Dave_Og Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 As Mvoto was about to be sent off for slapping (Oooh get you) McFadzean before he launched Alexander into orbit (...) he's probably guilty of two red card offences. Probably one occasion when not being in the premiership plays to smaller clubs' advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 As Mvoto was about to be sent off for slapping (Oooh get you) McFadzean before he launched Alexander into orbit (...) he's probably guilty of two red card offences. Probably one occasion when not being in the premiership plays to smaller clubs' advantage. I don't agree. The 1st incident sees JYM pushing his arm out to the palyer as he walks towards him, more in a protective mode. He may catch him around the neck and to be fair to the Crawley player he doesn't over react. Yellow at most especially as the Crawley player also gets a yellow for aggressive behaviour. The 2nd incident is clearly a push to the chest and therefore is a yellow card offence and not a straight red. A raised hand to the face is a staright red, below the face a yellow. So he should and would have gone in any event, however because of the way the ref sees it he gets a 3 game ban instead of 1. Would love to see Paul Scholes do that at OT and see if he got a straight red. Probably not with Clattenberg or Webb in charge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't agree. The 1st incident sees JYM pushing his arm out to the palyer as he walks towards him, more in a protective mode. He may catch him around the neck and to be fair to the Crawley player he doesn't over react. Yellow at most especially as the Crawley player also gets a yellow for aggressive behaviour. The 2nd incident is clearly a push to the chest and therefore is a yellow card offence and not a straight red. A raised hand to the face is a staright red, below the face a yellow. So he should and would have gone in any event, however because of the way the ref sees it he gets a 3 game ban instead of 1. Would love to see Paul Scholes do that at OT and see if he got a straight red. Probably not with Clattenberg or Webb in charge Stand to be corrected but I don't think the rules differentiate betwen anythmng above or below neck level. If the ref decides it is violent conduct then that's his call and while a red for te first incident might have been harsh it wouldn't necessarily have been wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I don't agree. The 1st incident sees JYM pushing his arm out to the palyer as he walks towards him, more in a protective mode. He may catch him around the neck and to be fair to the Crawley player he doesn't over react. Yellow at most especially as the Crawley player also gets a yellow for aggressive behaviour. The 2nd incident is clearly a push to the chest and therefore is a yellow card offence and not a straight red. A raised hand to the face is a staright red, below the face a yellow. So he should and would have gone in any event, however because of the way the ref sees it he gets a 3 game ban instead of 1. Would love to see Paul Scholes do that at OT and see if he got a straight red. Probably not with Clattenberg or Webb in charge Ignoring the ridiculous comment at the end, both were blatant textbook Violent Conduct. Granted their lad who pushed M'Voto should have seen yellow for Unsporting, but there's no argument that M'Voto deserves whatever comes his way, it was idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Stand to be corrected but I don't think the rules differentiate betwen anythmng above or below neck level. If the ref decides it is violent conduct then that's his call and while a red for te first incident might have been harsh it wouldn't necessarily have been wrong. I also stand to be corrected, but I've seen enough of Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports news and this has been raised before with him and his view was a palming off with the hand below the head was not automatically classed as violent conduct, but to the head is. When I heard his interpretaion of that my mind shot back to the Rick Holden sending off in the incident with Lee Dixon and on that basis Rick shouldn't have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4froale Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 was a straight red card no doubt about it, foolish behaviour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsChris Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I also stand to be corrected, but I've seen enough of Dermot Gallagher on Sky Sports news and this has been raised before with him and his view was a palming off with the hand below the head was not automatically classed as violent conduct, but to the head is. When I heard his interpretaion of that my mind shot back to the Rick Holden sending off in the incident with Lee Dixon and on that basis Rick shouldn't have gone. One has to be careful though not to confuse the laws with the phrases Gallagher (or anyone else) might use to demonstrate how he would apply those laws. There is nothing in the laws to differentiate between body parts nor is there anything about 'raised hands'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ignoring the ridiculous comment at the end, both were blatant textbook Violent Conduct. Granted their lad who pushed M'Voto should have seen yellow for Unsporting, but there's no argument that M'Voto deserves whatever comes his way, it was idiotic. Please explain "both were blatant textbook violent conduct" followed by "Granted their lad pushed M'Voto." Off what I saw on the day and what you see on the TV JYM "pushed" Alexander in teh 2nd incident. You call this blatant textbook Violent Conduct" yet you accept that their player "pushed" JYM and should have seen yellow. If they are both pushes why in your view 1 blatant textbook violent conduct and the other a yellow card offence. The only difference I can see is that JYM didn't throw himself to the floor when he was pushed. All you ask for is consistence from referees. I said in the post above that he deserved to go. I just think that it shouldn't have been a straight red but 2 yellows. Also can you explain what is ridiculous about the comment at the end? It is a genuine question asking if the same incident happended at a particular ground with a certain player do you think we would get a consistency of decision I Chose Paul Scholes and OT but I could have said Steve G and Anfield. Based on what I witnessed yesterday with Clatterburg I doubt you would see the same decesion. There again with Clatterburg he would probably have sent off the player that got pushed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBlue Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) I find it sad that we're all accepting that M'voto's first offence was definitely a red card. Confirms that football in general is so petty at the moment and we, as fans, are allowing it to progress to this farcical stage where putting your hand on an opponents face is seen to be a straight red card, which shares the same punishment as a two-footed, leg-breaking lunge to the shins. Matches are ruined because of red cards and they're handed out so nonchalently, with no consideration about how the match will be spolit by such an insignificant action. I'm not saying let players have punch-ups and brawls every game without consequence, but we must be able to overlook a tap to the face like M'Voto did as part of competitive sport. Edited October 29, 2012 by NewBlue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'd hand at least 6 reds a game out for pulling and pushing at corners. Apparently an autoatic yellow anywhere else on the pitch as in the Villa player's 2nd yellow = red on Saturday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Please explain "both were blatant textbook violent conduct" followed by "Granted their lad pushed M'Voto." Off what I saw on the day and what you see on the TV JYM "pushed" Alexander in teh 2nd incident. You call this blatant textbook Violent Conduct" yet you accept that their player "pushed" JYM and should have seen yellow. If they are both pushes why in your view 1 blatant textbook violent conduct and the other a yellow card offence. The only difference I can see is that JYM didn't throw himself to the floor when he was pushed. All you ask for is consistence from referees. I said in the post above that he deserved to go. I just think that it shouldn't have been a straight red but 2 yellows. Also can you explain what is ridiculous about the comment at the end? It is a genuine question asking if the same incident happended at a particular ground with a certain player do you think we would get a consistency of decision I Chose Paul Scholes and OT but I could have said Steve G and Anfield. Based on what I witnessed yesterday with Clatterburg I doubt you would see the same decesion. There again with Clatterburg he would probably have sent off the player that got pushed. Ok just seen it again, you have a point about the second one - the first was a swing to the face which is undoubtedly VC (A player is guilty of violent conduct if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball.), the second would be a booking for USB which their lad should have had as well. Frankly the last thing you could possibly want from referees is consistency. The only possible way for us to be consistent would be to apply every single Law to the letter, which would end up with 8-a-side at best (and that's just off the dissent bookings). And imagine a situation with 2 identical bad tackles, one in the first minute of a meaningless end of season match and one in the middle of a heated derby which has about to overheat - nobody would argue that the identical tackles should be met with the same result. It's all about context. And the comment was ridiculous for the implication of some sort of bias towards United. Simply untrue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 And imagine a situation with 2 identical bad tackles, one in the first minute of a meaningless end of season match and one in the middle of a heated derby which has about to overheat - nobody would argue that the identical tackles should be met with the same result. It's all about context. I'm a bit torn over this statement. On the one hand it sounds like common sense, but on the other are we saying that Big John shouldn't be as up for a game at Crawley playing for Oldham as some random mercenary playing for Man City at the end of the season? You will see 30 or 40 pushes like the one JVM did in flare ups between top Premiership sides, with some players getting stuck in loads, so to count whether he did one or two isn't the whole picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Should have slapped him with his mighty left bollock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrown23 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Regardless really, if you raise your hands and push someone you run the risk of getting sent off. Some ref's will be lenient, others won't. Its like 2 footed tackles, if you do one you won't 100% always get a red depending on the ref's interpretations/view etc, but you give the referee the chance to show you one. If he keeps his hands down then there's no issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.