shefflatic Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Firstly, let me saw how abject that first half was - the whole team was Kieron (Dyer i.e. :censored: for those not catching on!) - but the central midfield performance gave ameteurs a bad name - ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC! All scunnys movement and goal and chances came from our midfield two YET again holding the space and not being on the backs of their man, which you are taught aged seven 'go with the man'. When on the pitch watching the game in front of you, you can see where a pass is going to purely by the body shape of the said player with the ball, yet we arrive ten minutes after the pass is made in attempting to close someone down - be there in the first place and the goal and chances don't happen, simple. I have just never seen a pair of central midfielders so static in all my time watching us (15 or so years) and my we have had some :censored:e, but these 2 take the biscuit in so far as how they play; may as well not be on the pitch after tonights showing. OK, so they may be being told by PD to keep shape, thats fine, but that don't stop them anticipating where a pass is going, getting in there before another player gets is and making runs or bursts forward - midfielders defend AND attack you know lads - if PD don't like it tell him where to go! An absolute disgrace. HOWEVER................................ I got ridiculed for this on saturday, but my god PD may actually have a tactical brain afterall. As soon as he took Wes off, be it tiredness whatever, we looked a far better attacking proposition and our shape was not affected - Furman sat to mop up, Baxter was alongside and as soon as we got the ball forward he was in the holes and space picking up second balls and playing the wingers and strikers in. He also gets the ball central and carries it forward as opposed to standing still - EXACTLY what we have been crying out for. The fullbacks pushed on on both sides and Montano (MOTM along with Mvoto again) and Croft both attacked with more purpose with Baxter threading things through. Again i am judging players on how the team plays best with who we have got and do not accept any of this 'oooh he's our captain he can't be dropped' :censored:e - be ruthless Paul!! Both were :censored:e tonight but Wes can be excused for being not match fit and on a yellow. It is either Wes or Furman in the middle, Baxter in front of them with Simpson dropping back to help when the team is defending, then going to a 2 up top quickly when Baxter and wingers break forward. Team from now on please PD (finally...) GK Wabara Byrne Mvoto Grounds Croft Furman/Wes Montano Baxter Simpson Derbyshire Please DO NOT ever play Wes and Furman in the same team again Paul UNLESS Furman is played behind the front two as a prominent attacking midfielder and not another static, non-descript midfielder. Through balls and crosses for the front were far more frequent with the team above and we looked so much more of a threat purely by the fact that Baxter simply stood a few feet further forward from Furman when we were in their half - WOW Its staring you in the face Paul - please do it again and STICK WITH IT Edited September 18, 2012 by shefflatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Tactics spot on second half, it's up to the players to take the chances. He's getting there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) He won't change his beloved 2 holding midfielders and I'm afraid home form will remain the same unless he abandons this system. Edited September 18, 2012 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Now you see, I happen to think the Furman / Wes combo is the best CM partnership we've had in years & years..... game of opinions isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 We start with that team away from home and against some of the better sides at home we will get beaten an awful lot. We might win a few more games but we will loose a lot more, its too weak defensively. If at home if we are against the weaker 2/3rds of this division, that side could be very effective. Against teams in the top third at home and everyone away it would be a good attacking change if required as it would often be more effective than Dickovs usual first attack substitution which normally reverts to 433 or 3412. Dave Jones showed that he was loosing 2-0 and was getting spanked especially in midfield so he took a forward off, bought a midfielder on and went from a 442 (diamond) to a 4141. The extra man in midfield changed the game. I'm a big fan of having a core of around 14 players who if all fit you pick a team from to give the best chance of a good result from. At the moment that will sometimes be the team that finished tonight but it won't always be the case. Sometimes it will be the team that started tonight and sometimes it will be the 4231 (with either Simpson or Baxter as the middle of the 3). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shefflatic Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) We start with that team away from home and against some of the better sides at home we will get beaten an awful lot. We might win a few more games but we will loose a lot more, its too weak defensively. If at home if we are against the weaker 2/3rds of this division, that side could be very effective. Against teams in the top third at home and everyone away it would be a good attacking change if required as it would often be more effective than Dickovs usual first attack substitution which normally reverts to 433 or 3412. Dave Jones showed that he was loosing 2-0 and was getting spanked especially in midfield so he took a forward off, bought a midfielder on and went from a 442 (diamond) to a 4141. The extra man in midfield changed the game. I'm a big fan of having a core of around 14 players who if all fit you pick a team from to give the best chance of a good result from. At the moment that will sometimes be the team that finished tonight but it won't always be the case. Sometimes it will be the team that started tonight and sometimes it will be the 4231 (with either Simpson or Baxter as the middle of the 3). How can you say 'too weak defensively'?! our CM's cannot get any more defensive!! we need to ATTACK teams and impose us on them at home - give me attacking midfielder in Baxter and a holder in Wes or Furman with the chance of being caught out the odd time anyday of the week - thats why Baxter and Simpson drop back when we defend and break on attack, which Baxter can do unlike the present two flowerpot men. Milligan and Henry weren't all attacking, but from videos and reports they were both up and down the pitch helping the attackers and bagging a fair few goals - these two wouldn't look out of place at Madame Tusauds!! It's one or the other for me with Baxter, end of. Away from home your theory may be correct but not at home, no way. Edited September 18, 2012 by shefflatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) Now you see, I happen to think the Furman / Wes combo is the best CM partnership we've had in years & years..... game of opinions isn't it? I thought Baxter was less influential playing in the deeper role. I think the comparison for me is against Saturday - we looked more likely to score after he came on. Last night, I thought we were much the same once he appeared. That's not knocking the lad. I just think, like you, Wes / Furman is more important. Baxter and Derbyshire up front please. Simpson first change. Edited September 19, 2012 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I thought Baxter was less influential playing in the deeper role. I think the comparison for me is against Saturday - we looked more likely to score after he came on. Last night, I thought we were much the same once he appeared. That's not knocking the lad. I just think, like you, Wes / Furman is more important. Baxter and Derbyshire up front please. Simpson first change. Have to disagree on this one, 2 holding midfielders at home is negative, much better when Baxter came on playing much further forward than Wesolowski, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losesome Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Remember that as well as Wes not being 100% fit , Furman has just played 2 games - one in Brazil and the other in South Africa . Plus the round trip there and back plus he played Saturday !!!! When they both play Wes has to be the defending player and Furman pushed up to support the front players. Playing both isn't negative unless they are instructed to sit back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shefflatic Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 its one of two things - being speficially told to hang back - which PD alluded to post-match as 'we do a lot of work on getting our distances right' or that Furman is too thick to know that he should get for forward, being a midfielder and all. :censored: getting our distances right - mark the oppositon player in your position, follow him towards our goal when he attacks and stay with him then run the other way like roadrunner when we attack the other way. Our lack of forward tempo, thought and mobility is directly caused by these 2 players - whichever way you look at it not one of them gets forward during a game and neither can be seen to be the attacking one in the pair. As stated previously - Furman gets forward and is clearly an attacking midfielder ie positions himself in between Wes and the strikers, not simply making a late dash forward as momentum is lost by that point - or Furman drops out and Baxter plays in that role. He doesn't need telling what to do or where to be when we don't have the ball - as soon as he came on he went into that gap behind the strikers and dropped into the holes of space when we had the ball elsewhere and was that link man in the oppos half. PD to sort it and the players have to know themselves what to do - christ they've been doing it since the age of seven and if they don't know by now then there's no hope. Too much tactical bull:censored: in the game nowadays 'get your distances right' 'hold' etc etc. The phrase 'box-to-box midfielder' could not be more ironic if we tried.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 the whole team was Kieron (Dyer i.e. :censored: for those not catching on!) Think that might catch on, mate. Nice one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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