leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 As I already asked, can anybody think of a club that's significantly extended its ground capacity that isn't wildly successful? Darlington haven't quite overtaken us yet have they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Developers and landowners often share income from such a project. My point was that build costs and land value are not the same. Sorry but I'm not buying that Pete. I can't imagine a developer would stump up £xM to build a hotel, and then, somehow, Latics enjoy 24/7 income from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 As I already asked, can anybody think of a club that's significantly extended its ground capacity that isn't wildly successful? Can you name a club who have built a brand new stadium that has been significantly bigger than their needs and been wildly successful except Wigan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Can you name a club who have built a brand new stadium that has been significantly bigger than their needs and been wildly successful except Wigan? Reading? Hull City? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Sorry but I'm not buying that Pete. I can't imagine a developer would stump up £xM to build a hotel, and then, somehow, Latics enjoy 24/7 income from it. IIRC we were going to continue owning some of the assets, ie conferencing, whereas the hotel and housing would be a one off sale, or possibly paying rent. We were never going to actually operate the hotel or build the houses oureslves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You talk a good game, but basically you're creating a position to argue against. A straw man if you will. The proposed capacity was exactly that - it was a suggestion that needed consideration. You seem to think it was a definite. I can't find anywhere a definite plan for the redevelopment. Well, it's been considered and they've changed it. Boo f****n' hoo.... Last one to post is a big girl... *D'oh!* Why do the mods (and certain others who detest debate, despite posing as the voices of privilegedly-informed reason) object to threads going on beyond just a few pages. You'll be shutting the thread down without good reason next! Seems that if you don't like speculation and conjecture you shouldn't set up a messageboard. Nice excuse regarding the ground capacity, by the way. Is the current proposed capacity just a suggestion as well? Why not consider it and then drop it to 7,000. After all, we rarely get above that for a league game anymore (wonder why?). And we're not as big as Bolton or Burnely and too close to COMS and OT. Oh, and Chadderton FC-our natural rivals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Sorry but I'm not buying that Pete. I can't imagine a developer would stump up £xM to build a hotel, and then, somehow, Latics enjoy 24/7 income from it. Don't want to fall out with a fellow Greegs admirer but again that's not what I said. Income can be shared on a sliding scale until costs are recovered etc. What I've been trying to point out is that it's wrong to compare the £80m build cost, and a £20m land value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIKI1234 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I bet you used to laugh at Wigan. So did I, actually. I doubt they're bothered though. Wigan got to the Premiership of the back of Dave W. Nothing to do with the new ground and incomes from this. In fact they were regulary getting 5-6K with the new stadium in league one and then 8K crowds in the championship. Had it not been for away support last season they would not have averaged above 15K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) The simple truth is - If we stay at BP were doomed no brainer really Only one poster has, as far as I'm aware, suggested staying at BP. Funny, though, that only a matter of weeks ago, anybody who suggested trying for a different site elsewhere and forgetting BP, would have been crucified. The people hammering in the nails would have been those who are uncritically defending the new proposal. It's when I look at the average football fan that I begin to understand why we get the governments we do. Such credulous, trusting souls. All together now: "Yes we can! Yes we can!" Edited July 22, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Give me financial security over ambition anyday of the week. Ambition gets you the sum total of sod all. What's the point of football without ambition? Why not take up a non-competitive pastime like origami or knitting? They're relatively stress-free and cost next to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I was looking forward to Palmer's face in the seats.... Isn't it time we forgot the likes of Palmer, Ritchie et al? Do we really want to be reminded of those embarrassing days when we had ideas above our station? Get real: we are not Bolton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Don't forget, Bolton's cock is bigger than our cock too. What gives me the imprssion that if they asked you to suck it you'd fall to your knees without question? After all we're only lickle Oldham, here to be dominated by the bigger boys. Go fetch BT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 A touch of bitterness Jonesy. Bitter? You bet I'm effing bitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Reading? Hull City? Reading have been a fairly constant second and third tier club through-out their history, their best finish of 8th in the PL two seasons ago was good. Their stadium opened as a 24000 seater and plans are in place to expand the capacity. The 24000 seats cost £50m though, bascially costing £2083 per seat. The cost per seat on our new ground would be three-quarters of that cost. Plus we still have the option of expanding. Hull - same story as above, discounting the early 80's. Slightly bigger ground, plans to increase the capacity. Why can we not build a ground and increase the capacity when we need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 You were suggesting that the little ground never works, I was merley pointing out that the big ground doesnt always work either... And I pointed out that it appears to be working for some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Reading have been a fairly constant second and third tier club through-out their history, their best finish of 8th in the PL two seasons ago was good. Their stadium opened as a 24000 seater and plans are in place to expand the capacity. The 24000 seats cost £50m though, bascially costing £2083 per seat. The cost per seat on our new ground would be three-quarters of that cost. Plus we still have the option of expanding. Hull - same story as above, discounting the early 80's. Slightly bigger ground, plans to increase the capacity. Why can we not build a ground and increase the capacity when we need it? Because anybody who honestly believes that the intention is to emulate anything even approaching what Reading or Hull have done needs to see a shrink and quickly. I'm absolutely serious. Wake up and smell the Delrosa, kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Sorry but I'm not buying that Pete. I can't imagine a developer would stump up £xM to build a hotel, and then, somehow, Latics enjoy 24/7 income from it. Wil you let them sing their lullabys in peace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Just been watching Stuart Flinders on the BBC local news. Might have been a slip of his tongue but he definately announced a new 14,000 seater stadium for Oldham Athletic. So let's wait and see................... So does this mean that the BBC is wrong or that the club can't even get its own statements right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Oh, and Chadderton FC-our natural rivals. HAHAHAHA!!!! We are the same size if not bigger than: Huddersfield, Bradford, Rochdale, Macclesfield, Bury, Stockport, Tranmere, Crewe, Doncaster and Port Vale. You could even say Chester and Accrington Stanley now. We are aiming to compete with Stoke, Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Leeds, Preston Sheff Utd and Wednesday. Amazing how you get Chadderton FC out of that... Hell, talking of Doncaster, the keepmoat is only 15000 and their biggest ever crowd was 13000!! Not even filling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 As I already asked, can anybody think of a club that's significantly extended its ground capacity that isn't wildly successful? Charlton at the Valley, Southampton from the Dell to St. Mary's, Derby haven't been wildly successful (1 season in the Premier and straight back down into a financial mess) since going from the Baseball Ground to Pride Park 18,000 to 30,000, Coventry from 18,000 at Highfield Road, to 30,000 at the Ricoh, Leicester City from 18,000 at Filbert Street to 30,000 across the road,. I could also throw in Newcastle, and Middlesbrough because neither have been wildly successful and even Sunderland. How about Ipswich Town and Norwich? They've both "significantly expanded" their ground capacity. Ipswich went into Admin and Norwich have been relegated twice. Then again just 20 miles up the road there's Huddersfield. and another 10 miles, what's the name of that team that expanded it's capacity from 30,000 to 40,000, you know who I mean they were that wildly successful that they went to the Champions League semi final. Which league are they in now and how many Admins have they had? How about that other wildly successful Yorkshire team? Bradford City from 15,000 to 26,000. What are they doing these days? Millwall, from the crapy Old Den to the new Den, can't think that they have been wildly successful. I know who you mean, it's Hibs and Hearts isn't it. Come on Corp your starting to ask easy questions now. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So does this mean that the BBC is wrong or that the club can't even get its own statements right? I think recent form means the Beeb is wrong, CJ. They were reporting this earlier that we were "Closing in on the signing of Parker", 24 hours after we signed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Darlington haven't quite overtaken us yet have they? Perhaps I worded it badly. What I meant was that the only clubs that seem to significantly increase the capacities of their existing grounds are those that enjoy the maximum success. For example, the only club that immediately sprigs to mind for me is United with their recent extensions of the Theatre of Debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Can you name a club who have built a brand new stadium that has been significantly bigger than their needs and been wildly successful except Wigan? It isn't what I meant. See my reply to LL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Wigan got to the Premiership of the back of Dave W. Nothing to do with the new ground and incomes from this. In fact they were regulary getting 5-6K with the new stadium in league one and then 8K crowds in the championship. Had it not been for away support last season they would not have averaged above 15K. True-but it wasn't a point about ground capacity in this instance. It was about what's happening at Notts County. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) IIRC we were going to continue owning some of the assets, ie conferencing, whereas the hotel and housing would be a one off sale, or possibly paying rent. We were never going to actually operate the hotel or build the houses oureslves. I think I need to go away, clear my head, familiarise myself with the shelved proposals, have a re-think and maybe post on the matter tonight. Don't want to fall out with a fellow Greegs admirer but again that's not what I said. Income can be shared on a sliding scale until costs are recovered etc. What I've been trying to point out is that it's wrong to compare the £80m build cost, and a £20m land value. Fair enough Pete - see what I said to Leeslover who is saying much the same as you. However my gut reaction is that either we were going to stump up some serious money for commercial developments...or we we were never going to see anything like worthwhile 'additional revenue'. I wont be falling out with you, and if we did I'm sure Hometownclub would soon be on hand to aid a quick making up. On the other hand I intend to be at Sinclairs on Saturday....simply to meet, greet and wedgie Zorro for the constant abuse thrown our Sean's way. Reading have been a fairly constant second and third tier club through-out their history, their best finish of 8th in the PL two seasons ago was good. Their stadium opened as a 24000 seater and plans are in place to expand the capacity. The 24000 seats cost £50m though, bascially costing £2083 per seat. The cost per seat on our new ground would be three-quarters of that cost. Plus we still have the option of expanding. Hull - same story as above, discounting the early 80's. Slightly bigger ground, plans to increase the capacity. Why can we not build a ground and increase the capacity when we need it? We can - you asked for examples of clubs, apart from Wigan, who had built grounds bigger than they needed and gone onto be successful. I provided some. I'll let the corp take it up from here.... EDIT: He already had done....I'm a bit off the pace here! Edited July 22, 2009 by Stitch_KTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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