Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 The Lib Dem's are dead to me, Zero's. For this reason alone. I heard with my own ears the Didsbury MP (John Leech) say they would oppose tuition fees and they've done almost nothing - aside from as you say prevent the full Americanistion of the system. And if anyone thinks that's an acceptable system then go research the class gulf in the US between those who can afford to attend University. It's sickening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Basically similar approach to the American system.. Private loans, open market, Unis left to charge whatever they want... and everything that goes with that... They where actually largely pegged back by the Lib Dems... Still, the Lib Dems sold out overall... Is that a yes or a no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I can't find the book I read at Uni on this, but this one could be worth getting from the Library if you're interested: http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520261693 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Is that a yes or a no? Tuition fees in a American style system are paid up front... Mostly via a private loan... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And can comfortably run into 6 figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And can comfortably run into 6 figures. Yup... but for balance we should point out you can go to a Uni in America for similar amounts UK students pay currently. But they this is the whole two tired educational system in operation we are talking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And is that certifiably the intent of the Conservatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And is that certifiably the intent of the Conservatives? This is me following politics, listening to what the ministers said they wanted, reading what is in their manifestos, understanding the ethos behind said parties etc etc etc... If you want me to find you a link with all this in it for you nicely condensed then I can't give you that... These are my feelings and opinions based on what I have heard and read... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 And they're one's I'd be inclined to agree with. I've managed to do some reading on that book - if this is something which is of genuine concern I'd rent it from the Library - which reminds me that the Tories want to close 400 libraries around the UK... who uses them you ask? The poor. :censored:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) And they're one's I'd be inclined to agree with. I've managed to do some reading on that book - if this is something which is of genuine concern I'd rent it from the Library - which reminds me that the Tories want to close 400 libraries around the UK... who uses them you ask? The poor. :censored:. Two are being closed near me... Luckily the one most local is staying... Its not just the "poor" either... Heavily used by children and elderly from all parts of society. Depends on the area but ours is a real community hub and the two which are going are going to be really missed. The kids from those areas will now have to walk about 30 mins to ours. Been using the Library since having the baby. Great supply of bedtime books for her Edited January 31, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Talking about Libraries... £30!!!! in fines!! last time I went... Then again I think the book had been missing for about 2 months... the book was only about £5 according to the price on the shelve...! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 This is me following politics, listening to what the ministers said they wanted, reading what is in their manifestos, understanding the ethos behind said parties etc etc etc... If you want me to find you a link with all this in it for you nicely condensed then I can't give you that... These are my feelings and opinions based on what I have heard and read... That's just it, I'm not having a pop at you and calling you a liar or owt. I just need some official clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Exactly. Who can afford to buy the hundreds of books you need when you have a newborn? It's great to hear you're reading to her - my fondest memories as a kid are my parents reading to me. I think the thing that drives my thought process more than any other is a desire for equality. Be it economical, social, legal, etc. We legally made women equal, then non-whites, gays and so on. Socially and economically those changes are following suit, slowly but they're coming. In the space of a few months the Tories have increased VAT (hits the lower class hardest), increased student fees (hits the lower class hardest) and planned closure of 400 libraries (hits the lower class hardest). They're recreating a class divide this country has worked hard to overcome. Oh, and they're selling off public forests - who can afford to buy this plush green space that once belonged to the UK population as a whole? The upper classes. :censored:ing. :censored:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 That's just it, I'm not having a pop at you and calling you a liar or owt. I just need some official clarification. That's called Argument From Authority: The basic structure of such arguments is as follows: Professor X believes A, Professor X speaks from authority, therefore A is true. Often this argument is implied by emphasizing the many years of experience, or the formal degrees held by the individual making a specific claim. The converse of this argument is sometimes used, that someone does not possess authority, and therefore their claims must be false. (This may also be considered an ad-hominen logical fallacy – see below.) In practice this can be a complex logical fallacy to deal with. It is legitimate to consider the training and experience of an individual when examining their assessment of a particular claim. Also, a consensus of scientific opinion does carry some legitimate authority. But it is still possible for highly educated individuals, and a broad consensus to be wrong – speaking from authority does not make a claim true. This logical fallacy crops up in more subtle ways also. For example, UFO proponents have argued that UFO sightings by airline pilots should be given special weight because pilots are trained observers, are reliable characters, and are trained not to panic in emergencies. In essence, they are arguing that we should trust the pilot’s authority as an eye witness. There are many subtypes of the argument from authority, essentially referring to the implied source of authority. A common example is the argument ad populi – a belief must be true because it is popular, essentially assuming the authority of the masses. Another example is the argument from antiquity – a belief has been around for a long time and therefore must be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 That's just it, I'm not having a pop at you and calling you a liar or owt. I just need some official clarification. It politics... You won't get it... Things will just change and that will be that... Vote wisely... You will need a party to stick to its manifesto for a start... Hasn't happened in my life time... You have no choice but to read between the lines, listen to what back bencher's are saying as much as ministers, what a party has done in the past, you can only guess at what they will do in the future... When Cameron says he wants "root and branch reform of the NHS"... To me that says privatisation of the NHS based on my own research, reading and history of his party. You won't find that anywhere official though although it could be very true. If your waiting for official clarification, you will get that once the vote has been cast in the house of commons. To late by then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Exactly. Who can afford to buy the hundreds of books you need when you have a newborn? It's great to hear you're reading to her - my fondest memories as a kid are my parents reading to me. Done a lot of research in child development in preparation for my little one. They reckon they single mostly effective thing you can do for your child from as early as possible is to read to them. She loves books and she is only 10 months old. Improve her patience and its made her a really engaging child. Edited January 31, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Exactly. Who can afford to buy the hundreds of books you need when you have a newborn? It's great to hear you're reading to her - my fondest memories as a kid are my parents reading to me. I think the thing that drives my thought process more than any other is a desire for equality. Be it economical, social, legal, etc. We legally made women equal, then non-whites, gays and so on. Socially and economically those changes are following suit, slowly but they're coming. In the space of a few months the Tories have increased VAT (hits the lower class hardest), increased student fees (hits the lower class hardest) and planned closure of 400 libraries (hits the lower class hardest). They're recreating a class divide this country has worked hard to overcome. Oh, and they're selling off public forests - who can afford to buy this plush green space that once belonged to the UK population as a whole? The upper classes. :censored:ing. :censored:. That said, they are doing a lot of good work to rein in the banks... oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 It's okay, I've got loads of Stephen King and Henning Mankell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Don't forget the rumoured FIVE BILLION POUNDS they wrote off in owed tax from Vodafone! (Some claim it's £1.7bn - likely to be somewhere between the two) Edit: forgot to source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...aves-sour-taste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) No offence to you Zorro but I think this is a big problem... Normal people just want clarity and don't want to work for it... ...but we have a media infected with people who attended the top universities from the best of backgrounds spoon feeding information to joe public... the amount of bollocks and propaganda I see in the written and spoken press is a joke... and peoples ability to buy the bull:censored: is even more scary... We saw this during te election when joe public was watching Sky news and reading the News of the world for their balanced coverage of the election... and don't even get me started on the fair and neutral BBC I try to read a couple of different papers, from the Guardian to the Sun to see the angles being pushed on any given subject to try and form a balanced view point. Most people will just read the Sun and just go with it. Edited January 31, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Don't forget the rumoured FIVE BILLION POUNDS they wrote off in owed tax from Vodafone! (Some claim it's £1.7bn - likely to be somewhere between the two) We are all in this together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I'm happy to go a-Googlin' - and have done on many occasions - but, as you would expect, there are contradictory opinions on every single topic of conversation. Kinda hard to sort the truth from the propaganda; and therein lies the problem. It's easy to align yourself to a particular party and buy into what they purport to stand for. Whether or not it's true or bull:censored: remains to be seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Thing is - I studied International Business, I have no dogmatic objection to Tory policy in terms of free market economics. I think they're scum for how they act, not who they are. It just pains me to see the free market ideal being bastardized in such an horrific manner. Smith's ideal wasn't to have a 'free' market where you let some people off of a debt of £5bn whilst aggressively chasing those who owe £500 in council tax (personal experience - red top letter, court injunction threat due to a clerical error at the bank). That's 0.00001 of what Vodafone owe. I'm clearly doing it wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Big society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Big society. Big Socitety aka you bloody well sort it out yourself and if it fails, meh, your loss. Works well in places where people have money and want something to do with there spare time to give back (as long as its not tax). Not so well in inner cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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