singe Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Has he been softening us up, with all the doom and gloom, for the shared stadium announcement.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Has he been softening us up, with all the doom and gloom, for the shared stadium announcement.... It isn't doom and gloom I give you. It's present reality in advance. (Usually.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 8, 2009 Author Share Posted July 8, 2009 It isn't doom and gloom I give you. It's present reality in advance. (Usually.) I've done 3 polls already tonight. I don't think I should do a 4th to see if you are a Doom and Glloomer or not...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie_J Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 It isn't doom and gloom I give you. It's present reality in advance. (Usually.) I actually think you voice some valid concerns, albeit with tedious repetition, but 'present reality in advance'? Get over yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 We get extremes of views on this board, and as with most things in life the truth lies somewhere in between. For me The Corp balances out some of the rose tinted blind faith that we see everyday, though I do think he does highjack some threads to repeat the same points (sorry Corp ) There is no denying that the club has gone into decline in the last 15 years, and the plan TTA had for the club has been left in tatters by the financial melt down the globe has seen in the last year or so. But this doesn't mean this situation will last forever, I think there are still reasons to be optimistic. I think we could learn the lesson from the late 80's when out of the blue (pardon the pun) we got a young squad together that lead us to great things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 We get extremes of views on this board, and as with most things in life the truth lies somewhere in between. For me The Corp balances out some of the rose tinted blind faith that we see everyday, though I do think he does highjack some threads to repeat the same points (sorry Corp ) There is no denying that the club has gone into decline in the last 15 years, and the plan TTA had for the club has been left in tatters by the financial melt down the globe has seen in the last year or so. But this doesn't mean this situation will last forever, I think there are still reasons to be optimistic. I think we could learn the lesson from the late 80's when out of the blue (pardon the pun) we got a young squad together that lead us to great things. There is no 'getting back to normal' ahead for the economy, even if we get a semblance of 'boom' going. It is going to take decades to recover from what happened to the financial system, and if they try to reinflate the bubbles of the last ten years or so the only guarantee is that there'll be another crash. Listen for the sound of disintegrating lower division clubs. I don't doubt that TTA are trying to salvage something from the effects of the financial meltdown on their stadium plans, but my biggest fear is that we'll end up with something that's a pale shadow of both what we were led to expect and what other clubs not dissimilar to ours managed to come up with, which means, of course, permanent minnow status for OAFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I actually think you voice some valid concerns, albeit with tedious repetition, but 'present reality in advance'? Get over yourself. Didn't I say months ago that I doubted that the BP redevelopment would go ahead? What's all the confusion this week been about if not the question marks hanging over it? People never value their prophets until it's too late... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 There is no 'getting back to normal' ahead for the economy, even if we get a semblance of 'boom' going. It is going to take decades to recover from what happened to the financial system, and if they try to reinflate the bubbles of the last ten years or so the only guarantee is that there'll be another crash. Listen for the sound of disintegrating lower division clubs. I don't doubt that TTA are trying to salvage something from the effects of the financial meltdown on their stadium plans, but my biggest fear is that we'll end up with something that's a pale shadow of both what we were led to expect and what other clubs not dissimilar to ours managed to come up with, which means, of course, permanent minnow status for OAFC. My reference to 'getting back to normal' was more about Latics really not the economy...... I mean the original plan for the club may have disintergrated but I don't beleive it necessarily means the end. I do admit that it makes the task extremly hard to say the least though. I beleive that many of your points are valid..... I share along with you and many others the immense frustration that we didn't capitalise on the situation in being founder members of the Premier League in the 90's....... we needed to invest then, when Alan Shearer could be bought for £3.5M and get ourselves to be the 'Fulham' of this age. As I say, I share your concerns...... we are totally reliant on TTA to keep us afloat; and without a business plan involving extra renenue streams from a new stadium and that's not good, especially considering they bought us to make a few quid and there's little or no chance of a return for them anytime soon. But I do find your views extreme at times, and maybe a little over the top on the doom and gloom side. But hey, that's what messageboards are all about and we are all entitled to our opinions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 Didn't I say months ago that I doubted that the BP redevelopment would go ahead? What's all the confusion this week been about if not the question marks hanging over it? People never value their prophets until it's too late... My only quibble with you Corp, as you post many good and intersting points, is that you seem to be implying you are the only one that thought doubted it would go ahead. I am pretty confident you can find posts of mine that stated this around the same time too. In fact I distincly remember posting one about it before we erven got approval along the liones of even if we get approval, that is not a gurantee it will get built and £80m is a lot of money and too much debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 My only quibble with you Corp, as you post many good and intersting points, is that you seem to be implying you are the only one that thought doubted it would go ahead. I am pretty confident you can find posts of mine that stated this around the same time too. In fact I distincly remember posting one about it before we erven got approval along the liones of even if we get approval, that is not a gurantee it will get built and £80m is a lot of money and too much debt. The stadium re-development is not £80million. That figure was the value of ALL the work including the value of the completed apartments. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 It is going to take decades to recover from what happened to the financial system. I'm sorry, but that's utter cocksnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Didn't I say months ago that I doubted that the BP redevelopment would go ahead? Reality in advance! What a load of rubbish. Well it either will or it won't, that's for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I'm sorry, but that's utter cocksnot. Tell us why. (The statement doesn't originate with me; there are many, many voices in the media, politics, economics, etc etc, of differing political viewpoints, saying so. Many of them are from the heart of the financial system.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 My only quibble with you Corp, as you post many good and intersting points, is that you seem to be implying you are the only one that thought doubted it would go ahead. I am pretty confident you can find posts of mine that stated this around the same time too. In fact I distincly remember posting one about it before we erven got approval along the liones of even if we get approval, that is not a gurantee it will get built and £80m is a lot of money and too much debt. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 I'm sorry, but that's utter cocksnot. I admire your optimism Kets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 9, 2009 Author Share Posted July 9, 2009 The stadium re-development is not £80million. That figure was the value of ALL the work including the value of the completed apartments. Cheers, Harry Indeed Harry, I was implying that at that sort of level of debt then there were not many property companies going to be able to afford the redevelopment of their bit of whole project. Ie the size of the project made it essential that the funding be in place as soon as approva was given, and as they were not, there were no guarantees. And as they whole development hinged on the apartments and retail parts paying for BP there was a huge risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 There is no 'getting back to normal' ahead for the economy, even if we get a semblance of 'boom' going. It is going to take decades to recover from what happened to the financial system, and if they try to reinflate the bubbles of the last ten years or so the only guarantee is that there'll be another crash. Listen for the sound of disintegrating lower division clubs. If and when this scenario comes around (which it will if things don't change) what would the hundreds of lower divison players earning £1000 per week do? Wouldn't many of them opt to be footballers on £300 per week as opposed to doing a :censored:ty job for the same money? Would this in turn lead to sustainable lower division football of the same standard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Possibly stitch, but I think the process of getting to that state would be very painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Possibly stitch, but I think the process of getting to that state would be very painful. It is possible, but there's no guarantee that it would happen like that. The demise of many smaller clubs is just as likely, as the various interest groups within the game refuse to recognise the reality of the situation. Plus, the big power brokers within the game will inevitably fight to keep the remaining money concentrated at their end of it, thus cutting off the smaller clubs from even a pretence at one day briefly challenging them in the way it's been possible in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Corporal Frazer is the one who says we're all doomed. Corporal Jones says don't panic while panicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Corporal Frazer is the one who says we're all doomed. Corporal Jones says don't panic while panicking. Can I be the first to suggest BB80 as Captain Mainwaring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Tell us why. (The statement doesn't originate with me; there are many, many voices in the media, politics, economics, etc etc, of differing political viewpoints, saying so. Many of them are from the heart of the financial system.) Because 'decades' implies more than one period of 10 years. So in effect, the statement you're repeating purports that it will be at least 20 years before we recover from the financial crisis. My clients at an international investment bank beg to differ. As do the many, many voices in the media/politics/economics etc. Most point to a longer-than-expected recovery period, but nothing quite so dramatic as 20 years. In fact, much if not all of the hullaballoo about how long it'll take to pay off the debt built up by the bail-out of the banks fails to take into account the almost nailed-on likelihood that those banks will pay the money back (as Northern Rock is doing at an encouraging rate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Wasn't it your clients and their colleagues at international investment banks that got us into this f*cking mess in the first place? through their blind greed and disregard for, well, anything but their bonus? It WILL take decades. Not least because 10 years under Gordon Brown's financial 'leadership' has ensured the UK is in the worst possible condition to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 Wasn't it your clients and their colleagues at international investment banks that got us into this f*cking mess in the first place? Not my clients. But I see what you're saying. And don't get me wrong, we're not out of this mess for a few years. But decades is way wide of the mark. Course, it won't stop doom-mongers repeating the hyperbole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 9, 2009 Share Posted July 9, 2009 (edited) Because 'decades' implies more than one period of 10 years. So in effect, the statement you're repeating purports that it will be at least 20 years before we recover from the financial crisis. My clients at an international investment bank beg to differ. As do the many, many voices in the media/politics/economics etc. Most point to a longer-than-expected recovery period, but nothing quite so dramatic as 20 years. In fact, much if not all of the hullaballoo about how long it'll take to pay off the debt built up by the bail-out of the banks fails to take into account the almost nailed-on likelihood that those banks will pay the money back (as Northern Rock is doing at an encouraging rate). None of that means that the yawning hole in the world financial system, amounting to trillions, is being repaired. Or even can be repaired as oppose to loosely plugged for a time. Nobody even seems clear about what kind of horrors remain out in the financial ether nor whether they'll make themselves felt and hence start to unravel everything again in the near or not so near future. The reason why we're not feeling the effects of the crash more is because of the flooding of the economy with money that isn't backed up by anything much ('quantitative easing') and the all-time record lowering of interest rates. Then we have the bolstering of the IMF and other measures taken at the G20 in April, one effect of which has been to head off the collapse of several eastern European economies, sparking further banking collapses in Europe. Many authoratative voices are uneasy about how effective all this is going to be. Unnervingly, they tend to be those that predicted the crisis, some of them five or more years ago. Those crowing about 'recovery', meanwhile, tend to be those who either denied that a crisis was on the horizon or were active in fuelling it with their policies. We shall see who turns out to be correct. Edited July 9, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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