Hometownclub Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 time for some FACTS lol greegs played nineteen times last season, and we lost eight FACT he missed thirty six games, of which we lost nine FACT as soon as he got injured we instantly stopped losing FACT as soon as he returned we instantly lost FACT if there is a pillock on this board with a selective memory it aint me FACT Don't let it get to you, I'm just expressing my honest opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 fair enough, fortunately for you theres no law against being wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 fair enough, fortunately for you theres no law against being wrong Fair enough, fortunately for SHEZ there's no law against being wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 time for some FACTS lol greegs played nineteen times last season, and we lost eight FACT he missed thirty six games, of which we lost nine FACT as soon as he got injured we instantly stopped losing FACT as soon as he returned we instantly lost FACT if there is a pillock on this board with a selective memory it aint me FACT Well that's that. The stats never lie! So please point this out to Shez asap.....although I doubt there would be any clubs willing to take him off our wage bill..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 (edited) I'm liking it......6 centre forwards (ish), 2 out on loan, 1 injured/crap...1 stupidly suspended..leaves 2 (1 not a fully fledged centre forward at that)........5 centre halves....1 out on loan till Jan, 1 released as is injured.....1 permanently injured(sorry stammy).....that leaves us 2.....let's get rid of 1!?!?!? Reason for edit; Forgot about Hughes!! Edited November 6, 2008 by futchers briefs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well that's that. The stats never lie! So please point this out to Shez asap.....although I doubt there would be any clubs willing to take him off our wage bill..... I remember not too long ago stats being used to tell us how effective Liddell is with goal assists. Now, we have the stats to show that the defence was more successful without Gregan. So are the stats to be dismissed as a whole or selectively used to suit one's arguments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I remember not too long ago stats being used to tell us how effective Liddell is with goal assists. Now, we have the stats to show that the defence was more successful without Gregan. So are the stats to be dismissed as a whole or selectively used to suit one's arguments? I suspect strongly that the stats would show you that we were rubbish all round when both were missing. You can read as much or as little as you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I suspect strongly that the stats would show you that we were rubbish all round when both were missing. You can read as much or as little as you want. Or that we were better without both of them! Stats can indeed be interpreted. That's why we drag them out to suit our arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Or that we were better without both of them! Stats can indeed be interpreted. That's why we drag them out to suit our arguments. If you fancy being in the middle when OldhamSheridan marches down from his Durham dole centre and I travel up from the London one, caught in a pincer movement of righteous cidery/lagery fury, go right ahead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 If you fancy being in the middle when OldhamSheridan marches down from his Durham dole centre and I travel up from the London one, caught in a pincer movement of righteous cidery/lagery fury, go right ahead Meaning what, pray tell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Meaning what, pray tell? He's a statistician, I'm a business analyst, and we could knock you out individually with our alcohol breathe at 20 yards if you cost us our jobs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 He's a statistician, I'm a business analyst, and we could knock you out individually with our alcohol breathe at 20 yards if you cost us our jobs! I'm a real ale monster, I'll take my chances. Besides I'm an estimator with a calculator. Do you feel lucky, punk??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 I remember not too long ago stats being used to tell us how effective Liddell is with goal assists. Now, we have the stats to show that the defence was more successful without Gregan. So are the stats to be dismissed as a whole or selectively used to suit one's arguments? Fair point. However I will say that the Liddell assist stats mentioned by many (including me) were at least directly relevant to Lidds (and his primary role in the team), as opposed to attributing the teams' stats/results to whether Gregan was in the side or not. I mean his inclusion was hardly the only variable was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 two things 1. there not stats, theyre FACTS 2. they were not brought out to bolster and arguement, they were not even compiled when the arguement began. i only checked them as stitch and hometown seemed so convinced that i had false memories, i had a 0.00000001% nag that i was letting my opinion cloud my judgement. alas i wasnt, but i still had to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 two things 1. there not stats, theyre FACTS 2. they were not brought out to bolster and arguement, they were not even compiled when the arguement began. i only checked them as stitch and hometown seemed so convinced that i had false memories, i had a 0.00000001% nag that i was letting my opinion cloud my judgement. alas i wasnt, but i still had to know. I never questioned your memory, just your opinion. Some of your 'FACTS' were statistical. And aren't all stats factual? Not that it matters......same difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 yes but as has been previously noted if you type fact in capitals it makes it even more true FACT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 And aren't all stats factual? Yes, they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Fair point. However I will say that the Liddell assist stats mentioned by many (including me) were at least directly relevant to Lidds (and his primary role in the team), as opposed to attributing the teams' stats/results to whether Gregan was in the side or not. I mean his inclusion was hardly the only variable was it? Following your argument, then Stam's primary role was to stop the opposition scoring, therefore the stats state that he was a contributory factor in the improvement of goals conceded over Gregan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Fair point. However I will say that the Liddell assist stats mentioned by many (including me) were at least directly relevant to Lidds (and his primary role in the team), as opposed to attributing the teams' stats/results to whether Gregan was in the side or not. I mean his inclusion was hardly the only variable was it? So very true, now thats a FACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Following your argument, then Stam's primary role was to stop the opposition scoring, therefore the stats state that he was a contributory factor in the improvement of goals conceded over Gregan. Stam is lucky to still be at the club, and he wont be next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 So very true, now thats a FACT. If, as we have seen over the past few games, Liddell crosses the ball into the nearpost and both forwards are at the back post. Is the cross still a good one and the forwards are at fault because they aren't where Liddell put the ball or is it a bad cross because he's not looking up to see the forwards' movement? When the midfield are offensively playing well, Liddell has the time to cross a meaningful opportunity. Therefore the argument in comparison to the defence does not stand up to scrutiny. Liddell could not cross the ball if the other players did not make the space for him to do so. Therfore, it is not Liddell on his own but the midfield as a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 If, as we have seen over the past few games, Liddell crosses the ball into the nearpost and both forwards are at the back post. Is the cross still a good one and the forwards are at fault because they aren't where Liddell put the ball or is it a bad cross because he's not looking up to see the forwards' movement? When the midfield are offensively playing well, Liddell has the time to cross a meaningful opportunity. Therefore the argument in comparison to the defence does not stand up to scrutiny. Liddell could not cross the ball if the other players did not make the space for him to do so. Therfore, it is not Liddell on his own but the midfield as a unit. But we were discussing Gregan, not the defence, and it was yourself who brought the Lidds stats into it. I used the words 'directly relevant' when distinguishing what to make of them. Results aren't directly relevant to Greegs, assists awarded to Liddell clearly are. So, following your counter argurment, oh :censored: it im confused. Just take it from me, Greegs is our best defender. Easily......hence the strut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Stam is lucky to still be at the club, and he wont be next season. Well that's a considered response. Answer this, when I previously put forward stats about back four partnerships from last season, the best defensive goals conceded was Eardley/Trotman/Stam/Lomax followed by Eardley/Hazell/Stam/Lomax. Why was that? Was Stam just lucky? Or maybe that he might just be a better defender than you give him credit for!!! I have noticed a lot of blinkered views in here. When a player falls into a negative light on here, nothing will change that opinion. I take the view that all players deserve a continued runout until their form dictates otherwise. Last season, Stam was unlucky to be dropped. This season, both Liddell and Gregan started out far better than my expectations (and before anybody comments I have stated so on here) but both, in my opinion, have not warranted their automatic slot in the line-up in recent weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejh45 Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 But we were discussing Gregan, not the defence, and it was yourself who brought the Lidds stats into it. I used the words 'directly relevant' when distinguishing what to make of them. Results aren't directly relevant to Greegs, assists awarded to Liddell clearly are. So, following your counter argurment, oh :censored: it im confused. Just take it from me, Greegs is our best defender. Easily......hence the strut. That's the crux of the argument. He isn't our best defender. PROS - Wins headers in his immediate zone. - Times tackles very well. CONS - Current back four not talking and unsettled and disorganised. - Too slow and susceptible to being turned. If the argument about Liddell stood up, why aren't we getting the assists now? It's because he is not getting the space. It's a team game and you are not giving credit to the other midfield players. You are simply projecting a statistic on it's own. As far as defensive stats are concerned, a back four is better off without Gregan in his present form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted November 7, 2008 Share Posted November 7, 2008 Answer this, when I previously put forward stats about back four partnerships from last season, the best defensive goals conceded was Eardley/Trotman/Stam/Lomax followed by Eardley/Hazell/Stam/Lomax. Why was that? Was Stam just lucky? Or maybe that he might just be a better defender than you give him credit for!!! I'l answer. You're over simplifying it. There are so so many other factors to consider when attributing the causes of one defensive record against another. If we must go down the stats route lets at least find some directly relevant ones. Judging by your comments the team ought to be selected by a computer programme!! Gregan, for me, is superior to Stam in every single department, except maybe pace (in that Stam maybe isn't as slow). Stam's alright at this level, good infact, but Greegs is one of the premier centre halves players in this division. This is why it's Gregan plus Stam/Hazell and will always be so. I couldn't give flying :censored: how many games were won/lost with Greegs in/not in the team. That stat alone is worthless. So how about getting behind our massively determined captain who wants what we want and will do his upmost to achieve it? I dread to think what your opinions of some of our other centre halves of recent years were.....Gregan is a class act in comparison. If we had had more with his attitude and ability over the last 15 years we would have been out of this division long, long ago. Greeeeeeeeeeeeeegan.............Greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeegan.................Greeeeeee eeeeeeegan........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.