Matt Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Coalition to set minimum alcohol price Coalition to set minimum alcohol price | Society | The Guardian http://bit.ly/GIJB7i Surely this can't be in reaction to binge drinking? I was under the impression that heavy drinking was a disease in the form of addiction borne from the behaviours of society. Put an average Brit youth in the most expensive city in the world and watch them get smashed. Although I welcome the government addressing the issue, raising the cost of alcohol isn't the answer to the problem the coalition are facing. That's just called raising money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 So how do we develop a more conservative and continental approach to alcohol? Scrap 24 hour opening? Education in the home and at schools? A glass of wine with Sunday lunch from age 5+? Price may be a small part of a more complex jigsaw for solving the problems of alcohol. On its own it will do nothing. So a tax raiser then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) So how do we develop a more conservative and continental approach to alcohol? Scrap 24 hour opening? Education in the home and at schools? A glass of wine with Sunday lunch from age 5+? Price may be a small part of a more complex jigsaw for solving the problems of alcohol. On its own it will do nothing. So a tax raiser then. The trouble is society has always rebelled against the things those in authority see as causing the socials ills, if it's illegal or bad for you people will want to do it even more. Smoking's bad for you, put the price up - people still buy fags. Ban it in enclosed public areas - some give up, most prefer to freeze their tits off. Let's educate everyone, the NHS have spunked millions on a smoking cessation service has it worked? The wife thinks not. Royal Oldham Hospital grounds no smoking area, difficult to implement so you have smokers in front of the main entrance, patients attached to drips sparking up. Even more heart-breaking is go to Christies and the poor buggers there are puffing away outside of there too. Go to any school, it's driven home in PSHE lessons, health and social care lessons, assemblies etc but when kids go home and see their parents at it or their favourite pop star or their mates they do it as well. Before long they're hooked. The government could ban smoking completely, but they won't tobacco conglomerates are too influential and any ban would leave a huge hole in the Government's budget from lost duty revenues. The EU could ban it, you struggle to find anywhere in Europe where you can smoke indoors - except ironically a room within the European Parliament! Drugs - Drugs has always been a problem in society, but the driving of drugs underground through the various legislation passed in the 1960s has seen the problem reach epidemic levels. 30 years ago cannabis and cocaine were seen as unacceptable drugs, gradually they have become not only recreational but an essential part of a night out or night in for many. That's unacceptable, when society feels like it simply walk down the street smoking a fat one, something is seriously wrong. I have known 15 and 16 year olds hooked on 'weed' unable to function without it. WTF has society come to? As for alcohol, minimum unit pricing will not make much of an difference. I'm not sure if bulk deals will be available, but Super Markets and brewing conglomerates will get round it. If it prices kids out of buying alcohol then so be it, but kids are nothing if resourceful and will simply pool their cash and share that crate of lager, the bottle of cider etc…. The scrotiest of society that this aims to challenge will do the same. The alcoholics are deemed disabled and get money from the state to help with their illness (I :censored: you not!) so they'll be able to carry on obliterating their liver no matter what the minimum pricing is. Binge drinking 20 years ago was described as a ':censored:ing good night out', the whole of society is being pigeon holed. I mostly have one good session a week, some weeks I simply don't bother the resources and policy should be aimed at underage drinking and those that sit at home on benefits supping themselves stupid. This policy hurts everyone, I regard myself as a (mostly) responsible drinker, I don't drink that much in the house as I prefer to be in a social environment, I don't smoke - although I like a good takeaway. I've waffled on a bit, but the crux of my point is that if you make something harder to do, you will drive it underground. We will see more bootleg booze, homebrew, illegal imports. People will find a way. Just look at Prohibition in 20's America. Raising the smoking age to 18 has had a bit of an effect but if kids want to smoke they will do, however like much America I think the minimum age for drinking should be 21 (25 in the worst areas) with a nationally approved ID/drinking license scheme, no ID no booze. If you have a conviction related to booze, you have your ID revoked and can't buy it. For a set period of time. Anyone found to buying for kids or anyone banned loses their ID too. And if you like tucking your socks into your trackies and own a pitbull and like chunky jewellery you will never gain a drinking license! Edited March 23, 2012 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I think this has some good elements regarding kids... When I was a kid and wanted to get out of my face on a friday / Saturday night I would go to the local shop and the options was... White Lightning - £1.25 a bottle Four cans of lager - £4 / £5 I had no money really... but could afford two bottles of White Lightning and a I drunk it because it was cheap as :censored: and would get me drunk. How :censored:ing depressing is that. As a 14 / 15 year old... My weekend was drinking White Lightning on the streets... God that is :censored:e... Anyway my point is... I couldn't afford the lager... If this minimum pricing was brought in back when I was a kid I would of been priced out of buying it. I don't know how much this stacks up with todays kids but I can see the benefits looking back at my own childhood. Regarding older people.. 16 +... Well you can't do much about that... Better education would help... Which leads me to this point! When I was 13 my dad would take me to the pub for a pint (more as I got older - with the Landlords blessing). Learn't me a lot about drinking and I never got into trouble when I started drinking in pubs on my own. You can't do that now. Edited March 23, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pukka Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I watched a show a while ago on the history of Britain. It arguied that British culture has always had been a heavydrinking culture. Shakespeare's plays often had scenes of drunken behaviour. There were riots in the "ol ale house" and it's always gone on. There was a window after the 2nd world war when this didn't happen, due to a lack of disposable income and just not feeling the need. As disposable income increased and the influence of the older war veterans became less, we reverted back to type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) I think this has some good elements regarding kids... When I was a kid and wanted to get out of my face on a friday / Saturday night I would go to the local shop and the options was... White Lightning - £1.25 a bottle Four cans of lager - £4 / £5 I had no money really... but could afford two bottles of White Lightning and a I drunk it because it was cheap as :censored: and would get me drunk. How :censored:ing depressing is that. As a 14 / 15 year old... My weekend was drinking White Lightning on the streets... God that is :censored:e... Anyway my point is... I couldn't afford the lager... If this minimum pricing was brought in back when I was a kid I would of been priced out of buying it. I don't know how much this stacks up with todays kids but I can see the benefits looking back at my own childhood. Regarding older people.. 16 +... Well you can't do much about that... Better education would help... Which leads me to this point! When I was 13 my dad would take me to the pub for a pint (more as I got older - with the Landlords blessing). Learn't me a lot about drinking and I never got into trouble when I started drinking in pubs on my own. You can't do that now. Unless you were a loner though, would you not simply have pooled your resources like kids do now, for alcohol, fags and weed? There'll always be a way. Hammering the irresponsible off-licences with immediate closure - one strike and you're out would help too. I do think there's legs in a National ID scheme to buy alcohol. If the Government are serious in stopping anti-social behaviour linked to binge drinking then drastic action needs to be taken. Being able to drink alcohol and cause havoc with no responsibility for your actions should not be a God-given right, you don't have a god-given right to drive without a license, to fish, own a gun and other activities. Why should drinking be any different when it can ruin lives and costs billions in resources that could be used elsewhere? I was 15 when my step-dad took me to the pub, pints of lager shandy, halves then pints over a couple of years. I never did the street boozing thing but I have always known my limits and touch wood and never been involved in alcohol related anti-social behaviour. I'll do the same with my kids, if they see responsible drinking and are treated responsibly hopefully they'll learn their own limits and not over do it. Edited March 23, 2012 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The licensing hours brought in during the first world war haven't helped over recent years either. The 11pm closing time did lead to a rush to get pished, horizontal drinking hasn't helped either. I fully support 24 hour drinking but accept we have a world of pain to go through whilst we undergo the generational shift required to see the benefits, kids today being brought up without the 11pm closing time and having to rush the booze down their necks will not have the same race to get drunk, it is a cultural change that is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) was 15 when my step-dad took me to the pub, pints of lager shandy, halves then pints over a couple of years. I never did the street boozing thing but I have always known my limits and touch wood and never been involved in alcohol related anti-social behaviour. I'll do the same with my kids, if they see responsible drinking and are treated responsibly hopefully they'll learn their own limits and not over do it. Its very difficult to find a pub who will allow you those boundaries these days... But yes, that is key to this whole thing... Education But the kids causing problems tend to have parents who are :censored:e and not interested to be frank... Edited March 23, 2012 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Unless you were a loner though, would you not simply have pooled your resources like kids do now, for alcohol, fags and weed? Aye... but of course that does result in some limits of course... I don't think this change is going to do anything to cost of normal drinking to be frank. Its only going to affect "white cider" and such like... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The licensing hours brought in during the first world war haven't helped over recent years either. The 11pm closing time did lead to a rush to get pished, horizontal drinking hasn't helped either. I fully support 24 hour drinking but accept we have a world of pain to go through whilst we undergo the generational shift required to see the benefits, kids today being brought up without the 11pm closing time and having to rush the booze down their necks will not have the same race to get drunk, it is a cultural change that is required. Agreed... I can stay in manchester until 12pm, still having a nice drink... Going back 15 years it would of been a war zone come 12pm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Plus, when you go abroad lots of other places are open into the wee hours, here, the only things that are open are places that sell booze so the only people who are about are fellow booze hounds, some less able to take a drink than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Plus, when you go abroad lots of other places are open into the wee hours, here, the only things that are open are places that sell booze so the only people who are about are fellow booze hounds, some less able to take a drink than others. I think is where its going to take a generation to make real change... I have noticed more restaurants staying open longer... Cinemas staying open longer and so on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Meh. Won't affect anything bought in a pub, club, bar or restaurant. Won't affect most bottles of wine bought singularly. Top brand spirits will probably be OK if bought singularly (Grants and supermarket own will become more expensive). The thing it will hit the most is supermarket bought beer/cider. Pre loading will still happen (if it costs £3 for your drink in a club but you can drink it at home for £1 you are still going to drink at home for a bit). Supermarkets don't make much money on booze- most use it as loss leaders. Pubs will do well out of this, Offys wont. The other thing about drinking in pubs is that the time to actually get your drink is much longer, so you drink less. This will ease one type of anti social drinking (teenagers in parks) but so would the Australian system of heavy fines for the drinker, the server and the owner of the establishment concerned. The moment someone turns up at A+E with acute drink related health issues it costs more money than the drink made. One consequence if this is that for the South of England it now become more practical to go on booze runs to the continent. But as the government makes 80p per litre if petrol perhaps its a cunning plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 One consequence if this is that for the South of England it now become more practical to go on booze runs to the continent. But as the government makes 80p per litre if petrol perhaps its a cunning plan. I hadn't thought about the petrol element, they really do get you every which way. But this is a key point, one thing that this will not do is raise tax revenue. The inflated taxes on beer and especially tobacco already cost the Government billions as people resort to time honoured measures (ie smuggling) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Home brewing is where its at Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Home brewing is where its at Touche to that!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I hadn't thought about the petrol element, they really do get you every which way. But this is a key point, one thing that this will not do is raise tax revenue. The inflated taxes on beer and especially tobacco already cost the Government billions as people resort to time honoured measures (ie smuggling) Actually it will, not excise duty but VAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Actually it will, not excise duty but VAT. I suppose that they will still get the excise on some of the smuggled beer sold through off licenses (a lot of it, I believe) but none on the stuff knocked out privvately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.