leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I suppose my ambition out strip yours.. And your guessing about when future expansions would or wouldnt take place. Who / how do we pay for this extension ? A key question... Partly answered, and in a different way, by Harry, but my take is that we would do the extension at a time when it would pay for itself (ie via a commercial loan covered by the reasonable belief that it would increase revenue sufficiently). Doing it at any other time necessarily diverts money from the playing budget to the banks. However many millions it would cost to build at higher unused capacity, that would be millions over several years of pointless interest accruing debt. I really don't see the point of doing something very expensive years before it has a point? It's like buying a new house three years before you sell the old one and keeping it empty while you pay two mortgages. It doesn't make you ambitious about living in a nice house in a new neighbourhood, it makes you financially incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Partly answered, and in a different way, by Harry, but my take is that we would do the extension at a time when it would pay for itself (ie via a commercial loan covered by the reasonable belief that it would increase revenue sufficiently). Doing it at any other time necessarily diverts money from the playing budget to the banks. However many millions it would cost to build at higher unused capacity, that would be millions over several years of pointless interest accruing debt. I really don't see the point of doing something very expensive years before it has a point? It's like buying a new house three years before you sell the old one and keeping it empty while you pay two mortgages. It doesn't make you ambitious about living in a nice house in a new neighbourhood, it makes you financially incompetent. I am expecting us to be in the Championship by the time this new staidum takes shape. And I fully expect 12,000 to be less than what is required. As per my post above. I also get the feeling the chance of extending may not be there in future. aka the cold hard cash to do it unless we do it as part of these plans... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I also get the feeling the chance of extending may not be there in future. aka the cold hard cash to do it unless we do it as part of these plans... But as per above, there are loans for things that pay for themselves, and I have a sneaking feeling that Mr Blitz knows a man who knows a man who could sort it out.... if you want to do it when it won't pay for itself, then why do it at all? It just goes back to what some call, "ambition," and what others call, "vanity seats." I cannot for the life of me understand why we are going to score more goals because we have a huge wave of empty seats around us. Can anyone explain this to me? I would rather us scoring lots of goals leading to a bigger ground rather than hoping it will magically happen the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Maybe it's wishful thinking, but if we were in the Championship by the time the new stadium is delivered then that coupled with a new stadium could up our average attendence up near 12,000 almost overnight. The new stadium would be inadequate from day one. Of course this is by no means certain but it also certainly possible. Also, who ever moves to a new smaller ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticNik Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I am expecting us to be in the Championship by the time this new staidum takes shape. And I fully expect 12,000 to be less than what is required. As per my post above. What gates were we getting in the fight for promotion a couple of years back? 6 or 7k? If that. Do you honestly think that would have doubled if we got promoted? High unemployment added to the higher prices for a higher level...I think we may scrape 5k season ticket holders in the Championship. Plus a few floating fans and an average away support of 2,500? 12,000 is more than enough and anyone who says otherwise is living in a bubble. We're a poorly supported club and if we manage to get crowds of 10k week in week out before the next millenium then what an awesome achievement! The only way we'll ever get average crowds of more than 12k is if we ever get back to the Prem. E4e MASIF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 What Dingle Boy said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 What gates were we getting in the fight for promotion a couple of years back? 6 or 7k? If that. Do you honestly think that would have doubled if we got promoted? High unemployment added to the higher prices for a higher level...I think we may scrape 5k season ticket holders in the Championship. Plus a few floating fans and an average away support of 2,500? 12,000 is more than enough and anyone who says otherwise is living in a bubble. We're a poorly supported club and if we manage to get crowds of 10k week in week out before the next millenium then what an awesome achievement! The only way we'll ever get average crowds of more than 12k is if we ever get back to the Prem. E4e MASIF I can paint a different picture... Come 2011/2012 the econmy is recovering and in a much better postion. Oldham have made it to the Championship playing good football in its new brand new stadium pushing for the Championship playoffs. I can see a picture where we are getting 12 to 15k crowds. I truely can.... This "dream" is being lived by other clubs from other towns of a similar size... You never know... Maybe our new postion will actually result in an improvement in attendance as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I can paint a different picture... Come 2011/2012 the econmy is recovering and in a much better postion. Oldham have made it to the Championship playing good football in its new brand new stadium pushing for the Championship playoffs. I can see a picture where we are getting 12 to 15k crowds. I truely can.... This "dream" is being lived by other clubs from other towns of a similar size... You never know... Maybe our new postion will actually result in an improvement in attendance as well. in that case, when we get the money off ticket sales to these extra 7k of fans who turn up week in week out we can then spend that on upgrading the stadium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 in that case, when we get the money off ticket sales to these extra 7k of fans who turn up week in week out we can then spend that on upgrading the stadium I do often feel we have a club to match the ambitions and dreams of some of our supporters.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I do often feel we have a club to match the ambitions and dreams of some of our supporters.... I agree with you totally but we dont have the money to make it a reality...yet.... this new development should act as a stepping stone to higher places Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) I agree with you totally but we dont have the money to make it a reality...yet.... this new development should act as a stepping stone to higher places Beg your pardon ? Do you know that for a fact mate ? Or are you just guessing.... You speak as if you are "in the know". You have spoken about things as being a matter of fact over the last two days based on nothing more than a press release. Its quite annoying to be honest. SO i guess you know how much BP land is worth ? How much revenue will come from our external commerical entities ? What loans are avilable ? What cash flow is like within the club ? Well do you ? If not, you cant really state things about what we have or what we might have... Couple of lessons in life for your mate. Dont trust three men in suits to give you ALL the facts. No matter how much candy they have in there pockets. Certainly dont just take a couple of press releases and idle gossip as a basis of what we can and can not afford. And then try to shoot down other people All we need now if SW and his fag packet maths Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Beg your pardon ? Do you know that for a fact mate ? Or are you just guessing.... You speak as if you are "in the know". You have spoken about things as being a matter of fact over the last two days based on nothing more than a press release. Its quite annoying to be honest. SO i guess you know how much BP land is worth ? How much revenue will come from our external commerical entities ? What loans are avilable ? What cash flow is like within the club ? Well do you ? If not, you cant really state things about what we have or what we might have... Couple of lessons in life for your mate. Dont trust three men in suits to give you ALL the facts. No matter how much candy they have in there pockets. Certainly dont just take a couple of press releases and idle gossip as a basis of what we can and can not afford. And then try to shoot down other people All we need now if SW and his fag packet maths He's talking common sense. It doesn't matter whether the money comes from the sale of BP, or loose change down the back of Mr Blitz' sofa, or from a commercial loan later down the line should we get promoted. Cash flow is NOT going to be improved by spending millions of pounds now, to save us spending the same amount several years later. If we can afford to pay for an extra 4,000 empty seats to keep the other 6,000 empty seats from getting lonely, we could instead afford to spend that money on the team. And if that gets us to a position where the existing seats get lonely, we can get them some new friends. To me my vision is far more ambitious. Isn't it? Build a team and hardly ever lose a seat sale at a saving of at least hundreds of thousands of pounds in interest, or save millions if the hoped for promotion doesn't happen in the foreseeable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) He's talking common sense. It doesn't matter whether the money comes from the sale of BP, or loose change down the back of Mr Blitz' sofa, or from a commercial loan later down the line should we get promoted. Cash flow is NOT going to be improved by spending millions of pounds now, to save us spending the same amount several years later. Massive assumption that the cost of adding the extra seats will be the same. Could easily be more expensive to expand in the future. If we can afford to pay for an extra 4,000 empty seats to keep the other 6,000 empty seats from getting lonely, we could instead afford to spend that money on the team. And if that gets us to a position where the existing seats get lonely, we can get them some new friends. To me my vision is far more ambitious. Isn't it? Build a team and hardly ever lose a seat sale at a saving of at least hundreds of thousands of pounds in interest, or save millions if the hoped for promotion doesn't happen in the foreseeable? Stadium wont be around till at least 2011... I would hope we was in the Championship by then... and probably needing the extension... I do think its about ambition and where you see the club three /four seasons time... You seem to be planning for league one football at that stage / relegation dog fighting in the champ at best... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I do think its about ambition and where you see the club three /four seasons time... You seem to be planning for league one football at that stage / relegation dog fighting in the champ at best... If that's the case, but we had a stable infrestructure and not in the red then I'll take that. We'd be a club primed for moving forward and a lot more attractive to potential investors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) If that's the case, but we had a stable infrestructure and not in the red then I'll take that. We'd be a club primed for moving forward and a lot more attractive to potential investors. While I would take that as a second... That surely can just be the aim ? While the gap between the Prem and the Champ grows... and the gap between the Champ and L1 grows... Seriously dont know why I bother supporting such an unambtious backward organisation like this one... Lets not dare to dream hey folks.... Lets dothings nice and small and steady.... and wake up to find the game up... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Beg your pardon ? Do you know that for a fact mate ? Or are you just guessing.... You speak as if you are "in the know". You have spoken about things as being a matter of fact over the last two days based on nothing more than a press release. Its quite annoying to be honest. SO i guess you know how much BP land is worth ? How much revenue will come from our external commerical entities ? What loans are avilable ? What cash flow is like within the club ? Well do you ? If not, you cant really state things about what we have or what we might have... Couple of lessons in life for your mate. Dont trust three men in suits to give you ALL the facts. No matter how much candy they have in there pockets. Certainly dont just take a couple of press releases and idle gossip as a basis of what we can and can not afford. And then try to shoot down other people All we need now if SW and his fag packet maths ouch lol first of all i said this new developmen SHOULD act as a stepping stone, and in reality i cant see us getting promoted with the money coming in the club now im not in the know as you can see from other posts just giving my opinion and believe we should not be so negative about a positive thing coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well do you ? If not, you cant really state things about what we have or what we might have... 1st of all its my opinion on a "discussion" board, 2nd of all based on that sort of thinking you cant really say that this is a bad thing either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 While I would take that as a second... That surely can just be the aim ? While the gap between the Prem and the Champ grows... and the gap between the Champ and L1 grows... Seriously dont know why I bother supporting such an unambtious backward organisation like this one... Lets not dare to dream hey folks.... Lets dothings nice and small and steady.... and wake up to find the game up... or we can risk millions... worked out for southampton and leeds didnt it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 ouch lol first of all i said this new developmen SHOULD act as a stepping stone, and in reality i cant see us getting promoted with the money coming in the club now im not in the know as you can see from other posts just giving my opinion and believe we should not be so negative about a positive thing coming But thats another problem you have... I say I am concerned there wont be any external commerical facilities at the new staidum like in the original plan... Thats called a constructive question / concern. You take that as completly negative, and as a personal insult to our Führer.... and everyone is moaning... You then reply stating a whole bunch of gueses and opinions as facts and where all stupid for having concerns Crazy I tell ya... Blind faith isnt always the best policy.... That is exactly what lead us down the Chris Moore rollercoaster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 1st of all its my opinion on a "discussion" board, 2nd of all based on that sort of thinking you cant really say that this is a bad thing either But your present your opinions as facts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 or we can risk millions... worked out for southampton and leeds didnt it? and there we go... opinion presented as fact... Who said we would need to risk millions... arent we already "risking" 20 million to a certain extent ? Do you know for a fact we couldnt build a 16k seater stadium using the already stated budget. Are you sure we couldnt get more for the BP land to cover the costs ? I ask a question...you call me negative and present me with opinion based on nothing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 But thats another problem you have... I say I am concerned there wont be any external commerical facilities at the new staidum like in the original plan... Thats called a constructive question / concern. You take that as completly negative, and as a personal insult to our Führer.... and everyone is moaning... You then reply stating a whole bunch of gueses and opinions as facts and where all stupid for having concerns Crazy I tell ya... Blind faith isnt always the best policy.... That is exactly what lead us down the Chris Moore rollercoaster... fair enough, I think im a bit too positive and ur a bit too negative and were getting our wires crossed a bit here to be fair mate i do that a few times, also i have dyspraxia, I find it difficult to relay to people what im actually trying to say and it sometimes comes out wrong, i never meant to present my opinion as fact I apologise if what i say comes out wrong and nevver mean anything on a personal level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 fair enough, I think im a bit too positive and ur a bit too negative and were getting our wires crossed a bit here to be fair mate i do that a few times, also i have dyspraxia, I find it difficult to relay to people what im actually trying to say and it sometimes comes out wrong, i never meant to present my opinion as fact I apologise if what i say comes out wrong and nevver mean anything on a personal level I never said you was getting "personal" dude Just dont read everything as negative and try putting "i think" instead of just saying "we cant afford it"... Your not the only one who has done this over and over again today I am now 90% behind the plans by the way... Wont accept 12k is enough though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelaticsfan Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 I never said you was getting "personal" dude Just dont read everything as negative and try putting "i think" instead of just saying "we cant afford it"... Your not the only one who has done this over and over again today I am now 90% behind the plans by the way... Wont accept 12k is enough though all noted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 He's talking common sense. It doesn't matter whether the money comes from the sale of BP, or loose change down the back of Mr Blitz' sofa, or from a commercial loan later down the line should we get promoted. Cash flow is NOT going to be improved by spending millions of pounds now, to save us spending the same amount several years later. If we can afford to pay for an extra 4,000 empty seats to keep the other 6,000 empty seats from getting lonely, we could instead afford to spend that money on the team. And if that gets us to a position where the existing seats get lonely, we can get them some new friends. To me my vision is far more ambitious. Isn't it? Build a team and hardly ever lose a seat sale at a saving of at least hundreds of thousands of pounds in interest, or save millions if the hoped for promotion doesn't happen in the foreseeable? Obviously this is pretty key......so should the ground be even smaller with £x saved and dedicated to the playing budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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