oafcprozac Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do we simply shrug our shoulders and let the rug be pulled from under is like ORLFC back in 1995 or do we let Simon Corney and OMBC know in no uncertain terms that leaving Boundary Park with little hope of a new stadium ANYWHERE is not acceptable under any circumstances? Do we wait until there's a supermarket etc on Boundary Park before we act or do we start writing letters and emails now? In the Summer of 2003 no matter how dire the situation was there was always hope, this time it looks bleak. The town sat back and allowed the Rugby club to die and even when they were given a second chance it was rejected mainly because nobody wanted to support a nomadic lower league team with little hope of getting back into SL or having their own home in the forseeable future. (Me included i'm sorry to say) The same will happen, people will simply walk away and leave what remains of the club to rot... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsLee Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Do we simply shrug our shoulders and let the rug be pulled from under is like ORLFC back in 1995 or do we let Simon Corney and OMBC know in no uncertain terms that leaving Boundary Park with little hope of a new stadium ANYWHERE is not acceptable under any circumstances? Do we wait until there's a supermarket etc on Boundary Park before we act or do we start writing letters and emails now? In the Summer of 2003 no matter how dire the situation was there was always hope, this time it looks bleak. The town sat back and allowed the Rugby club to die and even when they were given a second chance it was rejected mainly because nobody wanted to support a nomadic lower league team with little hope of getting back into SL or having their own home in the forseeable future. (Me included i'm sorry to say) The same will happen, people will simply walk away and leave what remains of the club to rot... The thing is the only people who seem to care are the ones who actually support latics and to be honest there is not many, it seems the end is here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 There is a Trust meeting next Thursday at Boundary Park (sponsors box). It starts at 7pm and, as always, the first half hour is an open forum (i.e. anybody can attend). As unpalatable as it may be to some people, come along, have a say. There will be a director of the club in the room, you know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 How much did that cost again? I can't seem to find the actual figures. Yeah, that's helpful. Let's have that debate. Again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 There is a Trust meeting next Thursday at Boundary Park (sponsors box). It starts at 7pm and, as always, the first half hour is an open forum (i.e. anybody can attend). As unpalatable as it may be to some people, come along, have a say. There will be a director of the club in the room, you know... I'd like to think our fans representative will tell the rest of the board of directors in no uncertain terms that the fans DO NOT want to leave Oldham or indeed groundshare with anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yay for staying in a stadium that is crumbling and guaranteeing our eventual demise. Boo for trying anything else that might just keep the club going longer term. Yay for history, boo for future. Sometimes the kindest thing to do is take the old sheepdog out the back of the barn and put it out of its misery. Sometimes I don't half wish that if that day was to come then I hope it comes soon, this dangling is not doing anyone any good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsLee Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Yay for staying in a stadium that is crumbling and guaranteeing our eventual demise. Boo for trying anything else that might just keep the club going longer term. Yay for history, boo for future. Sometimes the kindest thing to do is take the old sheepdog out the back of the barn and put it out of its misery. Sometimes I don't half wish that if that day was to come then I hope it comes soon, this dangling is not doing anyone any good. Agree there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downender2 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 we have a dog...a sheepdog...?? whats his/her name..and is it on loan or on contract? didn't see anything on the official site about this... In PD we trust... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I asked a question, I'm genuinely interested in the answer and I'd appreciate it too. What I don't appreciate is being mouthed off at. If you can't answer, move away. Thanks. Apologies. I took this: I can't seem to find the actual figures. to be sarcasm. £200,000 acquired a 3% shareholding in Oldham Athletic (2004) AFC Limited and a seat on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Do we simply shrug our shoulders and let the rug be pulled from under is like ORLFC back in 1995 or do we let Simon Corney and OMBC know in no uncertain terms that leaving Boundary Park with little hope of a new stadium ANYWHERE is not acceptable under any circumstances? Do we wait until there's a supermarket etc on Boundary Park before we act or do we start writing letters and emails now? In the Summer of 2003 no matter how dire the situation was there was always hope, this time it looks bleak. The town sat back and allowed the Rugby club to die and even when they were given a second chance it was rejected mainly because nobody wanted to support a nomadic lower league team with little hope of getting back into SL or having their own home in the forseeable future. (Me included i'm sorry to say) The same will happen, people will simply walk away and leave what remains of the club to rot... I still genuinely don't understand the argument against redevelopment. There is 21 acres at Boundary Park according to some on here. A football pitch is c3 acres? The stands around the side are additional so lets say its 10 acres. This gives us 11 acres to sell for commercial or residential property. I would have thought this would give more than enough money for the equity needed to redevelop thr ground (albeit against a mortgage). The problem with this option is that it doesnt maximise return to the investors as they can only sell half the land. Yes it doesn't give the same return for them and the club as Failsworth but surely it can give some return and future. I'd love to be privy to the investment case for both.... Edited February 11, 2011 by latic12345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 I still don't understand, genuinely don't understand the argument against redevelopment. There is 21 acres at Boundary Park according to some on here. A football pitch is c3 acres? The stands around the side are additional so lets say its 10 acres. This gives us 11 acres to sell for commercial or residential property. I would have thought this would give more than enough money for the equity needed to redevelop thr ground (albeit against a mortgage). The problem with this option is that it doesnt maximise return to the investors as they can only sell half the land. Yes it doesn't give the same return for them and the club as Failsworth but surely it can give some return and future. I'd love to be privy to the investment case for both.... Go on then I'll say it….£££$$$$$$ A downright determination to claw something back from this mess that is mostly their own doing. BP could have been developed on a smaller scale, the hotel could still have been built, so could a gym etc… however what was central to the BP scheme was the profits from 600+ dwellings. That's where the bunce was to be made. BP in reality only ever needed one all singing all dancing stand with the required refurbishment here and there. The alarm bells rang for me when they wouldn't even replace a scoreboard that had served us so well for 16 years…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I still don't understand, genuinely don't understand the argument against redevelopment. There is 21 acres at Boundary Park according to some on here. A football pitch is c3 acres? The stands around the side are additional so lets say its 10 acres. This gives us 11 acres to sell for commercial or residential property. I would have thought this would give more than enough money for the equity needed to redevelop thr ground (albeit against a mortgage). The problem with this option is that it doesnt maximise return to the investors as they can only sell half the land. Yes it doesn't give the same return for them and the club as Failsworth but surely it can give some return and future. I'd love to be privy to the investment case for both.... You cannot get a mortgage on a football ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) You cannot get a mortgage on a football ground. That doesn't surprise me. However, if this is wholly true and cannot be done in any way, why are Arsenal paying repayments on the money they used to build the Emirates. Where and how did they get a loan from? Edited February 11, 2011 by latic12345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Go on then I'll say it….£££$$$$$$ A downright determination to claw something back from this mess that is mostly their own doing. BP could have been developed on a smaller scale, the hotel could still have been built, so could a gym etc… however what was central to the BP scheme was the profits from 600+ dwellings. That's where the bunce was to be made. BP in reality only ever needed one all singing all dancing stand with the required refurbishment here and there. The alarm bells rang for me when they wouldn't even replace a scoreboard that had served us so well for 16 years…. That can be the only reason. If they wanted a smaller return / recoup some losses, they would sell the surrounding land without knocking down BP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 You cannot get a mortgage on a football ground. Exactly….but 600+ dwellings + the land from the ground? Well….. So the land excluding BP was worth £18 million in July 2007, then came the crash and the value plummeted to £9 million. What's the land worth including BP????????? £14 million invested, I reckon the land inc BP is worth not far off £14 million!!!!!!!!- now where did Simon leave his horse? The sun's about to set….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That doesn't surprise me. However, if this is wholly true and cannot be done in any way, why are Arsenal paying repayments on the money they used to build the Emirates. Where and how did they get a loan from? I don't know what the situation is at Arsenal. Possibly personal guarantees which are byond question. The information will be 'out there', I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I don't know what the situation is at Arsenal. Possibly personal guarantees which are byond question. The information will be 'out there', I'm sure. I just dont believe that all stadiums are funded using cash. Wembley cost over £800m. The FA are still repaying it. They are quite open about that. You may not be able to borrow against the building of the stands, but you must be able to borrow something charged against the value of the land.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc-lover Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Exactly….but 600+ dwellings + the land from the ground? Well….. So the land excluding BP was worth £18 million in July 2007, then came the crash and the value plummeted to £9 million. What's the land worth including BP????????? £14 million invested, I reckon the land inc BP is worth not far off £14 million!!!!!!!!- now where did Simon leave his horse? The sun's about to set….. No matter how the past few years have been dressed up to look any other way by TTA,s , your comments on this thread are spot on Prozac, and the sooner us fans realise whats been going on all along the sooner we can direct our efforts to save our club in the right direction and at the right people!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 What are the chances of Arsenal or the FA being in existence in 10 years time? Pretty high I'd suggest. What are the chances of a club that has already come within a whisker of going out of business being there in 10 years time? Slim, I'd suggest. I'm sure the bankers would take this view of it and rightly turn down any mortgage application. Any sensible person would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latic12345 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) What are the chances of Arsenal or the FA being in existence in 10 years time? Pretty high I'd suggest. What are the chances of a club that has already come within a whisker of going out of business being there in 10 years time? Slim, I'd suggest. I'm sure the bankers would take this view of it and rightly turn down any mortgage application. Any sensible person would. That would depend on what business took on the loan. Would it be the freeholder of the residential / commercial property on the remainder of the land or the football club itself. Remember any development was intended to improve the financial strength of the club. This would be reflected in the loan application. Eventually, everyone will realise we are being shafted. Big time. And the reason why there was no plan B is because shafting us was plan B. Edited February 11, 2011 by latic12345 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 . Eventually, everyone will realise we are being shafted. Big time. And the reason why there was no plan B is because shafting us was plan B. I thinks that just about sums it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 That doesn't surprise me. However, if this is wholly true and cannot be done in any way, why are Arsenal paying repayments on the money they used to build the Emirates. Where and how did they get a loan from? That was a pre recession era. On that funding model, they would not be able to build it now I supect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshaw Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Exactly….but 600+ dwellings + the land from the ground? Well….. So the land excluding BP was worth £18 million in July 2007, then came the crash and the value plummeted to £9 million. What's the land worth including BP????????? £14 million invested, I reckon the land inc BP is worth not far off £14 million!!!!!!!!- now where did Simon leave his horse? The sun's about to set….. So, anybody in the wings wanting to buy the club, waits while the last minute, pays the going price for the lot, and the gamble to put houses on BP backfires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) I just dont believe that all stadiums are funded using cash. Wembley cost over £800m. The FA are still repaying it. They are quite open about that. You may not be able to borrow against the building of the stands, but you must be able to borrow something charged against the value of the land.... Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been out all day. Football clubs are on all (High Street) banks 'Restricted Appetitie' list. When I first joined HSBC Bank (Midland Bank then) in 1995, they were on the 'Limited Appetite' list, which meant that lending could take place under very strict criteria. Restricted appetite means no lending under any circumstances. With regard to mortgages against stadia, even where it is not the club that owns the land, banks won't lend. The reason for this is in 'realising (enforcing) the security'*. Because a football club is part of the community and a highly emotional topic (as we are seeing right now), the bank couldn't rely on being able to take possession of the land, in the event of default. The big clubs/Wembley probably go to the Private Banking sector and will also be able to put up very good personal guarantees. *Realising the security - In the event of prolonged defaullt on a loan secured against a property, when all other avenues have ben exhausted, a lender will look to repossess the property on which the loan is secured. In the same way that you hear stories of banks being unable to take possession of properties because there is a terminally ill child in the property etc, they feel that same inability when it comes to football clubs, so just don't do it. Edited February 11, 2011 by Takemeanywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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