roytonboy Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 As Jac said, we are in almost a fasle position if the games played even themselves out We appear to be treading water water at best. If we want promotion this year the only catalyst I can see it to change the manager (unfortunatley) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The point I was making Stitch, is that fro me, you set out your stall with your best performing 11 on the field. The likes of Maher have been more effective than the likes of Whittaker over recent games, so why drop him? Stick with him. Play your players who have been playing well instead of about with it every 2 minutes. You don't need hindsight to tell you that. It's not only about that though is it? It's about the changes that he makes when things aren't working on the pitch. To me it was pretty obvious after half an hour that our front 2 were getting nothing last night cos all their centre halves had to do was get tight. There was no way we'd be getting in behind them, yet we don't make the changes until we are 2 down and chasing the game. No, the point you were making is that foresight plays a part. You used resting Maher as an example. I used the same example to show how hindsight seperates good decisions from mistakes. The decision to leave Maher out was a gamble lost. I too would have started Maher last night, but the fact remains that our current first choice 11 has 5 over thirties in it and that we are in the midst of FOUR GAMES IN TEN DAYS. Foresight tells me and presumably Shez that that is too much, so he rested one last night (the wrong one with hindsight, but then it is the midfield where we have some 'depth') and took two others off. Had we won, which most other days we would have, then Maher comes back in fresh for Millwall away and resting him proves a good decision, or a gamble paid off. If Maher played last night and then was poor on Saturday or Monday then people would be saying 4 games in ten days is too much and wanting to know why Shez isn't using his big squad. See my new sig....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 See my new sig....... Your new Sig is bang out of order, we're not fickle idiots, we're the fickle idiots that have turned up for 20 odd years, stood in the pissing rain whilst trying to save the club from folding. If we want to vent our spleen about our manager's shortcomings we will do, no amount of holier than thou trolling will change that. So take your new sig and shove it where the sun don't shine! Sick of the loser mentality this club has, through the fans right to the feckin' top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Blue Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Go now and get someone in who may give the team a fresh lift. He just makes career destroying and tactical baffling decisions. Everyone goes on about how we shouldnt moan as we were 4th (B 4 last night), but last night showed that confidence isnt there and we are there by fluke. We looked like a relegation team with 11 strangers, god knows how Windass is in the team and the decison to get rid of davies well and truly looks like its backfired. Sheridan is clueless and the sooner he is gone the better. People who actually think that we are seriously in the promotion mix up is viewing certainly has less vision that Stevie Wonder. Rant Over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shefflatic Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 He is out of contract in june so this whole 'BACK HIM OR SACK HIM' poll is a load of tosh. Signed a 3yr deal in 06. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Your new Sig is bang out of order, we're not fickle idiots, we're the fickle idiots that have turned up for 20 odd years, stood in the pissing rain whilst trying to save the club from folding. If we want to vent our spleen about our manager's shortcomings we will do, no amount of holier than thou trolling will change that. So take your new sig and shove it where the sun don't shine! Sick of the loser mentality this club has, through the fans right to the feckin' top! He says, whilst ignoring the rest of a well thought out post because it supports Sheridan. Why not put a counter argument to me to try and make me see it from your viewpoint? All I do is support the manager when I think it's due and 'vent my spleen' when I think that's due, for example when enduring what previous managers have served up. There are many idiots on here, most of them fickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Good managers never stop learning, but having been involved in the coaching set-up since 2001; Shez is far from a novice and has had more time rightly or wrongly than most manager's will ever get. Sheridan has established us as a top ten third division side and has brought a degree of stability to the club after the roller coaster ride under Talbot and Moore, but let's look at the reality of the situation - in all honesty the amount of people thinking Shez has taken us as far as he can is increasing by the day. He's been a great servant to the club but I think deep down he doesn't even believe in his own ability. The league was there to be walked two years ago, yet after hitting the top with 15 games to go we retreated into our shell playing stale, passionless football and most of the performances since (the odd brief purple patch apart) have mirrored this. Shez has had more money than any manager since our relegation in 1997, including Dowie and Wadsworth. The calibre of player he has been allowed to sign has been up there with anything our rivals have signed over the last three years. Nothing personal Shez, I'll wish him the best of luck when he leaves in May, the foundations are there we need someone to get us up a gear to make that final step. Well said. I fear we will never have a better chance to go up than we had in February 2007. The fiasco that followed has probably determined the whole future of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) No, the point you were making is that foresight plays a part. You used resting Maher as an example. I used the same example to show how hindsight seperates good decisions from mistakes. The decision to leave Maher out was a gamble lost. I too would have started Maher last night, but the fact remains that our current first choice 11 has 5 over thirties in it and that we are in the midst of FOUR GAMES IN TEN DAYS. Foresight tells me and presumably Shez that that is too much, so he rested one last night (the wrong one with hindsight, but then it is the midfield where we have some 'depth') and took two others off. Had we won, which most other days we would have, then Maher comes back in fresh for Millwall away and resting him proves a good decision, or a gamble paid off. If Maher played last night and then was poor on Saturday or Monday then people would be saying 4 games in ten days is too much and wanting to know why Shez isn't using his big squad. See my new sig....... It looks like we'll have to agree to disagree then Stitch. For me, you go with your best performing players (quite why Maher - as he's the example we are using - would need resting bearing in mind that he's probably played in less than half our games so far is beyond me anyway). What I do know (IMO like) is that it's becoming increasingly clear to me that the current manager does not have enough between his ears to get us over the finishing line. EDIT: I should just add to that the fact that I don't feel it's solely down to Shez as the players have to take some of the responsibilty, but ultimately the buck stops at the managers door. Edited February 25, 2009 by danoafc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 the reactions when we get beat off anyone are ridiculous, fans have a non realistic view of who we are and what we should be achieving. The more astute supporter has precisely the oppsite of 'a non-realistic view'. Each season we remain at this level diminishes our status in the game and helps shape the kind of future the club can look forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lookers_Carl Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 He is out of contract in june so this whole 'BACK HIM OR SACK HIM' poll is a load of tosh. Signed a 3yr deal in 06. He is out of contract in 2010 Linky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 The more astute supporter has precisely the oppsite of 'a non-realistic view'. Each season we remain at this level diminishes our status in the game and helps shape the kind of future the club can look forward to. 6th, 8th, and not yet out of the top 6... Could be and has been a LOT worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Sick of the loser mentality this club has, through the fans right to the feckin' top! That's the signature everybody on here ought to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 6th, 8th, and not yet out of the top 6... Could be and has been a LOT worse! Missing the point. The years spent at this level has seen the club shrink drastically in stature. As long as we are here this will continue, especially as the budget gets cut. League position has little to do with it. We could finish sixth and lose in the play-offs every season, but continue to shrink in stature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie82 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 He is out of contract in 2010 Linky Thats a shame, hopefully he will walk and save us some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritchie82 Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Shez in - on the whole he's doing a good job. Everyone makes mistakes. What mistakes are these? His :censored:e tactics? His inability to change his :censored:e tactics? His :censored:e signings? (When I say :censored:e signings I can't say the players are :censored:e as we have hardly seen Lee, Stephens or O'Grady this season) His :censored:e team selection? His seeming fetish for full backs? Why have half a dozen full backs but only 3 strikers? Personally I feel he should be fired for allowing Seb Hines to play football for the club I love. He is so :censored:e he'll fit right in at Middlesborough. Oh and don't get me started on us having Hartlepool's reserve keeper in net while our's is fit and ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Missing the point. The years spent at this level has seen the club shrink drastically in stature. As long as we are here this will continue, especially as the budget gets cut. League position has little to do with it. We could finish sixth and lose in the play-offs every season, but continue to shrink in stature. How do we stop this shrinkage then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 How do we stop this shrinkage then? Making a proper fist of promotion for a change would do for a start-which means getting things right at all levels of the club. However, as I've said elsewhere, I fear that the tipping point was 2006/7, and that the point of no return has been crossed. Hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leezyverpunk Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 You forgot to add that he's still learning. Unlike your good self who has become a seasoned veteran ....... sarky git!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Making a proper fist of promotion for a change would do for a start-which means getting things right at all levels of the club. However, as I've said elsewhere, I fear that the tipping point was 2006/7, and that the point of no return has been crossed. Hope I'm wrong. OK. So ignoring the point about how we should all lock ourselves in our homes and wait for the footballing Gods to take our team from us.... You're comment is pointlessly vague. If you will not accept another persons view I accept it, but you don't seem to have a basis for it... We've been 6th, 8th and Top6 under Shez, had a good stab under Dowie... it's not perfect but it's a bloody good effort. To get things right at all levels of the club requires time and stability to create, changing managers on a bianual basis is not going to give us that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 OK. So ignoring the point about how we should all lock ourselves in our homes and wait for the footballing Gods to take our team from us.... You're comment is pointlessly vauge. If you will not accept another persons view I accept it, but you don't seem to have a basis for it... We've been 6th, 8th and Top6 under Shez, had a good stab under Dowie... it's not perfect but it's a bloody good effort. To get things right at all levels of the club requires time and stability to create, changing managers on a bianual basis is not going to give us that... Yes, quite clearly I have argued for 'the football Gods...' and for Sheridan to be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Yes, quite clearly I have argued for 'the football Gods...' and for Sheridan to be sacked. Ummmm vague... My point of view (lets call it X) is: We've been 6th, 8th and Top6 under Shez, had a good stab under Dowie... it's not perfect but it's a bloody good effort. To get things right at all levels of the club requires time and stability to create, changing managers on a bianual basis is not going to give us that... Your view (lets call it Y) is: ????? I'm not trying to be obnoxious (maybe I am being though) I just want you to debate your view "Making a proper fist of promotion for a change would do for a start-which means getting things right at all levels of the club." with me without dodging the points I make. So please could you provide Y? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) Ummmm vague... My point of view (lets call it X) is: We've been 6th, 8th and Top6 under Shez, had a good stab under Dowie... it's not perfect but it's a bloody good effort. To get things right at all levels of the club requires time and stability to create, changing managers on a bianual basis is not going to give us that... Your view (lets call it Y) is: ????? I'm not trying to be obnoxious (maybe I am being though) I just want you to debate your view "Making a proper fist of promotion for a change would do for a start-which means getting things right at all levels of the club." with me without dodging the points I make. So please could you provide Y? No, of course I can't 'provide Y' (What's all this " 'let's call it 'X' and 'Y' " business? Are you another Polyversity student?) As I've said before, expressing dissatisfaction with what's happening on the pitch and suggesting that the future for the club might be less than rosy, particularly without some progress in the league position, doesn't mean that you necessarily have, or ought to have, a fully worked out set of solutions for the club. After all, the club pays others, and fairly handsomely, to take on this task. I can, however, guess what yet another failed promotion campaign might do to the club against a backdrop of a deepening recession which dictates that the club can't rebuild the stadium and put the club on an independent footing financially, and have done so already. All I can add is that '6th, 8th, top six under Shez and having a good stab under Dowie' represents no kind of progress when we remain mired in the third tier of English football, with gates falling to worse levels than during the Ritchie days. Edited February 25, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 What mistakes are these? His :censored:e tactics? His inability to change his :censored:e tactics? His :censored:e signings? (When I say :censored:e signings I can't say the players are :censored:e as we have hardly seen Lee, Stephens or O'Grady this season) His :censored:e team selection? His seeming fetish for full backs? Why have half a dozen full backs but only 3 strikers? Nah....his :censored:e results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edhunteruk Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 No, of course I can't 'provide Y' (What's all this " 'let's call it 'X' and 'Y' " business? Are you another Polyversity student?) As I've said before, expressing dissatisfaction with what's happening on the pitch and suggesting that the future for the club might be less than rosy, particularly without some progress in the league position, doesn't mean that you necessarily have, or ought to have, a fully worked out set of solutions for the club. After all, the club pays others, and fairly handsomely, to take on this task. I can, however, guess what yet another failed promotion campaign might do to the club against a backdrop of a deepening recession which dictates that the club can't rebuild the stadium and put the club on an independent footing financially, and have done so already. All I can add is that '6th, 8th, top six under Shez and having a good stab under Dowie' represents no kind of progress when we remain mired in the third tier of English football, with gates falling to worse levels than during the Ritchie days. the club under the tta's has never been on a better financial footing.and i for one am very pleased with what they have done,are doing and are trying to achieve. its just a shame that there commitment and desire isnt mirrored out on the playing field on a regular consistant basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrikkiNikki Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I've only ever seen Latics play in this division, but, i think I've watched every other team either :- Get promoted and some have come back down. Get promoted, get relegated and then get relegated again. Get relegated and some have come back up. Get relegated, get promoted and then get promoted again. Get promoted, promoted and promoted. We are (I think) the only team that's been in this division for 11 years and if anything, it is the sheer frustration of watching other teams on similar (not all of them) budgets and levels of support, getting promoted. We can point out that we are still top six, which is good, considering all the changes in personnel, but it is looking increasingly likely that we won't finish in the top six. He doesn't deserve to be sacked, but he does need to take a long, hard look at some of the decisions he had made regarding signings, squad choices and maybe even his managerial style. We started like a train, we are now like a horse and cart. Sorry, but I'm not confident of promotion this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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