singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 What-the keeping to the 16000 capacity of the BP redevelopment would send us to the wall? If increasing the cost of inreasing us to 16,000 seems so inconsequential, whay are you making that one of the main thrusts of your argument? Of course it will cost more. There is no need for such a white elephant that will be half empty apart from 4 or 5 days per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 If increasing the cost of inreasing us to 16,000 seems so inconsequential, whay are you making that one of the main thrusts of your argument? Of course it will cost more. There is no need for such a white elephant that will be half empty apart from 4 or 5 days per year. The stadium is only used 20+ times a year anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losesome Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 And I'd still like someone to give me one single example of someone making money out of owning a football club. Martin Edwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) The stadium is only used 20+ times a year anyway... Exactly £20 x 5 x 4,000 people. Extra £400,000 maximum. Of course I don;t knwo the cost, but I am confident it will be millions. And the extra matchday costs of that £400,000 have to be factored in. Edited July 23, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) Exactly So what's your point... Make it smaller ? How about 7k ? 12k is surely a white elephant if we only get 5k crowds... Edited July 23, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 The crucial point is the reduction of capacity, which for the BP redevelopment was 16000, has been reduced down by a full quarter. Why, less than two years ago (or atually up until the Broadway project was announced) was it considered that we require a 16000 capacity stadium and now, all of a sudden, we don't? It can only be due to reduced ambitions. No, not necessarily so. What about the fact that due to land restrictions at BP, once we get the stadium built that would most likely be that, barring major major rebuilding works. Whereas with a new custom built stadium built on larger, cheaper land, there is scope to have features like tier adding or upgrading stands, or filling corners or whetever gizmos the architects can come up with. It has already been cogently argued/explained how it makes financial sense in avoiding paying interest now on massive as yet unnecessary building works in favour of expandability for the future coupled with economic stability. It seems plain to me that it makes more sense to, even if you couldn't build in a close season, lose one season of some profits rather than pay three of four or possibly more seasons of interest on dusty seats. Lets face it, we are not really looking at dreaming for the future, though all of us would like to, but the very survival of the club. Within the constraints that we have this plan aims to secure the club, not bury it in debt as some would seem to want. We all have ambitions to see Latics back in the big time, but letrs be realistic, with Man City now the 'richest club in the world and less than ten miles away, Man U barely further and not looking like dipping any time soon, and Sky providing virtually non stop coverage for the multitude of fans who can't be arsed getting off their sofas to see a game, even a massive upturn in the economic climate is going to struggle to massively boost outr attendances. As many have supposed, one of the few ways of bringing fans back to our games is boosting the product on the pitch, and personally I see more chance of us getting a bigger playing budget by not blowing an extra however many million quid into buying seats that will not get used for at least the near future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Doubtful... 16k would never be big enough for the prem... Even Wigan get more the 16k.... That still doesn't mean there would magically be enough space at BP to accommodate a bigger stadium, which could also be paid for, without dumping the club into financial oblivion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 So what's your point... Make it smaller ? How about 7k ? 12k is surely a white elephant if we only get 5k crowds... If it were my money, I'd be looking at it like that, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 How many times do we have to read this nonsense? "They're here to make money out of us." Name me one example where anyone has actually made money out of owning a football club. Just one. Didn't Shinawatra make a profit? Am sure also that the Edwards clan didn't lose the cothes off their backs from Man U Need I go on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 If it were my money, I'd be looking at it like that, yes. ok fair enough... Well, I dont think there is much more that can be added to this debate so I am going to bow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Didn't Shinawatra make a profit? Am sure also that the Edwards clan didn't lose the cothes off their backs from Man U Need I go on? Yes, please, but put some clubs that are comparable to Latics. Not ones with a global fan base, and/or crowds 5-20x ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 ok fair enough... Well, I dont think there is much more that can be added to this debate so I am going to bow out. I hvae not put a few in my as I am typing it at work, but am enjoying the debate BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Yes, please, but put some clubs that are comparable to Latics. Not ones with a global fan base, and/or crowds 5-20x ours. Unfortunately, at our level that knowledge becomes more obscure and diifficult to obtain, but am sure there is some there to be had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 ok fair enough... Well, I dont think there is much more that can be added to this debate so I am going to bow out. Oh, adn of course sentiment would get int he way eventually! I'd settle for a 13,500 capacity one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Unfortunately, at our level that knowledge becomes more obscure and diifficult to obtain, but am sure there is some there to be had It is true There would be a few, of course. Actually, they are probably in the Prem noways, as that is when the money came in. Most of them seem to be companies rather than individuals anyway. But you ahve to admit they are rare, and by far, more have lost money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpmarko Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 It is true There would be a few, of course. Actually, they are probably in the Prem noways, as that is when the money came in. Most of them seem to be companies rather than individuals anyway. But you ahve to admit they are rare, and by far, more have lost money I certainly would not argue against the point that the norm is to lose shedloads of cash; which is really why we shouldn't be trying to spend the club into ruin. Am unreliably informed that Barry Fry is set to make a mint from his Peterborough revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I don't think you understand my thoughts at all then... Neither do I wish to discuss them further with you to be frank... So we've both misunderstood each other then at some point. Score draw? Seriously, it's all banter and internet b0ll0cks to me, no offence intended nor taken. We could probably discuss this all night in a pub somewhere (and make more sense to each other porbably) and part at the end of the night on great terms ... and pished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 So we've both misunderstood each other then at some point. Score draw? Seriously, it's all banter and internet b0ll0cks to me, no offence intended nor taken. We could probably discuss this all night in a pub somewhere (and make more sense to each other porbably) and part at the end of the night on great terms ... and pished. Fair do's... Just felt it was going to go off topic and us two arguing as usal I would hope the situation you point out would be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Martin Edwards Technically, I guess. I doubt he was ever actually properly in control of United. In fact, having spent his time as chairman being a completely ineffectual loon and doing nothing but inadvertently try to take the club backwards, the amount of money he made out of selling his shares in the club would be quite annoying if it wasn't them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) They came because they wanted to fulfil a dream of running a football club. Naive. It might have been a dream of theirs to run a football club, but without the land attached to the club they wouldn't have purchased it. Haven't they as good as said as much themselves? Edited July 23, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyPimp Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Is it just me, or have Corporal Jones and oafc0000 turned into a Mexican wrestling tag team on this thread? Los Destructores anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 You think its a hobby for them... It was a hobby for Chris Moores... Thats all... Anyway, we aren't going to agree over the size of the stadium and the if the TTA want to make money out of this.. I would settle for 12k with a design that is done with extension in mind.... 'in mind' or not, an extension will not happen, because the aim of getting to where it might be necessary has been quietly dropped. Hence the plan for a little stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Part of the entry requirement of the cup are that your ground will be suitable to host any tie in which you are drawn at home. They changed it after Arsenal drew a non league side away a few seasons back, and it was switched to Highbury. Right. So if we did draw somebody big in the FA Cup we'd be limited to 12000. Imagine limiting United to 1500 tickets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 'in mind' or not, an extension will not happen, because the aim of getting to where it might be necessary has been quietly dropped. Hence the plan for a little stadium. I don't think I am quite ready to believe that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Right. So if we did draw somebody big in the FA Cup we'd be limited to 12000. Imagine limiting United to 1500 tickets. Trouble is we have not often drawn someone big in the FA in cup in the last 30 years. It is about as prudent as Gordon Browns fiscal competence to build a stadium for that once ina blue moon capacity. You cannot be seriosuly arguing we do that. We might as well build a 100,000 seater on the off chance the FA decide to move the national headquarters out of London/Wembley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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