Too early......

[Midsblue]

...to try and secure Derbyshire and Baxter until end of season?

 

Quality's quality and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that the inclusion of these two over the rest of the season would have a massive impact on our fortunes. People are slating Simpson but he too is quality - unsure if its complacency or just the fact he hasnt clicked with the formation - but now with these two, we have options and this will give him the kick up the 'arris he needs. I'd even try to squeeze all three into a front three but where then does Croft sit (and Montano)? We could always invert the pyramid and try a front five with Wes and Furman as a sitting two and then the blend of an attack-minded quintet. Discipline on the training ground to understand who goes where when attacking and defending but could provide the most exciting, entertaining and attacking play we've ever seen at BP. 4-3, 8-5, 7-1 scorelines each game like under Big Joe!

 

I've kept quiet last week when both were announced but signing both is a real coup regardless of how they've fared prior to coming to us.

 

Ladies and gentleman, we now have the catalyst in our side....can SC & PD keep them?

[Twisbrogan]

Can't see Derbyshire being a season- long deal. He's apparently on mega-bucks at Forest so even the next month will have been heavily subsidised. I think the best we could hope for there would be an extra month or so before he moves to another Championship club in January.

[oafc1955]

...to try and secure Derbyshire and Baxter until end of season?

 

Quality's quality and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realise that the inclusion of these two over the rest of the season would have a massive impact on our fortunes. People are slating Simpson but he too is quality - unsure if its complacency or just the fact he hasnt clicked with the formation - but now with these two, we have options and this will give him the kick up the 'arris he needs. I'd even try to squeeze all three into a front three but where then does Croft sit (and Montano)? We could always invert the pyramid and try a front five with Wes and Furman as a sitting two and then the blend of an attack-minded quintet. Discipline on the training ground to understand who goes where when attacking and defending but could provide the most exciting, entertaining and attacking play we've ever seen at BP. 4-3, 8-5, 7-1 scorelines each game like under Big Joe!

 

I've kept quiet last week when both were announced but signing both is a real coup regardless of how they've fared prior to coming to us.

 

Ladies and gentleman, we now have the catalyst in our side....can SC & PD keep them?

 

Baxter is a free agent so if we could peruade him to stay then great but if he continues to peform like yesterday he will not be short of admirers come January. I think we will have to get him on a longer contract sooner rather than later..........signing Derbyshire will be more of a challenge, I don't think emergency loans can be extended to the end of the season ( can somebody confirm? ) and then there is the small problem of wages as he's reportedly on a fair wedge at Forest!

[rudemedic]

Baxter- I said in another thread that we should be looking to extend his deal until the end of the season. OK it was only one game but that was a player with little match-fitness who looked above what we have. He is only a young lad and whilst he has shown a lot of pedigree at Everton it obviously was not enough. If he keeps playing like he did yesterday he will have better offers than we can give him waiting in January, when his current contract runs out. We will struggle to keep him. As he is a young lad and if we offer him a written contract with the same terms we would be due some compo if he moves club. However, any compo we will get is going to be a larger sum if he spends 9 months on our books than 4.

 

Derbyshire- He looked good, judging by the comments of Forest fans online they don't rate him. I think the rule is you can extend an emergency loan for a maximum of 3 months (with the consent of the parent club of course). If at the end of the 3 months you want to keep the player, then your options are either:

1.) Wait until the next transfer window opens and get a loan until the end of the season.

2.) The parent club pays the player off- and you give him a contract. We did this with Simpson and Feeney last year, where we were the new club and the parent club respectively.

The big stumbling block with either option is Derbyshire's supposedly huge earnings. We can't afford to pay him a big percentage of his wages and others who could be interested may be able.

[Bristolatic]

The big stumbling block with either option is Derbyshire's supposedly huge earnings. We can't afford to pay him a big percentage of his wages and others who could be interested may be able.

Perhaps this is why he's only on a short term loan, which I believe can only be extended to 93 days. I think it's more than likely that we just simply couldn't afford to take him for any longer, unless Forest were going to pay at least 95% of his wages, which IMO is unlikely for a long term loan.

[bowl]

Derby pay 6K of Lee Croft's 7K a week wage so it's not out of the question for Forest to do similar with Derbyshire.

[RobOAFC]

Perhaps this is why he's only on a short term loan, which I believe can only be extended to 93 days. I think it's more than likely that we just simply couldn't afford to take him for any longer, unless Forest were going to pay at least 95% of his wages, which IMO is unlikely for a long term loan.

 

Rumoured that he's on £16k a week at Forest..

If true, the max I could see Corney managing to find is 20% of that IF he is scoring quite a few for us..

Edited September 16, 2012 by RobOAFC

[BP1960]

Baxter- I said in another thread that we should be looking to extend his deal until the end of the season. OK it was only one game but that was a player with little match-fitness who looked above what we have. He is only a young lad and whilst he has shown a lot of pedigree at Everton it obviously was not enough. If he keeps playing like he did yesterday he will have better offers than we can give him waiting in January, when his current contract runs out. We will struggle to keep him. As he is a young lad and if we offer him a written contract with the same terms we would be due some compo if he moves club. However, any compo we will get is going to be a larger sum if he spends 9 months on our books than 4.

 

Derbyshire- He looked good, judging by the comments of Forest fans online they don't rate him. I think the rule is you can extend an emergency loan for a maximum of 3 months (with the consent of the parent club of course). If at the end of the 3 months you want to keep the player, then your options are either:

1.) Wait until the next transfer window opens and get a loan until the end of the season.

2.) The parent club pays the player off- and you give him a contract. We did this with Simpson and Feeney last year, where we were the new club and the parent club respectively.

The big stumbling block with either option is Derbyshire's supposedly huge earnings. We can't afford to pay him a big percentage of his wages and others who could be interested may be able.

Rumoured that he's on £16k a week at Forest..

If true, the max I could see Corney managing to find is 20% of that IF he is scoring quite a few for us..

 

To offset this Latics could send 3 or 4 of the fringe players out on loan such as Taylor, Mellor, Millar, Winchester, Hughes, Jacob and Belezika, with immediate recall clauses if needed, this would take a little off the wagebill,

Edited September 16, 2012 by BP1960

[opinions4u]

 

 

To offset this Latics could send 3 or 4 of the fringe players out on loan such as Taylor, Mellor, Millar, Winchester, Hughes, Jacob and Belezika, with immediate recall clauses if needed, this would take a little off the wagebill,

 

You cannot recall an outfield player from a loan and then play him yourself during the original loan period.

 

The only exception is a season long loan which can be cut short during the transfer window.

 

Oops.

Edited September 16, 2012 by opinions4u

[RobOAFC]

To offset this Latics could send 3 or 4 of the fringe players out on loan such as Taylor, Mellor, Millar, Winchester, Hughes, Jacob and Belezika, with immediate recall clauses if needed, this would take a little off the wagebill,

 

Depends how the squad is in january.. If we still have Wabara, then Belezika can go on loan as Tarky would be covering Bryne and M'voto in CB. If not, then Bryne would be covering for RB and one injury to either Brown or a CB and we're short in the deparment. If we can keep Derbyshire and Baxter than Taylor can go on loan as we'd have Derbyshire Baxter Simpson and Simpson for strikers. Two wingers on there in Millar and Hughes, need to keep at least one for cover which would be Hughes so Millar can go on loan. Leaves Winchester and Mellor, both CM's who can play CM and then cover RB/LB RW/LW and in Mellor's case CB aswell. Ideally would be to send Taylor, Millar, Winchester, Belezika and Jacob on loan. Keep Mellor and Hughes as cover, and perhaps Millar or Winchester just incase of injuries. Winchester more likely to be kept from the two as he can cover more positions..

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

You cannot recall an outfield player from a loan and then play him yourself during the original loan period.

 

The only exception is a season long loan which can be cut short during the transfer window.

 

You can't during the 1st month but in months 2 & 3 you can insert a (24 hour) recall clause.

[opinions4u]

 

 

You can't during the 1st month but in months 2 & 3 you can insert a (24 hour) recall clause.

 

But, unless I've got myself lost in Football League small print (which is more than possible), it can only apply during the transfer window.

 

(I'd hate to have been pedalling a myth on this!)

Edited September 16, 2012 by opinions4u

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

But, unless I've got myself lost in Football League small print (which is more than possible), it can only apply during the transfer window.

 

I don't think so. Basically Derbyshire's loan is classed as an emergency loan. During the 1st month of an emergency loan you cannot insert a recall clause. However from days 32-93 you can irrespective of whether it carries into the transfer window. The only way you can then extend a loan beyond the 93 days is durring the January window take out a 1/2 season loan.

 

The Simpson Loan last season was initially extended to the full 93 days but we couldn't extend to cover the period to 31st December as the loan was started outside the transfer window. We then took a half season loan from 2nd January.

 

Basically if we were to loan out any of our players we cannot recall them during the 1st month and could only recall them thereafter if we have a recall clause. I'm not sure how the 1/2 season loan recalls work as Slew was recalled last Thursday just after the initial month had expired. I don't know if he could have been recalled before that.

[opinions4u]

I think the Slew "recall" is on the basis he won't play for Blackburn until January. If he did they're breaking the rules.

 

Here's the link to the rules. It does look like my first statement is partially wrong.

 

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-6-players_2293633_2125731

 

Reading sections 52-54 I can't see how any recall can happen outside a transfer window that allows the player to return and play for the parent club. Unless they're a goalkeeper.

Edited September 16, 2012 by opinions4u

[BP1960]

I don't think so. Basically Derbyshire's loan is classed as an emergency loan. During the 1st month of an emergency loan you cannot insert a recall clause. However from days 32-93 you can irrespective of whether it carries into the transfer window. The only way you can then extend a loan beyond the 93 days is durring the January window take out a 1/2 season loan.

 

The Simpson Loan last season was initially extended to the full 93 days but we couldn't extend to cover the period to 31st December as the loan was started outside the transfer window. We then took a half season loan from 2nd January.

 

Basically if we were to loan out any of our players we cannot recall them during the 1st month and could only recall them thereafter if we have a recall clause. I'm not sure how the 1/2 season loan recalls work as Slew was recalled last Thursday just after the initial month had expired. I don't know if he could have been recalled before that.

 

So the answer would be to send out 3 or 4 of our players on loan with no recall, and in emergency sign players on loan from other clubs ?

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

I think the Slew "recall" is on the basis he won't play for Blackburn until January. If he did they're breaking the rules.

 

Here's the link to the rules. It does look like my first statement is partially wrong.

 

http://www.football-...2293633_2125731

 

Reading sections 52-54 I can't see how any recall can happen outside a transfer window that allows the player to return and play for the parent club. Unless they're a goalkeeper.

 

I think the relevant section is the following: -

 

53.3.8 Emergency Loans and Youth Loans may contain a break clause but only where that break clause is exercisable after the expiry of the initial 28 day period of the loan.

[opinions4u]

 

 

I think the relevant section is the following: -

 

53.3.8 Emergency Loans and Youth Loans may contain a break clause but only where that break clause is exercisable after the expiry of the initial 28 day period of the loan.

 

Rather leaps out when you put it like that . Cheers for putting me right.

 

Doesn't apply to Slew though .

[Harry Dowds Green Shirt]

Rather leaps out when you put it like that . Cheers for putting me right.

 

Doesn't apply to Slew though .

 

 

Slew's loan is covered by section 53.2.1 as highlighted in bold

 

53.2.1 Subject to the proviso that the duration of a Standard Loan must be the time between two Transfer Windows, Standard Loans can be for half a Season or a full Season. Any recall clause requiring the early termination of a Standard Loan can only be included in a full Season Standard Loan and this can only be activated during the second (January) Transfer Window. Any other early termination of a Standard Loan must be by way of a mutual agreement in writing (including by way of a recall clause within the Standard Loan Agreement) between both Clubs and the Player but can only be completed after the expiry of 28 days and only during a Transfer Window (but subject to Regulation 53.2.2 below).

 

Edit: So Slew can go back but can't play for Rovers until 1st January is my reading. However as he will be out for 12 weeks anyway he wouldn't be playing in any event.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Harry Dowds Green Shirt

[opinions4u]

 

 

 

Slew's loan is covered by section 53.2.1 as highlighted in bold

 

53.2.1 Subject to the proviso that the duration of a Standard Loan must be the time between two Transfer Windows, Standard Loans can be for half a Season or a full Season. Any recall clause requiring the early termination of a Standard Loan can only be included in a full Season Standard Loan and this can only be activated during the second (January) Transfer Window. Any other early termination of a Standard Loan must be by way of a mutual agreement in writing (including by way of a recall clause within the Standard Loan Agreement) between both Clubs and the Player but can only be completed after the expiry of 28 days and only during a Transfer Window (but subject to Regulation 53.2.2 below).

 

Edit: So Slew can go back but can't play for Rovers until 1st January is my reading. However as he will be out for 12 weeks anyway he wouldn't be playing in any event.

 

Christ I've had a bad time with this.

 

Apologies to all who I've misled!