Harry Dowds Green Shirt

John, The last figures I had for those outlets in Spindles, which admittedly was 7 or 8 years ago, was that the smallest unit had a rental of £30,000 per year, then you have business rates, fitout and staffing costs, so you are probably looking at around £80-£90K a year. Somehow, I don't think it is going to happen certainly within Spindles. Cheers, Harry

I think you must have misread my post, because I did not refer to purchasing online. I said tickets could be bought over the phone. Yes I take your point about people deciding at the last minute. However, take Saturdays attendance of around 4,500 home fans. 3,000 are season ticket holders which means 1,500 are pay on the day. There were only around 200 or so that bought before the day of the game meaning around 1,300 have paid on the day. Some of these are families which can mean savings of £4-£6 a time. One of the points I was making is how many of these 1,300 are aware that they can save. money. If they are not aware, then they are not going to tell others who might be thinking of coming back. It really is a simple way of keeping the admission prices down and maybe, just maybe, enticing back some of the stayaways. At the same time I accept that there will always be those who make a last minute decision, I just can't accept that that is around 80% of none season ticket holders that do so. Cheers, Harry

Another point is that the cost of getting in only needs to be £17/18. There is a saving of £2 if bought before the day of the game. You don't even have to go to the ground to buy them either. Tickets can be bought over the phone using either a debit or Credit (2% extra for credit cards) card and then picked up on the day of the game. It is an area where the club could publicise better. However, it really surprises me the number of pay on the day customers who pay the extra on the day and do not order at least a day before In fact I'll e-mail AH & SC and suggest that they do some publicity in the Chron, Advertiser and website on this point. Cheers, Harry

Don't think so bigfin. Until their promition season, the lashers didn't bring more than 1,500 including the season where they were relegated on the last game and IIRC more often than not the figure was closer to 1200. As for the Tramps bringing 2,000, please don't make me laugh. Its a bank holiday and I've got to go to work tomorrow and I don't want my sides to be sore. Chesterfield did not bring 6-700 either. I recall posting on JK latics after that game as Chesterfield only brought 200 that year. The figures that Diego has produced shows that the attendance has tended to be around 5,000-5,500 with the exception of the Carlisle game which was just after Ronnie was sacked for poor season ticket sales. I was really disappointed on Saturday as after our good start, I expected around 5,500 tics even on a bank holiday weekend. We really need a couple of decent results in the next 2 away games and then seen what we get against MK. I think it is almost unimportant to TTA at this stage as to whether we sell before the close of the window. They will only sell in this window if (a) the offer is too good to refuse or ( Shez sanctions a sale as it will allow him to bring in 1 or more replacements to improve the squad and make us stronger. However, if we continue in the top 6 until Christmas and crowds do not pick up by at least 1,000 per game, then TTA will probably reassess and a sale or 2 would be likely in the January window. Cheers, Harry

The Housing market is current going through a blip or as some are calling it a correction. However, the reports published in the last few weeks, are suggesting strong growth in house prices over the next 5 years. Although we are seeing a fall in prices this year and falls may continue into next year, over the next 5 years prices are forecast to rise 23%. Once the "blip" or "correction" is over, the basic problem within the housing market will remain. That is there is and will remain a shortage of housing. A net 3,000,000 new houses over and above those replacing demolished houses need to be built over the next 10 years to meet demand. Once the banks get their heads out of their backsides and start lending to each other again and mortgages become more freely available, house prices will start "creeping up" again. So whilst the club & TTA have a short term problem in selling the land and therefore funding the stadium redevelopment, this will ease over the next 18 months to 2 years allowing the land to be sold and redevelopment to start (unless of course City sell Micah in the meantime) TTA will need to be patient until things improve, but once they do, the big boys, i.e. Barretts, Redrow, Persimmon etc will be falling over themselves for sites like BP and TTA should still get the money they were expecting. Also don't expect to see nearly 700 apartments to be built around the ground. It will not happen. The housing industry has seen that multiple tall blocks of apartments are no longer the in thing. (Just go round Manchester and see the number of unsold new apartment blocks) I expect to see a mix of houses and smaller blocks of apartments with some 350-400 units being built instead. With regard to the 3 year time limit on the planning permission, this only applies on the new Broadway stand. The rest of the site was only an outline consent and therefore there is a 3 year time limit to submit for the detailed consent and then a further 2 year period to start that part of the redevelopment. In any event, the principle of the redevelopment has been established and even if consent were to run out, any application to renew would be difficult to refuse unless there was a major change in circumstances, which because of the nature of the surrounding area is highly unlikely. The council would treat the demoilition of the Broadway stand, Clayton Arms etc as "enabling works" and not the start of development work so the 3 year period to start the work is still running. In the meantime our 3 sided ground needs to be made to work to our advantage. It will be interesting to see what sort of atmosphere we have this week without the Millwall mob.

What a pity. This has been 1 of the best threads we have had for ages. We get an opposition fan on spouting off pre match. It turns out he doesn't even go. He then comes on supposedly eating humble pie, but goes on to move the goal posts and professes to know all about the game he didn't go to by virtue of the match console. When he is shot down time and time again, he just keeps coming back for more and then just to prove he is a total tool he sinks as low as you can go by bringing up Hughes's past for which he has served his allotted sentence at the same time leaving himself open to libel. Still after Friday I was looking forward to a real thrashing only to be disappointed on Saturday. Then I was looking forward to doubling my posts only to be disappointed tonight to find the tool got himself banned. Ah well back to the mundane. Oh yes just 1 last point he claims Beckford has more class than Hughes. Hahahahahahahaha. When Beckford has played and scored in the premiership as often as Hughes did, I think we should let Spainboy back in so that he can say I told you so. But as there is not a cat in hells chance of that happening I dont think we will here from the troll again.

Whilst you prefer to add back in the 15 points, you fail to undersatnd that you started with those 15 points deducted for a reason (just as Luton, Rotherham and Bournemouth have this season) and that is that you failed to exit administartion in a way approved by the league. A rule that applies to all clubs now and Papa Smurf deliberatly went down this route knowing full well what the implications were. He then had the cheek to take the matter to court/arbitration. If you had exited administration in the way approved by the league, you would not have had as big a budget last season, as you would have had to pay back more of the debt, and therefore unlikely to have had the squad you did. So We will never know if the squad you would have had would have been good enough to have got those 91 points. Anyway it doesn't really matter now does it because like Satrudays result the history books will show you as being in division 3 in season 2008-09. But there again don't let the facts get in the way of your statistics and moving goalposts. "I have so much confidence in our players to claim top 2." Is that the same confidence you had that you would "rip us apart tomorrow" ? "The chmpionship is just as hard" Really so the teams coming down from the premiership with their 2 year parachute payments are not at an advantage? The stats do not back that up (and we all know how you like your stats.) Go back over the last 10 years and see how many teams have gone back up to the premiership from the Championship compared to teams going back up to the Championship from league 1. I'll leave Prozac to fill in the details on that one. Cheers, Harry. P.S. 100 posts yipeeeeeeeeeee. Diego here I come. I'll beat you to 7,000 posts

"Leeds are on immense form this season. We haven't lost one game starting the pre season and Jermaine Beckford is on fire. Ok we beat Chester who had also been beaten 6-0 by Dag but the quality of Beckfords goals have stirred up discussion not only in the championship but by premierleague fans too(check the MAD boards out). We have now the best team in the league, we play passing football as opposed to Dennis Wise's hoofball and we are looking very good. I cant wait for us to rip you apart tomorrow. My verdict Leeds United 4 Oldham 0" Above is your first post on this thread. No mention of winning the league is what it is all about. "I cant wait for us to rip you apart tomorrow." PMSL "Man Utd only drew at home on Sunday so does that mean they will end up around mid table by the end of the season?? No, they will come first or second. I really dont think Man Utd are worried just yet and Neither are Leeds." Yes but you are no Man U. You are in the third tier of English football just like us, because you have twice been relgated, because quite simply, you were not good enough. The team you have now may well be decent at this level (and may well be promoted at the end of the season), but so were Sheff Wednesday and Forest, but it still took them 2 and 3 years to get out of this competetive division, because despite thier big gates and big budgets, this league is no walk over and you have to earn the right to promotion by your performances on the pitch over 46 games Cheers, Harry

NO NO NO. It is not about who is going to win the league. Your original post was asking us if we were looking forward to a thrashing on Saturday. You are moving the goalposts sony. Mind you, you still would not have won if you'd moved them on Saturday. Stats stats and moving :censored:ing goalposts. Cheers, Harry

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I take it maths is not your strong point! 52-48 = ? 2% isn't the difference in goals either lol. I could go on. Oh go on I will. With regards to the so called penalty. I was sat level with the incident and big Enoch clearly had his arm back around Gregan tugging at his shirt, something not picked up by the cameras, but I'm sure that the ref would have seen that because he was also in line, sideways on, to it and that is why he waived play on. If anything it was a free kick to us for the first foul. What were the yellow cards for clever clogs does your wonderful match console tell you that? The fouls noted are only those awarded. They do not include the number of times the ref played on because of an advantage. Tell me from the clear view you had from Spain, how many times did that happen in the match and which side were those in favour of? Does trying to score twice from your own half count? Does shooting when an opponent is stood directly in front of the shot 1 yard away count especially when there is no way of it beating him? Does a shot that the keeper has to wait 5 hours to receive (slight exageration ) count? Do more corners count when everytime 1 comes in our "Leeds reject" of a centre half wins them anyway? I know 1 thing. I went to Elland Road on Saturday expecting a tonking after the reports of Leeds's marvellous achievements of winning at Scunthorpe & the mighty Chester. What I didn't expect was a game that only 1 team was ever going to win. That team being likkle Owdham. The fact is you were outplaying us that much that your own fans were leaving in droves with 10 minutes of normal time left, in effect 15 minutes before the end of the game. I don't think they saw it the way you did on the fabulously accurate match console.

You missed 2 stats off their spainboy. Possession: Leeds 48% Oldham 52% Goals: Leeds 0 Oldham 2 You outplayed us that much that we had more possession than you did. That tells its own story as Andy Gray would say. Also, how many shots did you have from inside the box and despite having more shots on target can you answer how many of these actually ended up with Crossley making a save? And before you answer I know you can't because you weren't there. To say "we outplayed you" really puzzles me, because I can't remember the last time that we were so "outplayed" and I wasn't scared that we might lose the match. The truth is Crossley, thats our goalkeeper by the way, wont have a quieter match all season. He had so little to do, he spent most of the second half patting his belly in reponse to the jibes from the Leeds fans in the South stand chanting you fat bastard. Oh, and with so little to do on Saturday he may have put a couple of pounds on

I think you should be paid Hardys money you dick I also thought that Saturday was the best atmosphere we have had at BP for many a year and resulted from the decision to give us the large section fo the RRE. Having seen Saturdays events from the Chaddy End and the comments on here since (and not just on this thread) I would think with hindsight, the club would have been better selling season tickets only in blocks "A" and "T" instead of "T" and "I." This would have given them better segregation options and avoided the unnesessary closeness of the fans on Saturday without stopping the "banter." That for me is a hindsight issue. I think that initially the club probably wanted to get our fans as close behind the goal as possible and in view of the fact that we have had this stand segregated like it is since it was built and there is no real history of trouble including when we were in the premiership the decision was taken on that basis. I also dont think the fact that we had Millwall first game did us any favours as the authorities are using the "issues" as an excuse to clamp down and show who is in charge. If we had a couple of quiet games first up i.e Cheltenham, Swindon we probably would not be seeing this reaction. I'm sure that over the next few games things will settle down as people get to know the stand and where everyone sits and those most upset will request relocating within the stand/to another stand and the club will accomadate them. Looks like more work for the under fire office staff

"Already, after Saturday's game, the police have asked us to introduce more segregation measures for future games which will result in the capacity of the stadium being reduced and subsequently reducing the club's revenue potential." "If these problems continue over the next couple of games the police will enforce even more restrictions on the club which is likely to result in higher police charges or even closure of certain parts of the ground." Sounds like the licencing body/Police is threatening the club along the lines of put messages out asking supporters "to behave" as per the terms of your licence or we will act and you know the consequences on the basis that it will have more impact coming from the club. It happens at other clubs including at trafford ball park. In view of the issues raised by the authorities/the club. In view of the link between OWTB and the club why cant we use this thread to come up with sensible solutions (instead of just moaning) that the mods can put to the club. It may be some could be introduced immediately whilst others may have to wait for next season. You cant please all of the people all of the time, or in the case of latics fans, you cant please any of the people any of the time

Strange you should say that.

Absolutely spot on. Gregan is a rock at the back for us and Shez recognised that last season when he made him Captain. So he makes 1 mistake that costs us a goal in a preseason friendly and he is classed as cocky and arrogant. Yesterday he was absolutely dominant. The 3 goals we conceeded had absolutely nothing to do with Gregan and apart from 1 save, Crossley had nothing else to do. I do not go along with those who suggest that our defence was all over the show yetserday. Millwall had 3 shots on goal and I believe none off target. So the 2 goals that they scored, the own goal & the save from Crossley was the extent of our "shakiness." A good piece of play from kick off and 2 individual errors very nearly cost us. The back 5 yesterday is IMO the best that we have at the present time. We clearly still need a recognised left back but in the meantime Lomax continues to do an admirable job and may follow in Irwins footsteps in being a right footed full back converted to left back. Flemming has clearly been brought in to challenge Crossley & I am sure that he will get a chance on Tuesday, but that will be pre planned and nothing to do with yesterday. Gregan bosses those around him. Do not mistake his demeanour as anything other than an experienced pro carrying out his captains duties. He has made a career at a higher level doing exactly that and he clearly retains the respect of his teammates. On another thread a comment was made suggesting that yesterday was a return to the Royle days. Well I bloody well hope so. If you score 3 we'll score 4. Bring it on with Captain Sean as our leader. If this is kept up BP crowds will increase. Cheers, Harry

Sorry boys and girls, but blaming Norm for us being 3-1 down is not the answer. Didn't see their or our first goals so can't comment. However the 2nd goal is purely down to Rubes. Norm called, Rubes headed with the back of his head, Norm had no chance. I'm afraid it happens especially early season, but when you see it on tv over the next couple of days, just watch the reaction of all the players and even Rubes himself. Its simple and obvious. The Crossley critics are wrong on this occassion. The third Millwall goal is a little different. Sat in the Chaddy I didn't get the best of views, however, what I did see was a speculative shot which appeared to loop up off Maher (?) Crossley appeared to have it covered and it was difficult to tell then if Norm got to the ball 1st or if it came back off the bar without him touching it. If he got to it first, then the blame lies with him. If he didn't get to it, them 1 of 2 things apply. (1) If he should have got it then its his faullt. (2) If he couldn't get it but he was unsure if it was dropping in or going over then he did the right thing in trying to get there Either way, he will feel bad about the 3rd goal, because no matter what he will feel he could have prevented it. Croslley baiting today is wrong he has possibly made 1 mistake in the match. Shez will review the tape and assess. However, Fleming will start on Tuesday and it will have nothing to do with today. Who starts next Saturday may be decided by Flemings performance on Tuesday.

Your right that did indeed happen. As Englaund had a midweek game the first division (now Premiership) was called off. The good old days of the 2 old dears sorting out the fixtures landed us with Millwall at home when both :censored:y & Scum weren't playing. Consequently there was a real ding dong & IIRC the crowd that day was a rather large 10,000ish which was quite a bit bigger than we were getting at the time. There was a fair amount of bovver that day. Plenty :censored:ty and Scum fans turned up and F troop were aparently in attandance. Some of the Millwall "boys" that I saw being banged up in the police vans were not to be messed with. I remember a fair few scummers had gone in the Rochdale Road end, only to find that a number of the Millwall fans had decided that the Chaddy was the place to look for a bit of action. Needless to say I had taken the soft option and decided that the main stand paddock would provide the best viewing I can't recall for definate but I'm sure that either the scummers of Millwall fans decided that a change of ends was a good idea and used the pitch (I think before kick off) as a short cut. One thing that was proved that day was that Millwalls reputation hadn't been overhyped. They were outnumbered by us, scummers & :censored:ty, but that feared them not one jot. IIRC the cameras were there not to cover the match, but the off pitch action that most seemed to be expecting due to the 2 Manc teams not having games. Cheers, Harry

This thread has been hijacked by people who are just using it as an excuse to swear on the forum. It's totally out of order and they can just go and :censored: themselves. Cheers, Harry PS. I hope the swear filter is now turned on

When I saw you pacing up and down across a row of seats at half time I wasn't sure if you were agitated or just trying to work out why we were not 3 up at that point. Then I saw the smile on your face as we acknowledged each other and I thought "Ah there goes Diego working out how quickly he can get his 6,000th post on OWTB"

As you know local government was never that good

Afternoon Diego. In answer to your questions 1) Yes I do agree with Gordon. I mean what I think he meant was that it was outstanding that Lids was rolling back the years in that he was fit. As for "his stylish attacking play" I have said for a while that Big G is delusional when he is commenting and I will have a word with him when I see him next week 2) Not sure about over-reacting as, IMO, one or two players, namely Hills in the 1st half and Davies and Erdley in the 2nd did look jaded. Either that or some were just treating it as a preseason friendly and "not putting it all in." There again Shez did say last week that Saturday would see us playing most of the players who would play next week for most of the match in the system we would be playing. That may have been true in the 1st half, but I doubt it could be said to apply for the second half. But there again Shez does tend to say 1 thing in the press and then do something different. I would that applied to the 2nd half on Saturday by changing personel and system. Maybe he felt he had seen enough in the first half Below are a number of quotes from Shez's interview on the official site on Friday "I will be playing a strong side at Bradford and its an opportunity to have a look at the system we're going to play," "I've been happy with the standard of opposition during pre-season - we have had some good games and Bradford will be no different." "I've got a good idea what my starting team's going to be [for the Millwall game], but there's still places up for grabs." "It's up to the players to impress and force their way into the line-up because there's plenty of competition." "Obviously performances are important but it would be nice to round off with a win." "But the work doesn't stop here; we will be working hard on the training ground next week to make sure we're ready for Millwall." "That means more work on shape and set pieces as well as some fine-tuning ahead of the game." So obviously (1) He had an idea of what his starting line up for Millwall was/is going to be, (2) Against Bradford, he was going to have a look at the system we are likely to play and (3) hard work for the coming week was already planned. Does that answer your questions Mr Sideburns?

OK boys and girls lets not all go too much overboard 1 way or another. Yes yesterday might not have been what we wanted to see 1 week before the season started. However, despite Shez's comments on the official site and in the Chron, it was clear that he was still experimenting yesterday and IMO quite rightly so. John Hills got 45 minutes to state his case at left back. Did he do enough for Shez? Well for me the answer would be no. I don't know if Shez took him off at half time because it was planned due to his limited match time in pre-season or because he thought he wasn't upto scratch. My guess would be fitness, although I wasn't impressed with what I saw. Both Lomax and Taylor and yes probably Thomson can give us better than Hills. We played 1 up front in the second half with first Davies then Allesandra as the lone striker, with Whittaker, Lids and Phillips supporting the front man and Maher & Allot protecting the back line. Did that work? Well going forward definately not, Davies wanders too much and young Alex has not yet got the experience to play that role IMO. Defensively it did work as Crossley was untroubled in the second half. It may well be that we play that system during the season when we are protecting leads. The team is taking shape and Shez has had a number of games to bed everyone in and try out different systems PRIOR TO NEXT SATURDAY The first half yesterday we were more than ok. I can't recall Crossley having a save to make and the goal came from Hills being outmuscled by his winger and not for the 1st time in the half. Smalley could easily have had a hattrick and Davies and O'Grady looked comfortable. The first 45 was certianly the most keenly 45 minutes I have seen preseason as both sides put the challenges in and I think Shez saw enough there to be satisfied that we wil be ready for next week. Whilst disappointed with the overall performance of the 2nd half, it was always going to deteriorate after half time due to both teams numerous subs and change of systems. I think what Shez really wanted to see yesterday was the first 45 and then experiment for the second half. I would imagine he has his answers. One thing is sure in my mind and that is that we will not see a set 4-4-2 all season as Shez adapts to the differing game plans of the opposition. He will not be able to be charged with not having a Plan B. The Lidds debate has been exhausted. As good a player as he has been, and I have been a big supporter of his in his time as a tic, ask yourself the question "How many of the preseason games has he started." There is your answer. Shez values his experience and will use him for short spells and he will also be invaluable around the dressing room. Off what I have seen, I don't think that Hills is the answer. However Shez may have seen more in training and give him more time, but he has shown with Alan Wright last season that if he is no better than what we already have he will not sign him. On that basis and if Philips is signed I think that next week the team is likely to be Crossley Eardley Hazell Greagan Lomax Taylor Allott Maher Phillips O'Grady Davies If Phillips isn't signed then expect to see Taylor switch to the left and Smalley come in on the right. Cheers, Harry

Bollox to giving the manager any money. IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! TTA have stated that their aim is to put the club on an even footing financially. The simple fact that the land sale for housing is on hold for the forseeable future means the only way redevelopment will start is for 1 or more of our players selling for big money. Or City sell Micah The money from Eardley's sale, if it is true, will go into rebuilding the Broadway stand. And so it should. Any let office space and other facilities like banqueting income will then go to cover overheads and put us at the breakeven situation that TTA have promised. In any event I can't see us getting £3million for Eards. Blackburn are having to pay Arsenal 50% of the profit on the Bentley fee and so haven't as much money as you would think. The only way they will have a big budget is if they sell Santa Cruz and our old Secretary Tom Finn fools Ince and his Chairman Williams into giving us a big chunk.

Interesting that you refer to "yard dogs." Tuesday night for me was the first time I have seen 1 of our teams set up in the Royle mould since big Joe left us. By that I mean a solid 4-4-2. The midfield in particular in the first half had a definate Royle look about it. 2 snapping yard dogs in the middle who are also comfortable on the ball in Allott and Maher was so reminiscent of Milligan and Henry. Got their foot in and played simple and effective balls. They were well supported by the 2 widemen Taylor and Phillips. Not quite Adams and Holden, but certainly a league 1 equivalent. The philopsophy is quite straightforward. Win the ball and play simple. Simple balls out to the wide men or threaded through to the 2 up top - O'Grady and Davies - I think that Allott and Maher will be the preferred midfield pairing providing they retain form and fitness. They both have the discipline that Henry and Milligan had, knowing that if one goes forward the other needs to hold and "fill the hole." A discipline that for me was lacking in the Wellens/McDonald partnership in Shez's 1st season and one in all honesty that was missing all of last season where we muddled through trying to find the right balance, but never getting there, mainly because for 1 reason or another, mainly injuries, the team was constantly changed. Stability in this vital area this season would make a world of difference. Cheers, Harry