Harry Dowds Green Shirt

"Well what if every season ticket holder got a unique user name and password, The club could quite easily integrate ticket sales software into their existing platform (i.e. the club shop online sales) and fans could buy their tickets online saving queuing time." Please see the point in my last post about the on line ticketing system which is due to be/has recently been activated. This will do exactly what you are asking for to cut down on queuing times. "Also why have the club never looked at things like automated telephone sales?" I don't know. Have they not looked into this? Do you know? What is the cost to the club of introducing this? Would the club not be better putting such costs into improving other areas of the club in the short term? i.e the playing staff Would it not be better to introduce such system when they move offices to the new main stand on the Broadway side, when they are likely to also be installing a new phone system in any event? "There's so much scope for improvement regarding ticket sales that suggesting the current system works is a bit archaic to say the least. " I don't disagree but you really do not know what is happening behind the scenes as the club plan to redevelop the ground move the offices and bring themselves into the 20th, oops sorry, 21st century. "The people who work there are fine it's just at times communication is a problem and it’s the fans who suffer." Whilst you believe this to be the case, the club will not be able to keep everyone happy all the time. At the same time you must remember the sterling job Stu Vose does with the web site and the number of articles he posts daily including times when he is not officially working. I can't believe that you would say that communication is not any better now than it was say 5 years ago. At the same time I'm sure the club would say that things could be improved further and that mistakes have been / are made. "When we phoned the office to enquire about the second tier we were told they would be on sale at the same time, then on our arrival on first day of sale no tickets available, hence communication problems." Yep mistakes are sometimes made, just as they are in other businesses. The club also employ a number of part time staff particularly on match day and busy times, i.e cup games like Everton and it does therefore make it more difficult. "I attend a lot or all of the away games most seasons and I use the club shop and ticket office regularly. Perhaps it’s just because of the volume in which I use them that I find it unsatisfactory on occasion." I know from your posts on here your devotion (and frustration) to the club/team, but your original post was not as well thought out as your subsequent posts have been. I/m sure that its frustration that got to you especially after that 1st half yesterday. I know. I was sat in the Chaddy yesterday totally cheesed off for 45 minutes and I have been for a number of games this season. Still I try and keep it reasonable. At the end of the day I want our club "little old Owdham" to do well. It really makes me happy when we win and I want that as much as the next fan........ Well, except??? No I won't go there Cheers, Harry

"What happened to point 7 after the first 6? " Oh dear. I forgot to edit that 1. Dam "Also you can't be serious by saying this club handles ticket sales well at any level, Why the hell in this day and age do season ticket holders have to queue in excess to get match tickets?" Actually yes I am saying that the club handles ticket sales well, particularly with the conditions it continues to have to endure. In answer to your question why you have to queue in this day and age to get match tickets, the answer is quite simple. Despite investing in new ticketing technology prior to the start of the 05/06 season that has a capacity to serve in around 4,000 tickets per day (meaning we could sell all tickets for the current capacity in 3 days even if we had the large section of the RRE for our own fans) the current cramped ticket office only allows a limited number to be actually dealt with. As you are more than likely aware the club does have plans to redevelop the stadium and part of the redevelopment will involve the relocating of the offices to the new Broadway stand with a more than adequate new ticket office. Despite best efforts to get this development up and running the owners have suffered a number of setbacks over the last 3/4 e.g. OMBC's holding up of planning permission. That really is the reason why we have the queues we still have today. I am sure you would therefore agree that the club have been and indeed are doing something about it. If you have any sensible suggestions, I am sure Messrs Corney & Hardy would be delighted to hear from you. (Please use the usual e-mail addresses) "The play-offs last year were abysmal." Why? Every Oldham supporter who wanted a ticket got 1. In fact we still had room left. If you are referring to the queues on the Sunday etc, well first see my point above. secondly, what else would you have reasonably suggested ? "Everton was appalling season ticket holders on the first day of sale got the worst seats, any game that’s all ticket is horrendous!" Really! Do you know what the instructions were from Everton, the organising club, as to what order the tickets had to be sold. If you did, then you would not make that comment. OAFC have to follow the instructions as stated by the home club, which have been drawn up under the conditions of their safety licence in consulation with the police, their safety officer and the Council. The same rules also apply to clubs visiting BP. "Away games are advertised on the web as being on sale and when you get to the ticket office they haven’t arrived." I haven't seen that one myself, but am aware that tickets sometimes do not arrive when expected. It usually depends how they have been despatched from the home club. "The club is in the dark ages and the people who work there do a fantastic job to cope." Actually its the ground thats (for the most part) in the dark ages, but as has been said, the club are trying to do something about that. I know for a fact that the people who work there are sometimes as frustrated as the people queuing outside. e.g. the longer the queues the longer they have to work and spend time away from their families etc. "My argument is with the powers that be not changing with the times." Why? surely the spending of a six figure sum on the planning application and associated works and fees to try and get the redevelopment of the ground up and running is a sign that they are trying to move with the times. They know that we cannot carry on as we are and I am sure that in the long run they cannot/will not continue to fund losses approaching 3/4 of a million £'s each year. If you are referring still to the ticketing situation, then spending a 5 figure sum on the new system in the last 3 years and the plans to relocate to a new office facility show that they are attempting to move with the times. Sometimes you just cannot do it as quickly as everyone would like. By the way, I think the the club are still waiting for the tickets to be made available on line by the system operator. (although this may have happened in the last couple of weeks or so) Once on line this will present another option for purchase for most games. I think it will be of big benefit on all ticket home games especially for season ticket holders although as usual with this type of system there will be an admin charge/booking fee payable to the operator. However at least it is an alternative. "If your trying to make the club look like a good investment to outsiders you have to convince your own first. " Whilst that it a fair a valid point, you also have to say that you need your own to give you a fair chance of doing so. "If your happy with things i am glad for you." I didn't say I was happy with everything ( see my comments on http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13108 ) I was purely replying to your posting which I thought was unfair and needed a counter argument. This season has been hugely disappointing for all concerned, management, players, supporters, TTA. A small club like ours really needs as many people as possible to stick together to help it progress. We have needed stability since the end of the M**re era in the summer of 2003. TTA have provided that financially to date, but it can't and won't continue for ever. We have had enough promise and potential this last 3 years to be there or thereabouts on the pitch. What is needed now is some stability in the squad this summer instead of wholesale changes and with a few additions, as I stated on another thread, together with some luck with injuries, there is a good possibility that next season we can take it that 1 stage further. If that happens, the frustrations that we are seeing on this board, like this matter, will not be issues I am sure. Instead the moaners will start with " This club lacks ambition, it doesn't want to/can't afford to stay in the Championship." Cheers , Harry

Now you really are talking . lets take your points 1 by 1. 1) "Is this poxy club taking the p!55 completely out of its fans now or what?" - Er no. 2) "What if a father and child turn up to get on the coach and there's no room left? Imagine the disappointment for the child at least." - Well the tickets have been available for booking for well over two weeks including both before & after the match yesterday. They have therefore had plenty of time to plan their weekend. 3) "Are we really that strapped for cash that we are willing to disappoint some of our fans and inconvenience them just to fill ten seats?" - FFS there are 10 places left. What should the club do? not tell anyone and run the coach at 80% full? Lets put this another way, what if a father & son found at the last minute that they could go & they didn't have any transport of their own? 4) "Are we really that strapped for cash that we are willing to disappoint some of our fans and inconvenience them just to fill ten seats?" - In what way are they willing to disappoint some of our fans and inconvenience them by letting it be known that there are still a few places left on a coach and that there is a still a way of taking advantage of the fact in case anyone finds themselves in a position to go and watch the team at the last minute. 5) "Surely by putting this on the web they are acknowledging that some fans will miss out that's why the systems are in place that you book at the club shop in advance to avoid situations like this." Can't get my head round the 1st part of this. Why are the club acknowledging that some fans will miss out? Do you know that more than 10 people will tun up? Your right that systems are in place to let people book in advance who know that they will be going. This lets the club know whether they need 1, 2, 3 or more coaches. But surely they should then let those who have been uncertain or only made their mind up at the last minute that there is still an option and on what basis it is available. 6) "This club has never got ticketing right in any spectrum but this is ludicrous." Really! What is wrong with the way the club runs it's season ticket policy? What is wrong with the way the club operates it's match day ticket policy? What is wrong with the way the club operates it's away ticket policy? What is wrong with the way the club operates it's all ticket policy? what was wrong with the way the club operated its policy for issuing tickets for the 2 matches played at Wembley? There is absolutely no justification in what you said. 6) "How can we ask people to invest in this shower of s4!te both on and off the field?" - Well what you do is: - (1) when you put season tickets on sale you state that the aim is promotion and by playing attractive free flowing football and that you are going to sign premiership class players to do it. (2) You employ an able commercial manager who doesn't miss a trick and who makes sure that the coaches are always full to away games (3) you go all out to attract sponsorship and advertising partners by telling them that they can reach at least 2k numpties and 2k happy clappers at every home game and that the cost of doing so is really cost effective Does that answers your questions????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Andy Goram isn't actually one of our own. We signed him from West Brom after he was released following a fall out with big Ron Atkinson. He was actually nearly 18 or just 18 when Big Joe signed him. IIRC we had Martin Hodge on loan and he got injured after a couple of matches and Goram was thrown into the team never to look back. Amazing how a Bury born & bred lad could develop a Scottish accent after a couple of years in Glasgow. Home grown team 1) John Platt 2) Nick Sinclair 3) Carl Serrant 4) Nick Henry 5) Keith Hicks 6) Will Hainning 7) Andy Sweeney 8) Wayne Harrison 9) Jim Steele 10) Mark Robbins 11) Carl Valentine SUBS: 12) Chris Ogden 13) Andy Barlow 14) Will Haining 15) Mike Milligan 16) Mike Cecere Now that team would get us out of this god dam league. All of them played at Championship or Premiership level with the exception of Haining who has gone on to prove himself in that top league north of the border

Andy Goram isn't actually one of our own. We signed him from West Brom after he was released following a fall out with big Ron Atkinson. He was actually nearly 18 or just 18 when Big Joe signed him. IIRC we had Martin Hodge on loan and he got injured after a couple of matches and Goram was thrown into the team never to look back. Amazing how a Bury born & bred lad could develop a Scottish accent after a couple of years in Glasgow. Home grown team 1) John Platt 2) Nick Sinclair 3) Carl Serrant 4) Nick Henry 5) Keith Hicks 6) Will Hainning 7) Andy Sweeney 8) Wayne Harrison 9) Jim Steele 10) Mark Robbins 11) Carl Valentine SUBS: 12) Chris Ogden 13) Andy Barlow 14) Will Haining 15) Mike Milligan 16) Mike Cecere Now that team would get us out of this god dam league. All of them played at Championship or Premiership level with the exception of Haining who has gone on to prove himself in that top league north of the border

No Comment Harry should have been sat with me in the Ford Stand that day. Cheers Harry

Indeed, The £70,000 was made up of winning all 8 monthly prizes of £2,500 and then obviously as we had won each month we topped the end of year figures to claim the £50,000 prize. A strange fact was that the competition was run over the first 42 league games (it did not apply to cup ties either) only so that the first and second divisions were on an equal footing with divisions 3 and 4. In our first 42 matches we only had 4, yes that is 4, bookings and no sendings off. In match 43, which if memory serves me right was at home to Colchester, we had 4 players booked in the 1 game, but it did not count to our record in the competition. Can you imagine today only having 4 bookings in a whole season? I can just see the likes of Clattenburg and Wiley etc. You would have to stitch their pockets up The first match that the new stand was open for was the following season (The stand was built between June and November) for a match televised by Granada against Aston Villa. We lost 0-6 with Andy Lockhead netting a hatrick for the Villa.

Young Anthony Greenhouse is joining City and following Lee Magic Hands Nobes. I believe that he has been poached. As for the new 1st team physio, Matt Jenkinson, I am not aware why he has gone, but when I saw him at the team hotel at Bristol, he looked an isolated figure. Maybe he has just not fitted in. I'm sure it will come out in time. With regard to the ground redevelopment the club cannot do anything until 3 months after planning has been granted to allow for legal challenge as set down in the planning rules. They also have to comply with the pre start conditions which were attached to the planning permission and have these approved in writing by the Council before they start any work including the demolition. They will then have to agree a start date with the contractor. Whilst TTA may have been keen to start asap, at the end of the day they make/sell telephones and are not property developers. Cheers Harry

Decent post DW, although not really controversial Whilst i take your points in general, on a personal note I have enjoyed the owtb forums more than the others previously on offer. There are still a number of "debates" on here, indeed only last week there was a fairly major falling out with corporal jones with a number of posters. In reality it was only a major difference of opinion, but does show that the debates can and do take place. The moderating is imo reasonable. We also don't suffer from the idiotic invading from the hub cap thiefs etc and after the ridiculous uproar on JK when we signed Lee Hughes I decided to stop using that forum altogether. Any way each to their own and I await your new thread entitled "Bring back our best ever manager - Ronnie Moore." Cheers Harry PS If you think you can get away with swearing on here you can p*ss right off (awaits edit by mod)

5 please mr beard. I'll check with Alan groves perm tonight, but I think that their will be me, nava, alangroves perm, neil adams headband, and andy richies hairgel. Cheers, Harry

If we got the sort of keeper you describe, we would soon lose him to a premiership team because the attributes you describe just aren't around in league 1 and I am struggling to think of too many in the championship. When Pogs was at his best in the Dowie season and kept that record number of clean sheets he regularly came for crosses and commanded his box etc. However even his odd mistake that season was met with derision from some of our "supporters." Pogs unfortunately is a confidence person and when his confidence went so did his game and that was why he was and still is a league 1 keeper. Whilst I was unsure about Crossley earlier in the season, since he has come back from his injury he has proved to be a very good acquisition and over the last few weeks has been exceptionally consistent (the goal against Gillingham excepted.) At the moment I cant think of too many keepers in league 1 that I would say "I would have him in goal instead." I certainly hope we get at least another season out of him. As for your comment about him being a shot stopper and thats it, I think you maybe somewhat blinkered. He is clearly an excellent organiser and motivator of the players in front of him. The back 5 play as a unit and he is clearly a big part of that. You dont have as good a defensive record as we have this season without all the defence including your keeper playing to a high standard.

Currently standing at 89 (either current or old or both grounds) of the present 92 league teams. If you add in the conference premier etc of ex league clubs there are a further 7, Torquay, Cambridge, York, Oxford, Rushden, Halifax & Southport taking me to 96. All watching the mighty blues. Then theres St. Mirren (Anglo Scottish cup), Wembley of course. Besides grounds where I have watched the tics, I've been to Barcelona, Tenerife, seen Mallorca (but not a game) Went to Frankfurt for the world cup (didn't get in) Benfica for Euro 2004 and a few non league grounds for cup games and friendlies. The currenty league grounds I haven't seen the tics on are Barnet, Dagenham and Morecombe for obvious reasons. Hopefully 1 day I will be able to say that I have been on the "current 92 to see the Latics." Cheers, Harry

Tramtacks/Scandals/Roystons/Eros are a number of names the place traded under. Scene of an end to a cracking stag night in 1984. Also the venue for Darren McDonagh being ejected one night and ripping the front door off as the bouncers tried to get him out. The place was demolished in 2003. The demolition contractor we used ripped up the sunken round dance floor and we found the old tracks on the turning head which was obviouslty the reason for the sunken and round dance floor. Spent many a night in there and never realised why the dance floor was like that. Mind you I didn't spend much time on the dance floor in any case.

I've got to come back on that one corporal. You really either need to get your facts right or take maths lessons. 700 fans at £12 per fan (thats having taken off the vat and averaging out for adults, oap's and juniors) = £8,400 per game which in turn = £193,200 per 23 game season which finally = £3,715 per week. So no 700 fans doesn't equate to roughly £10 - £15,000 each home game or as you say "something close to those weekly losses." And yes you actually did say that so please don't deny it (Unless of course the £10 that you state is actually ten pounds and not ten thouseand pounds. ) Come to think of it the way your maths work, your figures are actually a hell of a lot closer to £10 than the actual weekly losses you are trying to equate the extra 700 fans to.

No I'm not. See my username. Although it appears that I have been accused of GHOST writting for Alan Hardy today. I've made my point to you as clearly as I can. Obviously you and I will continue to have a different point of view. Only time will tell who will be proved write. For now though I don't intend to to and fro over another 20 posts to come back with the same end point that we continue to disagree. Cheers, Harry

I'll have to get our James to have "a word" with you you Johnny.

Not even close. I'll give you a clue. See you on the Beardy bus at Vale!

Your are correct there corporal. We currently average just under 5,800 for league games this season and last season we averaged just over 6,100. Whilst other people have mentioned a figure of around 4,000, this was I believe taken as purely home supporters only in times of low crowds as in last Tuesdays game against Carlisle. However such low figures also have to be taken in context against other clubs crowds that night. Go and have a look if you haven't already done so. The figure I used was not plucked out of the air. It is the figure that TTA used to put their business plan together 4 years ago when they first came in. That was the average figure at the time as put out in documentation from the Administrator. As I said in my earlier post part of a medium to long term business plan to put the club on a level field financially. However I take your point 1 stage further to take into account the revised and upto date figures that your posts clearly suggest I should use. The current average attendance is 5,800. The break even figure is around 7,800-8,000. The additional annual income stream from the ground redevlopment will be in excess of £1million or equivallent to around 3,500 - 4,000 per home league game giving an equivalent average home attendance (Please note total home and away fans) of around 9,200 - 9,700. That would take us to a position where the break even income level of today is exceeded and provide additional funding for the manager to invest in the team in terms of a stronger squad (numbers) or better quality players (wages) and or transfer fees. As a worst scenario, the additional income would be an extra £350K on top of this seasons budget. Using the average attendance level of 6,500 that TTA have based their business plan on that would provide an additional £750K - £800K of additional funding each season. As both Rummy, IC and BB80 have said previously there is a plan. It just appears that you either don't believe it, don't undersatnd it, are too impatient or have lost the faith. Alternatively you are just totally bored and fancy having a discussion over a number of days on a message board to waste the days away The summer of 2003 will stay in the minds of many fans for a long time. However, I have been close enough to the situation to remember the equally worrying times of 1982, 1984, 1999 and 2001 to know that if a business plan such as that currently being run by TTA is not implemented, then we will not be needing to worry about having debates on this board about investment and trying to achieve promotion. Instead we will be talking over old times with misty eyes about when we had a club, because that is the only place we will be going. Not up, not down, but into oblivion. So I return to the theme of my earlier post and re-iterate that to attain the succes that you and we all crave , we need stability. That stability in my opinion needs to be in sticking with the current management team, giving them time and backing to create the team they want to build. Stability in terms of finance by creating additional income from the stadium development that will be in the bank before we kick off each season and the further stability that brings to future financial backing to add to and improve the team. One final point for you to ponder. In terms of longer term planning (and I know you don't like to think long term, only short term and the here and now) have you noticed anything on the ground re-development plans that hasn't been mentioned yet? If not, take a look at the back section of the RRE stand. Have TTA got further ideas to re-develop this stand in the future to create additional income when funding permits? I don't know the answer to this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, because they are obviously forward thinking. Thanks for the banter. Cheers, Harry

Well, well, well, lets just throw some money at it like Jimmy Frizz and Joe Royle did shall we. Oh hang on! did they not throw money at it to get us promotion. You know the only 2 managers to achieve promotion at our money laden club in the last 40 years. What's that? No they didn't! They did it by working within their crappy budgets, selling our better players and using only some of the proceeds to bring new players in to strengthen their squad overall and at the same time paying off general losses/debts. Don't be daft boys and girls. Look back at history it tells you how to succeed. 1) Give a manager time to build his team. 2) Work to a sensible business plan/budget 3) Work to improve revenue streams to ensure any success can be maintained at a higher level for the long term. In terms of those 3 points, we need to back and stick with Sheridan. Yes he has and will make mistakes. JF & JR both did as well. We are working to a sensible business plan at this moment in time even though that is currently being subsidised by tta to make it a balanced budget. In terms of point 3, several posters have made reference to our break even figure. TTA have consistently stated the stadium re-development is crucial to a longer term startegy. The ground redevelopment should be financed by the selling off land for housing. If sufficient funds are received from this then the following additional income will be achievable from the re-invested income: - 1) Rental income from offices to private sector £600K 2) Private boxes income 18 @ £10K = £180K 3) Conferencing & banquetting facilities £100K - £250K 4) Income off rental of health club facilities - £50K - £100K The additional income has the same effect as bringing another 3,500 -4,000 fans in through the turnstiles each game (thats pay on the day not season tickets equivalent for those pedantic posters) Add that to the current avearge of 6,500 and you end up with an equivalent of 10,000 fans coming through the turnstiles each match. Our break even figure is around 8,000 so you end up with additional income to reinvest in transfer fees and or wages. That in simple terms is how we make progress. That is how TTA are planning. It is not a quick solution. It is taking longer than they originally planned, but, and this is the important part, they are getting there and that is how we would have a better chance of sustaining ourselves if and when we achieve the ultimate aim of promotion. I know that the above won't satisfy some people on here, BUT THAT IS TTA'S PLAN AND THEY ARE ON THEIR WAY TO ACHIEVING SUCCESS WITH IT. Cheers, Harry

I think we have found senor coconuts alter ego.

Corporal, To an extent you are right. However gates at that level were experienced in both the Frizzell & Royle eras and that was at 2nd division (championship) level. Also you cannot go on for too long with that level of attendances without hitting financial difficulties. Your statement regarding the directors having (a) the foresight or ( the ability to attract new investment, while we were in the premier league has some merit. However, I know that during that time efforts were made to attract new investors but despite best efforts, no one came forward. Remember as far back as Marks and Spencers proposed new store on Clayton Playing fields etc. Such efforts have always been thwarted by one party or another (in a number of cases the Council) I know that it was not for lack of trying that new investment was not achieved. Furthermore, what has been achieved in recent times? JW Lees could not sell their shares depsite making it known that they wanted out. Three directors bought those shares with a view to finding a long term buyer. The best they could come up with was Chris Moore. His obligation in the contract was to invest £1.5 million over a 3 year period. He messed up and wrote off a further £4 million in loans he had put into the club over 2 years. We then had the period of uncertainty and the Norwegian fiasco before TTA came to the rescue. It is alright saying that had the directors had the foresight. The fact is the ability to find Oldhams equivalent of Jack Walker or Dave Whelan is extremely limited and in all honesty I am not aware of such a person at that level being an Oldham fan. In terms of the wider business community, well Boundary Park has always had its vast land bank yet no one has previously managed to grab the mantle to develop it to its full potential until now. I fully believe that we are lucky to have our current owners who have had the ability and patience to take us forward to what hopefully will be a period of stability and hopefully promotion. I am not trying to score point or have an argument with you or anyone else for that matter, but those are the facts that I am aware of and I hope they help a little. Regards, Harry

This topic started off with the yet unconfirmed rumour started off by a jounalist in Plymouth that his/her local club was closing in on Trotman. No quotes, no innuendoes, nothing substantive. The thread has degenerated in my opinion into a no win debate. We all have our opinions and most are unlikely to change theirs particularly whilst we are all depressed about results and lack of goals, Saturday's in particular, and generally since the win at Everton. Over the years whilst as a club we have been in the doldrums this is a recurring theme, our crowds have gone up and down, reflecting our various successes and failures and stagnations. I pose this question. Did staying in the old second division, now Championship, for an unbroken period of 16 years class as a success? If it did, why did our crowds drop as low as 2,800? And would you take that same situation again i.e. 16 successive years in the championship? In those 16 years we were undoubtedly a selling club and for 14 of those 16 years we raised more from selling players than we spent bringing players in. However with 2 excellant managers and a board that (despite critisism from fans) allowed stability for the manager to build a team within budgets (albeit where player sales formed part of the budget) we became a stronger team and club and eventually had some short term success before the inevitable fall from grace. Talking of the Trotman situation today reminds me so much of the late 70's under Sir Jimmy when despite the critisism, the Club sold Simon Stainrod to QPR for £275,000. His relacement was one Roger Palmer, who cost £70,000. Now at the time supporters were gutted, but the manager and the board knew what they were doing. It was a constant theme. Royle did the same. Sell Mark Ward to West Ham for £250,000 and re-invest some of that money on other players to generally improve the squad overall. Later that season he brought in Mick Quinn for £52,000 and sold him 2 years later to Portsmouth for £150,000. Its the way of the world on gates of 5,000. Tbh I would have sold Porter last season for the money we were offered, especially if tta would have let the manager re-invest in the team. With the stadium re-development and consequential increase in revenues to help us become self sufficient just around the corner and if there is a serious offer now for any of our better players and the money is made available to strenghten the squad, again I would take it and start buidling now for next season. This season we are not going up. We are not good enough or strong enough. We do not want or need the hassle of wholesale changes again in the summer. We need some stability. 2 or 3 players in this window, 3/4 in the summer and 2/3 next January in the window is the way to go. Stabilty is what we need to progress. History backs that up and if the odd sacrifice has to be made then so be it. Finally, can anyone name a centre half around Trotman's age and played a similar amount of games and who in the last 3 years has gone from League 1 to the Championship or Premiership for either £350,000 or £500,000 or more?

OK so under 4's/5's get lifted over the turnstikes, but that happens at every match so it was no different on boxing day. Also I don't get your point about the guy on the turnstile. You say you don't buy the technology stuff then say you wouldnt hang your hat on the guy on the turnstile. Are you saying you don't trust anything? Just out of interest what exactly would you believe?

QUOTE(Kingofdikebab @ Dec 27 2007, 16:26 PM) Even if there were 1,000 spaces in the Chaddy and 500 in the Main Stand and Lookers that would have meant 7500 Oldham fans which looks a lot closer to the mark than 6500. Forest also looked like a 2000 following to me. Official crowd 8,140. True crowd probably closer to 9,500 ( . KOTK QUOTE(edhunteruk @ Dec 27 2007, 18:41 PM) they have always cooked the books so to speak regarding attendance figures. that said there were a few empty seats in the chaddy near us,but i doubt as much as there saying. defo 1k missing off that total. Amazing, we are on an 11 game unbeaten run and the conspiaracy theorists on here still find a way to have a pop at the club. Prozac has given a full run down and what he says is spot on. Don't you get it? It is nigh on impossible for the club to fiddle the gate. If they did, with the Police in attendance at each and every game and monitoring their crowd control screens, any discrepancy would be picked up and the club would be on a charge for each and every act of fraud. Just for information, in the main stand yesterday, there were 15 seats unsold in blue block, 80 odd in grey and 70 odd in white total unsold main stand upper = approx 170 out of a total of 1544 i.e over 10%. (Also there are the season ticket holders who don't attand for 1 reason or another, but whose seats cannot be resold.) I pose the question did it look like there were 10% unsold seats in the main stand? From my seat in the Chaddy End it looked full, but as I said that wasn't the case. As for the NSM paddock being full, you must be joking! It was probably only just over half full. There were empty seats all over the place and the end section at the Rochdale Road end was closed off completely. Also remember back to the Forest game last season when there were over 8,000 home fans. People were being moved out of the Chaddy End into the Paddock, yet the Chaddy was not full. The reason? there were losts of odd seats spread around. People either couldn't find them, didn't want to sit behind them (they were behind pillars) or they wanted 2 or more together. Unless it is an all ticket game with reserved seating the club has to reduce capacity where it is using unreserved seating by 10% to comply with the conditions of the safety certificate, so in every stand bar the main stand upper, capacity is cut by 10%. Chaddy end 350, NSM Upper 140, NSM lower 120, Main Paddock 90. None of those stands reached capacity. The closest was the NSM upper. Hope this helps people understand how things operate.

Marhar I'm glad you e-mailed AH and as always I see you got a reply. Just a few points for you to note "marhar" and others: - 1) For the Everton game, you could still have paid for your tickets over the phone and then picked them up between now and the game, e.g on the day of either the Forest or Walsall matches or any other working day if that was convenient for you. Others do this. The tickets are put in an envelope and then filed ready for collection. 2) The ticket office feels like it was designed about 2,000 years ago. In years gone by you were only able to buy tickets for what is now the main stand upper from there. After the Broadway stand was built, you could buy tickets for that stand from there upto 1pm on a match day after which you bought them from the Broadway stand ticket office which was staffed by match day staff. You hardly ever had any all ticket games in those days as the stadium was mainly standing and had a capacity of around 26,000. Since the Bradford fire and Heysel disasters, much has been done to stadiums in general including BP. However this has brought its own problems for oafc and there are a lot more ticket options to deal with now. Whilst the club have introduced a new computerised ticket system in the last 2 and a half years which has improved matters greatly for normal everyday situations, there are still problems with the office itself not least its size and therefore the ability to deal with an all ticket game i.e. Blackpool last season and matches like Everton and Leeds away over the festive period. The club are investing in new facilities in the new Broadway stand and having spoken to Simon Corney about the problem I believe that we will have much improved facilities. 3) I have worked on both match day and at other busy times in the ticket office since 1975 so know full well what problems are often encountered by supporters. I know that the club and AH in particular go to a lot of time and effort in planning arrangements. However, no one is perfect and there will not always be the perfect solution for everyone so bear this in mind. 4) You can pay for match tickets with credit/debit cards. Its free with a debit card and 2% with a credit card. IIRC the reason for not being able to buy a season ticket with a credit card was because the club went into administration (I stand to be corrected on this) The credit card companies would not release all the season ticket money to clubs who have been in administration as they are seen as a bad credit risk and if the club went bump, then the season ticket holders who have paid by credit card could make application to the credit card company for a refund. 5) Returning to the size of the ticket office. The new system is really really efficient. However, it is not possible to have more than 2 people working in there serving now. Previously you could have 3 people serving. It is not an issue of the club not having enough staff, it is the physical size of the ticket office that is the problem. For the Blackpool game, we could sell 2,500 tickets in a day with 2 people serving and others taking telephone orders. When the new stand is built I would hope that there will be facilities to possibly/probably treble the current situation and therefore have the ability to sell around 7,500 tickets per day. With the home capacity at around 13,000 that should be sufficeint to solve most peoples problems. Finally, I know that the full time staff work their socks off. If you have a problem, e-mail the club. They will usually have a solution to help with your problem. Unless of course its a play off/cup game and you think you are the dogs wotsits and should have preferential treatment because you are a really super, super fan who is a better class of supporter. Even if you don't have a season ticket, don't go to every away game, (which the club should have a system for recording all individuals purchase details for) or contribute to the club in another way Cheers, Harry PS. Wont be able to post anything further tonight as my home internet connection is down.