HarryBosch Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Perhaps the debate between the pair of you would be better served in the correct forum, a trust meeting. I believe so anyway, not on here.You always trawl this one out. Just because you'd be comfortable in such a situation doesn't mean someone who wouldn't be isn't entitled to voice his/her opinions via other available means Edited October 31, 2014 by HarryBosch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Indeed Harry, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I say go for it. This poll is a witch hunt, nothing more. I beg to differ I've always trawled this out by the way. Now don't make it personal, lets stick to the issues please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm not sure where Barry's title 'fans' rep' came from or even it's definition but my understanding from the meetinigs i've been to is he is our fan on the board and that's where it the fans rep bit is. Me and Simin came onto the trust board this year to help with the communication at the trust. I'd like to think this is atleast slowly improving but it is a massive job as u all know. The idea was to take some of that away from Barry. He admits himself he isn't the most popular figure but i personally believe he is important to the trust and his knowledge of the club is vital to us. The staement he put out yesterday was done so as a club director and not trust chairman (although you may argue the 2 are linked) The trust itself is going through a period of change and if you feel strongly about it and feel you want to help mould the future of it then i urge u to come to a meeting or atleast get in touch with me. Barry is up for election next year and it will be interesting to see what candidates step up. But if u want changes at the trust, now is the time to get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 The staement he put out yesterday was done so as a club director I would argue that the director who is there to represent supporters should refrain from club "PR". Where's the estate agent, sports lawyer chap, director with executive responsibility etc? If they're not going to make a statement instead of Barry the least they could do is check the effing wording before it's handed to a journalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shorelatic Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Lags, I cannot believe you are defending Barry as much as it appears. Speaking from the outside, from what I have seen/understand there is no witch hunt - Barry has made certain comments in open public view which, on the face of it, a lot of fans find offensive/objectionable. As is the normal way on here someone has opened a Poll, rightly or wrongly, and if you wish you are able to add a vote for or against him. Like everything else on here, it carries no weight and in a couple of days time it will have been forgotten about. In general terms whether or not you would like to see 'his head on a spike at the top of Sheepfoot Lane - Ned Stark style' is of no consequence, (even though the event may attract a sizeable gathering). As several posters have confirmed if people are so unhappy with Barry there is a mechanism for voting him out - organise the necessary AGM or whatever have a democratic vote and see how it goes - simples. Barry has a record of making comments and thinking afterwards - there is even an argument that maybe he should have is freedom of speech removed (only joking people) If it is believed that he has now finally overstepped the mark then commence proceedings to remove him from the position. The main problem as far as I can see is that a lot of fans think that Barry is the 'Trust' so perhaps the time is right to make that move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'm not sure where Barry's title 'fans' rep' came from... Barry talking about his role after being appointed as a director of the Latics board, ten years ago: "Supporters have a right for their voices to be heard – that’s what myself and the Trust are trying to achieve." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 IMO the role of ' fans voice in the boardroom ' needs simplifying. To try and represent both parties will inevitably lead to clashes of opinion. What's needed is a regular fan, who can go and put forward ideas and complaints from the wider fanbase and then report back. Someone who is easily and visibly accessible. I don't think it's rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 IMO the role of ' fans voice in the boardroom ' needs simplifying. To try and represent both parties will inevitably lead to clashes of opinion. What's needed is a regular fan, who can go and put forward ideas and complaints from the wider fanbase and then report back. Someone who is easily and visibly accessible. I don't think it's rocket science. I agree to a point. There is also a need to be able to influence. Simply picking up ideas, throwing them into the pot and returning to report "the club can't be arsed" isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Barry talking about his role after being appointed as a director of the Latics board, ten years ago: "Supporters have a right for their voices to be heard thats what myself and the Trust are trying to achieve." I can't really discuss that in detail because i wasn't involved back then but now we are working on a new strategy model and communication is at the forefront if that. As far as we're concerned there should be 3 solid and strong links:Club-trust Trust-fans Fans-club We are working to bring them links in as solid as possible. We know they have been pretty much non-existant over the last few years, and the club have admitted the same. But we can't change the past so we're working to change the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I can't really discuss that in detail because i wasn't involved back then but now we are working on a new strategy model and communication is at the forefront if that. As far as we're concerned there should be 3 solid and strong links: Club-trust Trust-fans Fans-club We are working to bring them links in as solid as possible. We know they have been pretty much non-existant over the last few years, and the club have admitted the same. But we can't change the past so we're working to change the future! Chris, I don't question the efforts of those who work behind the scenes with the Trust, such as yourself. I know that there are people involved who have given up an incredible amount of their time and money, in trying to drive positive initiatives, only to be criticised by fans and the club itself. However, the changing dynamic of the Trust is something I do have a major problem with and it's something I think is primarily driven by Barry's preference for being a club director, rather than Trust Chairman - which is something he should never lose sight of as far as I'm concerned. It strikes me that other members of the Trust are frequently forced to say, through gritted teeth, "He was speaking as club director, not Trust Chairman." as a delicate way of saying, he's a loose cannon and none of us agree with what he's saying. The guy is an absolute car crash because he looks down on the people he was once intent on representing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Chris, I don't question the efforts of those who work behind the scenes with the Trust, such as yourself. I know that there are people involved who have given up an incredible amount of their time and money, in trying to drive positive initiatives, only to be criticised by fans and the club itself. However, the changing dynamic of the Trust is something I do have a major problem with and it's something I think is primarily driven by Barry's preference for being a club director, rather than Trust Chairman - which is something he should never lose sight of as far as I'm concerned. It strikes me that other members of the Trust are frequently forced to say, through gritted teeth, "He was speaking as club director, not Trust Chairman." as a delicate way of saying, he's a loose cannon and none of us agree with what he's saying. The guy is an absolute car crash because he looks down on the people he was once intent on representing. Barry's knowledge of how the club works is vital to the trust imo and his position is a very important one. However his position is up for re-election in april and he was part of the decision making process that brought that change around. He has made mistakes, he will tell u that himself. And yesterday was probably one if those mistakes. But he was not speaking as a fan representative nor was he speaking on behalf of the trust. We are all disappointed with crowds ofer the last few weeks (or seasons maybe) but as a trust we are trying to be more proactive about it. As i stated on a different thread i think, we have taken a proposal to the club board to try something different at the crawley game. At a time when things seem to be on the up, we should all be pushing in the same direction, the club, the fans and the trust. I think most of us agree that the sentiments of barry's letter are bang on, the delivery of it however, wasn't. Ithink the poster that has been produced on here is a great idea and another way of being proactive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsworthlatic Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Barry has made some comments that are right in the factual manner of that we don't get enough support but put it across horrifically!! Now for me to say he should consider his position as a board member I feel that I should pose as a representative and act as an alternative, I'm not willing to do that so no Barry shouldn't consider his position until such time as he gets voted out and then we go from there, until such time that somebody is willing to stand against Barry my vote is that he should carry on doing what he is doing He is not going to drive supporters away as we are down to the hardcore as it is, equally he won't entice people to go 'we'll go ahead and watch latics' but there needs to be an alternative! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scapegoat Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think that some of the discussion on here relates to a lack of understanding of the role that Barry and the Trust play with in the club. With a democratic process in the near future perhaps it would be worth Barry and the Trust producing some from of documentation to explain the current set-up and process i.e. Definition of the roles and responsilities of theTrust Chairman; the role of Director on the board; the role of other driectors on the board; the role of other key members of the trust (and indication of the time committments would be useful as well if people are going to be asked to consider standing). A organisational structure of the Trust - and potentially some areas of the club. A doument spelling out what the strategy and goals are for the trust. A document spelling out how the trust operates - how they communicate with the club; how they communicate with the fans etc. A document spelling out how fans can get involved. From the outside it feels like there is not a lot of clarity (maybe there is an I just haven't seen it). It would be good to pull this together and pin-it as a topic on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) I think that some of the discussion on here relates to a lack of understanding of the role that Barry and the Trust play with in the club. With a democratic process in the near future perhaps it would be worth Barry and the Trust producing some from of documentation to explain the current set-up and process i.e. Definition of the roles and responsilities of theTrust Chairman; the role of Director on the board; the role of other driectors on the board; the role of other key members of the trust (and indication of the time committments would be useful as well if people are going to be asked to consider standing). A organisational structure of the Trust - and potentially some areas of the club. A doument spelling out what the strategy and goals are for the trust. A document spelling out how the trust operates - how they communicate with the club; how they communicate with the fans etc. A document spelling out how fans can get involved. From the outside it feels like there is not a lot of clarity (maybe there is an I just haven't seen it). It would be good to pull this together and pin-it as a topic on this board. This is currently being developed for the website. Edited October 31, 2014 by c.hill12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) It's pretty difficult to wear 3 hats all at the same time. IMO, and its just that, my opinion, Barry cannot undertake 3 clearly seperate roles all at the same time, without severe cause & effects resulting from blurred lines & various examples of clear conflicts of interest between the roles. I think, regardless of your actual opinion of Barry the man, a great number of Latics fans would agree that the role Barry performs as Club Director is a very decent one. He contributes to the running of the club behind the scenes and does so without drawing a wage. Essentially, due to his fortunate early pension, the club has an 'employee' working 30odd hours a week for nothing. Now, some could say he's engineered that very cleverly, to help his arguement that he's the only person who can fulfill the role - that's for another point here. Whilst he wears the hat of and performs the role of Club Director, his 2 other positions of Trust Director and Fans Rep are surely untennable? Its a huge conflict of interest, and that's the main issue for me. If its possible, IMO, Barry should remain as a non-investing Club Director; to take advantage of the knowledge he has gained, and to continue with the work for the club he does in his retirement. But - he should stand down and move aside from his Trust Director position and his 'Voice of the Fans' / Fans Rep role. The 3 roles simply cannot and do not co-exist without major conflicts of interest resulting... Edited October 31, 2014 by slystallone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
another fan Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Can i just ask when was the last time he asked the fans for an opinion aside from the meet the manager days? I understand comments raised on both sides of this discussion but I currently have no intention in taking part in this debate apart from this Although I do not know Barry well I do believe that he IMHO is would not mind you having a quick discussion on match days PLEASE ACCEPT MY NEXT COMMENT TONGUE IN CHEEK or are you one that the Club trying to get to the ground on match days Edited October 31, 2014 by another fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I agree Sly regarding the 3 roles will always have conflicts of interest. However those conflicts will always be there for who ever is the Chair of the trust. Unless the trust give up it's club board seat. Are we saying that's what we want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Shorelatic, I've had other stuff to attend, hence late reply. Plus this forum doesn't allow me to quote in my replies. So I'll try to reply to your post now without your text sorry. I am not defending Barry. I am saying we have been witnessing near hysteria regarding an article attributed to Barry Owen these passed couple of days. This, on the back of an already much maligned figure it's true to say. The correct forum to conduct this poll is in the trust voting system, that I am pleased to say as seen much needed reform to give a far wider democratic, fair and balanced outcome. Shouting down a man on here for a few days then putting up a poll that at best will see 200 votes is indeed a witch hunt. Lets have a debate, why not? the elections are around the corner. However lets hear first hand what get's done and what doesn't. With all the facts to hand you, I and everyone else can make a balanced view and tick the correct box. The invitation as been made several times for people to go along and air their gripes, surely they would come back here to report.....wouldn't they?? Edited October 31, 2014 by Lags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Shorelatic, I've had other stuff to attend, hence late reply. Plus this forum doesn't allow me to quote in my replies. So I'll try to reply to your post now without your text sorry. I am not defending Barry. I am saying we have been witnessing near hysteria regarding an article attributed to Barry Owen these passed couple of days. This, on the back of an already much maligned figure it's true to say. The correct forum to conduct this poll is in the trust voting system, that I am pleased to say as seen much needed reform to give a far wider democratic, fair and balanced outcome. Shouting down a man on here for a few days then putting up a poll that at best will see 200 votes is indeed a witch hunt. Lets have a debate, why not? the elections are around the corner. However lets hear first hand what get's done and what doesn't. With all the facts to hand you, I and everyone else can make a balanced view and tick the correct box. The invitation as been made several times for people to go along and air their gripes, surely they would come back here to report.....wouldn't they?? Top post - I just don't get what was said that was so wrong. Granted it was worded poorly but the gist of what he said was an honest expression of how the board feels at the moment. As Lags writes, the correct forum is via the trust voting system. Nothing to see here, move on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slystallone Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I agree Sly regarding the 3 roles will always have conflicts of interest. However those conflicts will always be there for who ever is the Chair of the trust. Unless the trust give up it's club board seat. Are we saying that's what we want? Nope, that's not quite what I posting. Barry becomes a Non-Investing Member of the Board outright. Trust Chairman takes the seat on the board also; in the seat that always should exist for the Trust. Separate Fans Rep role brought into place, who reports into Trust Director. 3 separate roles, clearly defined boundaries, lots less conflicts of interest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 I just don't get what was said that was so wrong. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Villains Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 the trust dont have much power at all......3% on the board means nothing to the average fan and i bet the average fan isnt bothered.....buy the club make the difference otherwise lump it cos it aint going to change....trust are a waste of time and money at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Really? Yup really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c.hill12 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 [quote name="Lags" post="739231" timestamp="1414759430 The invitation as been made several times for people to go along and air their gripes, surely they would come back here to report.....wouldn't they?? Just to pick up on that last point, we openly invite everyone to all our meetings and publicise them through various channels. The AGM was the biggest turn out with around 12 fans turning up. Last month we had 3 fans turn up who contributed quite alot in fairness. Their comments mirrored ours as a trust (or certainly mine personally) they had seen all the complaining through various forms of social media, including owtb, and were amazed at how few turned up. Meetings are ipen for everyone and it is my intention to have as many people as possible at them. We now have club representation at some of them aswell so even more reasons to come down. Last month we discussed home shirts, ticket prices, new stand corporate facilities, car parking amongst other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Villains Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Just to pick up on that last point, we openly invite everyone to all our meetings and publicise them through various channels. The AGM was the biggest turn out with around 12 fans turning up. Last month we had 3 fans turn up who contributed quite alot in fairness. Their comments mirrored ours as a trust (or certainly mine personally) they had seen all the complaining through various forms of social media, including owtb, and were amazed at how few turned up. Meetings are ipen for everyone and it is my intention to have as many people as possible at them. We now have club representation at some of them aswell so even more reasons to come down. Last month we discussed home shirts, ticket prices, new stand corporate facilities, car parking amongst other things. cos nobody really is arsed.....the only time youll be needed is if there is a threat of admin....things look rosy compared to 10 yesrs ago...and come on,if we did go bust what could you do apart from being part of a larger committee to oversee the sale of the club....no offence but the trust arent needed right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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