney -

 

1. What % of the ST holders want Penney still in charge?

I would say >80% on here want him gone. The consensus in the Chron want him gone.

 

2. Would the owners employ Dowie if Penney was to go?

Bitterness aside by the small minority, I would say >90% would want Dowie back based on the factors that Wardie has said. The owners have to swallow their pride and satisfy the fans. Having Dowie back would increase our profile again within the media too.

 

Dowie would return and finish the job he started. We have a smaller playing budget but he'd instill the passion, motivation and determination to succeed in the players we have at the moment. He'd maximise transfer funds at his disposal and secure a financial return to the owners - we would have made a major profit on Armstrong, Hall, Hill and Andrews had we not had to sell them for far less than their true value in the fire sale.

 

It's a no-brainer for me. Dowie's available, no compensation needs to be paid for him, he still lives local, still shows a fondness for the club when commentating on them for Sky and has shown how football should be played at Boundary Park.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Midsblue

[Bristolatic]

2) if we get a new manager, we could lose some of the good players who will go with penney

 

Sean

 

I agree with most of what you said apart from this bit. This is an assumption that another club would not only want Penney, but those players would want to play for whoever it was he went to. After his record this season, I wouldn't see many clubs clamouring for his signature. I've never joined the "Penney out" brigade as I believe that to sack a manager with only a dozen games to go is committing suicide. It doesn't give the new guy enough of a chance to get things right and can further disrupt the team.

 

However, after 60 years of being a Tic, this is the first time I'd probably take a chance and get rid now, but only provided we get the right man in straight away. And who would that right man be? Only two readily spring to mind - Iain Dowie & Phil Brown. As we probably couldn't afford the latter and no-one knows if the former is interested (or whether TTA would go for it), it's a bit of a lottery.

 

Up to now, as I say, I've been against Penney going at this stage, but one or two things have helped me come out 60/40 in favour.

1) The mystery surrounding Price's sudden return to Millwall only to end up at Carlisle suggests he didn't want to be here any more; I wonder why?

2) Lewis Guy, for God's sake! 21 goals in 161 games - he's really going to set the place on fire.

3) From Penney initially saying earlier in the season "We'll go with what we've got" to bringing in loan strikers of questionable ability.

4) Now he's satisfied with 5 points from 9 against basement outfits with mind boggling tactics on Saturday

5) A total lack of any adventurous football - no-one prepared to have crack from 20 yards at every opportunity - if they did, one of the buggers just might go in

 

With such events and tactics (or lack of) I fear for the cub I have loved for so long.

 

So, unless someone of the calibre of Dowie or Brown can turn up at the BP gates in the next 48 hours, let DP carry on and hope to God we get the right results at Stockport and then the 3 home games. If we can't get 9 points as an absolute minimum, then we're in deep doggy-doo. With any luck, that minimum 9 points should see us safe enough as long as the rest of the season isn't a complete disaster. But then, Mr Penney et al, on yer bike and go and ruin someone else's beloved football club.

 

That's me off my soap box.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Bristolatic

[thelaticsfan]

I agree with most of what you said apart from this bit. This is an assumption that another club would not only want Penney, but those players would want to play for whoever it was he went to. After his record this season, I wouldn't see many clubs clamouring for his signature. I've never joined the "Penney out" brigade as I believe that to sack a manager with only a dozen games to go is committing suicide. It doesn't give the new guy enough of a chance to get things right and can further disrupt the team.

 

However, after 60 years of being a Tic, this is the first time I'd probably take a chance and get rid now, but only provided we get the right man in straight away. And who would that right man be? Only two readily spring to mind - Iain Dowie & Phil Brown. As we probably couldn't afford the latter and no-one knows if the former is interested (or whether TTA would go for it), it's a bit of a lottery.

 

Up to now, as I say, I've been against Penney going at this stage, but one or two things have helped me come out 60/40 in favour.

1) The mystery surrounding Price's sudden return to Millwall only to end up at Carlisle suggests he didn't want to be here any more; I wonder why?

2) Lewis Guy, for God's sake! 21 goals in 161 games - he's really going to set the place on fire.

3) From Penney initially saying earlier in the season "We'll go with what we've got" to bringing in loan strikers of questionable ability.

4) Now he's satisfied with 5 points from 9 against basement outfits with mind boggling tactics on Saturday

5) A total lack of any adventurous football - no-one prepared to have crack from 20 yards at every opportunity - if they did, one of the buggers just might go in

 

With such events and tactics (or lack of) I fear for the cub I have loved for so long.

 

So, unless someone of the calibre of Dowie or Brown can turn up at the BP gates in the next 48 hours, let DP carry on and hope to God we get the right results at Stockport and then the 3 home games. If we can't get 9 points as an absolute minimum, then we're in deep doggy-doo. With any luck, that minimum 9 points should see us safe enough as long as the rest of the season isn't a complete disaster. But then, Mr Penney et al, on yer bike and go and ruin someone else's beloved football club.

 

That's me off my soap box.

 

My main concern for penney out now is the compensation package and bringing the new manager in who could do just the same as what DP did

 

Im not sure if i would want Ian dowie back or not, not because of his departure last time but because this time around his budget will be considerably less, hes been out of the game for a while (like joe royle) and look at the events surronding DP, last time he was in management he was doing really well with doncaster and got them successive promotions, with darlington he got a team with no money into playoffs of the division, then he comes here and struggles, my point is, just because he did well last time, doesnt guarantee results this time round, especially with different players,

 

but then again he does seem to be a very good tactician, not afraid to play attacking football and try bold new ideas, tactics and formations but like you said, if we did get rid of DP, who else could we bring in?

[thelaticsfan]

And also would he still be able to bring in the same staff he brought in from before?