Diego_Sideburns Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Apparently he's been injured in training and is out for a month! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 Apparently he's been injured in training and is out for a month! I suspect that he's already let down England! A month... I bet it turns out to be a fortnight. He'll miss the Austria and Croatia games but be back in the scum squad the week after. Sorry if I'm a cynic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 I suspect that he's already let down England! A month... I bet it turns out to be a fortnight. He'll miss the Austria and Croatia games but be back in the scum squad the week after. Sorry if I'm a cynic I know that the armchair patriots will hate this, but you can't blame him if he doesn't necessarily wish to get a front row seat at the inevitable conclusion of "McLaren's" reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 I know that the armchair patriots will hate this, but you can't blame him if he doesn't necessarily wish to get a front row seat at the inevitable conclusion of "McLaren's" reign. It's the players who haven't performed in their front row seats who have lead to the end of the reign of successive managers. I see strenuous efforts are being made to make sure Beckham gets 100 caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footy68 Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 It's the players who haven't performed in their front row seats who have lead to the end of the reign of successive managers. I see strenuous efforts are being made to make sure Beckham gets 100 caps. What are you trying to say? Becks has played well in his last two games, 1 v a Hollywood pub side and the other v some Canucks. Bring on the Croats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 (edited) It's the players who haven't performed in their front row seats who have lead to the end of the reign of successive managers. I see strenuous efforts are being made to make sure Beckham gets 100 caps. You're right, as usual, Diego. It would be churlish and needlessly unkind to blame "McLaren", and yet I think we should. Having failed at two tournaments in which we were well fancied, the FA promoted the assistant to the architect of those failures to the main job, with predictable consequences. "McLaren" reckons that Israel is a tough place to go to get a result and that we shouldn't write off our chances just yet. However, he must be the only person on Earth who doesn't realise that it was only a tough place for his England team to go and get a result, which doesn't necessarily go for everyone, or anyone, else. The players who have contributed so willingly to "McLaren's" downfall ought generally to be excluded from selection in future. That doesn't include Rooney, but it does include "Michael" "Owen", "Gerrard", "Lampard", Beckham, "Terry", "Cashley Cole" and, of course, "Robinson". Edited November 9, 2007 by 24hoursfromtulsehill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted November 9, 2007 Share Posted November 9, 2007 (edited) I know that the armchair patriots will hate this, but you can't blame him if he doesn't necessarily wish to get a front row seat at the inevitable conclusion of "McLaren's" reign. Firstly, I'm not sure what makes me an armchair patriot! Secondly, I'm by no means holding Rooney solely responsible for our situation but the fact is that he has played in every game where we have dropped points this campaign and so I would expect him to be big enough to try and bail us out or face the consequences if we can't. Edited November 9, 2007 by Latics & England Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 9, 2007 Author Share Posted November 9, 2007 I suspect that he's already let down England! A month... I bet it turns out to be a fortnight. He'll miss the Austria and Croatia games but be back in the scum squad the week after. Sorry if I'm a cynic Cynic? I prefer to see it as realism. Looking on the bright side, if Rooney doesn't play, he can't get sent off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Firstly, I'm not sure what makes me an armchair patriot! You dont know ???? Where were you in Russia when the boys needed you to cheer them on hey ? O'h yes, stood next to me in the Luzhniki Stadium. Its the home game 0 v 0 FYR Macedonia thats costing us a place at the championships this summer, you have to beat these sort of teams at home, as there is always the chance that you may only draw or even lose against them away !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 You dont know ???? Where were you in Russia when the boys needed you to cheer them on hey ? O'h yes, stood next to me in the Luzhniki Stadium. Its the home game 0 v 0 FYR Macedonia thats costing us a place at the championships this summer, you have to beat these sort of teams at home, as there is always the chance that you may only draw or even lose against them away !! Well done for going, but the writing was on the wall for this qualification campaign from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I'm gonna make a controversial statement here (I think). But I'm not too bothered about Rooney missing the game, I think the Owen/Rooney partnership is pretty poor. Owen's best games for England have come when he has a big Striker playing alongside him, he suddenly started finding the net again with Heskey alongside him. So I reckon an Owen /(and dare I say it) Crouch partnership would be the best solution for this (hopefully) crunch match. Although I think he's probably over the hill a bit now, I also think we might need Beckham too. We will need some quality balls into the box, and there is no-one better than Beckham for this; plus you get the added bonus of injury time 0-0 and we have a free kick at the edge of the area. Who would you want taking it? I guess Im on my own here but....................................................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carrabanana Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) I'm gonna make a controversial statement here (I think). But I'm not too bothered about Rooney missing the game, I think the Owen/Rooney partnership is pretty poor. Owen's best games for England have come when he has a big Striker playing alongside him, he suddenly started finding the net again with Heskey alongside him. So I reckon an Owen /(and dare I say it) Crouch partnership would be the best solution for this (hopefully) crunch match. Although I think he's probably over the hill a bit now, I also think we might need Beckham too. We will need some quality balls into the box, and there is no-one better than Beckham for this; plus you get the added bonus of injury time 0-0 and we have a free kick at the edge of the area. Who would you want taking it? I guess Im on my own here but....................................................... Believe it or not you're not on you're own here. I for one will be glad to see Peter Crouch on the pitch because I'm of the opinion that he wouldn't be playing for a big club and wouldn't be named in the national squad if he wasn't a quality player. And I still think that Beckham deserves his 100 caps. Like you said, there's nobody better than Beckham to get those quality balls in the box Edited November 12, 2007 by carrabanana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Believe it or not you're not on you're own here. I for one will be glad to see Peter Crouch on the pitch because I'm of the opinion that he wouldn't be playing for a big club and wouldn't be named in the national squad if he wasn't a quality player. And I still think that Beckham deserves his 100 caps. Like you said, there's nobody better than Beckham to get those quality balls in the box If Russia beat Israel, which they will, I think we should give 11 fans a game. I think we should send out a Women's Institute XI. We may as well sound out the bloody cricket team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) We can still qualify if Andorra hold Russia...... KTF! Edited November 12, 2007 by Bring Back Pukka Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I think this may be more wishful thinking than anything else, but I have a sneeky feeling that Croatia will lose in Macedonia. Macedonia looked a decent side when we played them and there is 'a bit of history' there. If Russia win on Saturday and Croatia slip up, thus leaving us needing a 3-0 win next Wed, things could get really interesting at Wembley. I don't believe we'd get the 3-0 (although we'd give it a good go)but it would be an amazing atmosphere and the first really big game back at Wembley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I think this may be more wishful thinking than anything else, but I have a sneeky feeling that Croatia will lose in Macedonia. Macedonia looked a decent side when we played them and there is 'a bit of history' there. If Russia win on Saturday and Croatia slip up, thus leaving us needing a 3-0 win next Wed, things could get really interesting at Wembley. I don't believe we'd get the 3-0 (although we'd give it a good go)but it would be an amazing atmosphere and the first really big game back at Wembley If we got the given the chance to go through provided we beat Croatia by at least 3 goals, we'd maul Croatia. I'd go as saying it would be a 6-0 affair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 If we got the given the chance to go through provided we beat Croatia by at least 3 goals, we'd maul Croatia. I'd go as saying it would be a 6-0 affair. By saturday night, tickets for next wednesday will either be being given away or will be selling for two or three hundred quid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 It's very rare, possibly unique, for me to agree with former referee Jeff Winter, but I find myself in full agreement when he says: "Sixty minutes in against Russia and the headlines were being written. England had qualified and the media would soon be telling the world that we would win Euro 2008. Twenty minutes and one dodgy refereeing decision later and the whole picture had changed. He must go and will go unless Israel help us out. But should McClaren go? And should every manager be sacked when a few results (or even just one) goes against them? The England job is a poisoned chalice. The media toy with you, pick the teams, ridicule you and quite frankly why would anyone in their right mind want the job? Manager after manager come and go and are frequently castigated for not turning a world class group of players into a Championship winning team. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe it's not the coach that is the problem? Maybe our so called world class superstars are just not that good after all. Against Russia, where were Cole, Gerrard, Owen and Rooney (goal apart)? The simple fact of the matter is that we are just not good enough. We pay multi million pound wages per annum to players who just cannot cut it on the World stage. Until we realize that, then regardless of who the coach is or whether or not the ref is useless, then we will never win anything." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The England job is a poisoned chalice. The media toy with you, pick the teams, ridicule you and quite frankly why would anyone in their right mind want the job? Until we get a manager who picks the team himself and picks players based on performance instead of repuation then we'll continue to switch managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 "picks players based on performance instead of repuation" A good example of this would be the '86 World Cup in Mexico. Bryan Robson dislocated his shoulder and Ray Wilkins was sent off which meant Bobby Robson was forced into playing Peter Beardsley. All of a sudden (to use a Ronnieism) the team gelled and Lineker started scoring goals for fun; because it was the best most balanced team, and not based upon the reputation of Robson and to a lesser extent Ray "the crab" Wilkins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latics and England Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Manager after manager come and go and are frequently castigated for not turning a world class group of players into a Championship winning team. Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe it's not the coach that is the problem? Maybe our so called world class superstars are just not that good after all. Against Russia, where were Cole, Gerrard, Owen and Rooney (goal apart)? The simple fact of the matter is that we are just not good enough. We pay multi million pound wages per annum to players who just cannot cut it on the World stage. Until we realize that, then regardless of who the coach is or whether or not the ref is useless, then we will never win anything." Maybe you are right. Maybe the players are not world class. That is open to debate. While it is possible to argue that we do not have the players to win the world cup, I don't believe that you can put forward a real argument that we should not be able to beat Israel, Macedonia and Russia. The fact is, though, we didn't. The reason we didn't is largely down to the players but I'm afraid that the manager has to take responsibility. He has to instill the belief and passion into the players, and if he can't, he has to find players where he can. I do not have an answer as to who should take over but I do not believe that someone who has failed to take us out of what was, at the time of the draw, seen as one of the easiest qualification groups can possibly keep his job. The players are able to show their clas when playing club football but are found lacking on the international stage. I have little doubt that Champions League football is of a higher quality than international football, so why can they shine in one, but not in the other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 What's getting me is the Gareth Barry situation - he can take excellent set pieces, as well as carrying the ball forward and making intelligent threatening forward passes, oh and he can tackle. And head. Shame he won't be starting the game then. I would go with: Owen Giraffe Cole Barry Lampard Gerrard Bridge Campbell Richards Hargreaves Calamity and spend 90 minutes with a cork up my arse praying not to be made to look very foolish for picking Sir David in net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 While it is possible to argue that we do not have the players to win the world cup, I don't believe that you can put forward a real argument that we should not be able to beat Israel, Macedonia and Russia. The fact is, though, we didn't. The reason we didn't is largely down to the players but I'm afraid that the manager has to take responsibility. He has to instill the belief and passion into the players, and if he can't, he has to find players where he can. I do not have an answer as to who should take over but I do not believe that someone who has failed to take us out of what was, at the time of the draw, seen as one of the easiest qualification groups can possibly keep his job. The players are able to show their clas when playing club football but are found lacking on the international stage. I have little doubt that Champions League football is of a higher quality than international football, so why can they shine in one, but not in the other? I'm not sure about the meaning of the words I've highlighted. I think most people agree that the best players are in the squad - if he can't instill passion and belief in those players, then to pick others who are not thought to be the best players but have pride, passion and belief, may well be the way forward. However, it would not be very popular with the fans and the media. Greece and Northern Ireland showed it can be done. Even Scotland have already beaten teams that England would struggle against, and restored the Scottish fans' and media's belief. I agree that a manager who is unable to get the team to qualify for a big tournament has failed. In this case the same manager was part of the previous set-up which failed when it really mattered. So he cannot keep his job. The players who are able to show their class playing club football do so as part of a multi-national team. When it comes to playing for England, they are shown to be not as skillful as they appear in the League/Champions' League. It may be true that ManUre, Arsenal and perhaps Chelski could beat Israel, Macedonia and Russia, although Chelski v Russia would depend on which team Abromovich wanted to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Chelski v Russia would depend on which team Abromovich wanted to win. And Russia v Israel doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 A good example of this would be the '86 World Cup in Mexico. Bryan Robson dislocated his shoulder and Ray Wilkins was sent off which meant Bobby Robson was forced into playing Peter Beardsley. All of a sudden (to use a Ronnieism) the team gelled and Lineker started scoring goals for fun; because it was the best most balanced team, and not based upon the reputation of Robson and to a lesser extent Ray "the crab" Wilkins. Similarly, England had a run of good performances and convincing victories to the surprise of the media, without relying on 40 yard crossfield passes from Beckham. Then it went pear-shaped against Russia, taking it out of England's hands. So Beckham is recalled from showbiz 'soccer', in the hope of a match-winning free-kick scenario, on which his reputation in recent years has been based. Lightning doesn't strike twice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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