hypothetical question

[leezyverpunk]

Facts speak for themselves - last season we made the play-offs but got beat due to running out of steam, this season thus far - 6 points away from play-off places with a game in hand - both of these achievements reached NOT playing hoof ball but playing on the deck with wingers - something a lot of teams in our League cannot boast - in my eyes Shezza is god and whatever he decides I will be behind 100% - anyone who says is rubbish is talking the same - IMHO!

[Corporal_Jones]

However talked about us being an established Championship side aiming for Europe via the League Cup or being a losing FA Cup finalist? Wow, I want some of your optimism! Fair enough you mention the huge factor of luck in the draw, but even the most established mid-table Premiership sides’ can only dream of such a scenario let alone plan for it!

 

 

 

Fanciful as it seems at the moment, to aim for such an eventual scenario is the only way to take a club like this up a level (or two.) If the finance-generating side of the redeveloped stadium comes off, why shouldn't we look towards it? After all, the likes of Bolton might have a more illustrious history than we do (mostly based on what they achieved a very long time ago), but as a town the place is little different to Oldham, whether in population or its close proximity to Manchester.

 

Nice to see some fans still think ambitiously. It sure beats settling for being a bottom half of the Third Division side, or one that occasionally glimpses the second tier.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

I personally look at the league table and can't help see Leeds and Forest. We have a good record against them, but aren’t on par with or even close in terms of a business or set up. Yet we aren't totally over-shadowed by them. For me supporters of clubs like Huddersfield, Millwall, Crewe and obv Forest and Leeds should have higher expectations than us (not to mention teams like Doncaster and Swansea). I've mentioned more teams there than there are promotion places and I'm not saying I'm happy being stagnant in League One nor am I content with mediocrity but I don't have too many complaints with the clubs current state and ambition. A few more home wins would obviously be welcome, and after our win against Everton, Uefa Cup here we come!!

 

 

 

Forest, Leeds and Huddersfield fair enough, but Millwall and Crewe?

 

Historically, Millwall are no bigger or more successful than we are, while until the 1990s, Crewe were absolutely among the game's minnows.

 

It dismays me that, these days, Latics go to places like Millwall and even Southend and come away with the attitude that we've pulled off a win at a big club.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[jmnes]

Forest, Leeds and Huddersfield fair enough, but Millwall and Crewe?

 

Historically, Millwall are no bigger or more successful than we are, while until the 1990s, Crewe were absolutely among the game's minnows.

 

It dismays me that, these days, Latics go to places like Millwall and even Southend and come away with the attitude that we've pulled off a win at a big club.

 

Recent history sees Millwall in the Championship, with a ground capacity of 20,000. I doubt their FA Cup Final loss was planned, nor has it been too successful for them as it turned out! Of course a cup run has long been seen as a good revenue boost, if it makes me unambitious that I don't think it is realistic Oldham should be aiming for Europe through cup competitions then I'm guilty as charged.

 

It was late last night so maybe not Crewe but the point is we are not disimiliar to the position of so many clubs in this League. I don't remember reading of anyone being content with staying in the bottom of league one as you keep posting. There are a few steps in between our current situtation and Europe, my ambitions are to build an established and stable club, who play attractive football. Yes this means playing at a higher level, by buying players with ambition as we have seen, if you don't achieve, they don't stick around! This will happen any league you're in, which is why having a core of established and loyal players is important. We are building now, albeit slowly but with off the field developments picking up pace, the current ambition is satisfying my way of thinking.

[Corporal_Jones]

Recent history sees Millwall in the Championship, with a ground capacity of 20,000. I doubt their FA Cup Final loss was planned, nor has it been too successful for them as it turned out! Of course a cup run has long been seen as a good revenue boost, if it makes me unambitious that I don't think it is realistic Oldham should be aiming for Europe through cup competitions then I'm guilty as charged.

 

It was late last night so maybe not Crewe but the point is we are not disimiliar to the position of so many clubs in this League. I don't remember reading of anyone being content with staying in the bottom of league one as you keep posting. There are a few steps in between our current situtation and Europe, my ambitions are to build an established and stable club, who play attractive football. Yes this means playing at a higher level, by buying players with ambition as we have seen, if you don't achieve, they don't stick around! This will happen any league you're in, which is why having a core of established and loyal players is important. We are building now, albeit slowly but with off the field developments picking up pace, the current ambition is satisfying my way of thinking.

 

 

 

Millwall were there because, for a time, they displayed the kind of ambition that we are only just beginning to show (perhaps.)

 

I don't think anybody was saying that Latics should be aiming for Europe in the next three or four years. There are indeed, as you say, steps to go through. The attitude that 'we have now found our level' is, however, commonplace, both on these boards and amongst fans you talk to. It is a result of the club constantly lowering its sights with every step of its decline. The annual claim that 'a top-ten finish will do this time around' (and that it was all that the club was aiming for in any case) only goes to reinforce this view of the club as one of the contemporary game's minnows.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[BlueJazzer]

I've been a supporter of the club since i can remember but i started going as a teenager back in the 80's, so i remember a big chunk of our days in the old second division. Theres been talk on here of us punching above our weight and i know this is only coming from memory - i really cant be arsed looking it up, feel free anyone - but i seem to recall all these teams being worse than us back in the day.... Donny, Crewe, Lashers, Bolton, Burnley, Preston - all in the old division 3 or 4? Leeds - also rans in our division? Blackburn - also in our division and no better than ourselves - granted they did get Uncle Jack in the 80's... Look at the teams that have yo-yo'd around the top of the championship in recent years. Wolves, Palcace, West Brom , Barnsley Watford - all nobodys....

 

To say we were punching above our weight is something of an insult to the club (imho). By and large a team achieves its success because it gets the right group of players together at the right time, who would have thought Henry Fleming Halle Barlow etc would have been the backbone of a succusful team when we first brought them in. The important thing is how you build on that success, which for me, is where we fail.

 

I'm not blaming anyone, not managers, fans, players.... though i will say i agree wholeheartedly with (think it was Corporal Jones) about changing 6 or 7 players a season and filling the gaps with loan players will never give us any stability.

 

Good thread, been an interesting read, we need more of this shiznit on here.

 

KTF guys and gals.....

Edited January 4, 2008 by BlueJazzer

[garcon]

Personally, I don't see patience and ambition as being mutually exclusive.

 

I want to see Oldham Athletic in the Championship, but not at any price. I want to see us able to go up and consolidate. I want to see us in a sustainable position where our income matches that ambition, so that when we do go up it's not to have a relegation battle or two before we come back down. And if that means a couple more seasons in League One while we get things right then fine.

 

I don't subscribe to this idea that clubs have a 'natural level' or should 'belong' in any particular division. Yes, of course there's a tendency for clubs with bigger support to do better... they have more income than their competitors, which when mixed with a good manager and the right players brings success on the pitch, which brings more support and more income. Play it right and it's a self-perpetuating spiral. But clubs like Wolves have seen that spiral work in both directions.

 

On the stability of the playing staff, I agree it is vital to steady progress. But keeping hold of the right players for longer than two seasons is getting harder and harder - and that's made all the worse when we change our manager every 18 months.

[Latics4Ever]

Fanciful as it seems at the moment, to aim for such an eventual scenario is the only way to take a club like this up a level (or two.) If the finance-generating side of the redeveloped stadium comes off, why shouldn't we look towards it? After all, the likes of Bolton might have a more illustrious history than we do (mostly based on what they achieved a very long time ago), but as a town the place is little different to Oldham, whether in population or its close proximity to Manchester.

 

Nice to see some fans still think ambitiously. It sure beats settling for being a bottom half of the Third Division side, or one that occasionally glimpses the second tier.

 

 

I have had this opinion for a number of seasons, and personally, I would rather see Latics establish themselves in the Championship and go on cup runs with a view to possibly reaching Europe than see us go into the Premier and the club suffer as it did post-94.

 

As for the comment that "the most established mid-table Premiership sides' can only dream of such a scenario let alone plan for it!" the thing is, most Premier sides are so anal they believe that life ends once they are out of the Greed Is Good League. We will never win the Premier League, and until Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal get bored with the Prem and whinge for more money from a European league, I can't see any other club than possibly Liverpool from winning the Prem. So rather than see Latics struggle in the top flight I'd prefer us to hold our own in the Championship, aim to go as far as possible in the League & FA Cups and who knows, Europe could then become a possibility.

 

The fact no other side has planned this can only be a good thing, it means that we would be pioneers if it comes off and if it didn't, providing we plan financially for 1 round of each cup we wouldn't lose out financially. Which is not the case once relegated from the Premier with players on high contracts!

 

 

And remember, we are now only 5 matches away from playing in Europe!

Edited January 7, 2008 by Latics4Ever

[paulgard]

I have had this opinion for a number of seasons, and personally, I would rather see Latics establish themselves in the Championship and go on cup runs with a view to possibly reaching Europe than see us go into the Premier and the club suffer as it did post-94.

 

As for the comment that "the most established mid-table Premiership sides' can only dream of such a scenario let alone plan for it!" the thing is, most Premier sides are so anal they believe that life ends once they are out of the Greed Is Good League. We will never win the Premier League, and until Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal get bored with the Prem and whinge for more money from a European league, I can't see any other club than possibly Liverpool from winning the Prem. So rather than see Latics struggle in the top flight I'd prefer us to hold our own in the Championship, aim to go as far as possible in the League & FA Cups and who knows, Europe could then become a possibility.

 

The fact no other side has planned this can only be a good thing, it means that we would be pioneers if it comes off and if it didn't, providing we plan financially for 1 round of each cup we wouldn't lose out financially. Which is not the case once relegated from the Premier with players on high contracts!

And remember, we are now only 5 matches away from playing in Europe!

we've planned financially for just 1 round of the cups for a few years now,agree with the championship thing.ktf.