oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) I'd be tempted to agree. However, even in the championship we are not likley to hit five figures at home games, except the big local ones. Preston, Barnsley, Sheff Weds, Burnley. Five, maybe six games a season, and they are not likely to max out the capacity. While its nice to think we'll have 16000 seats, is it worth spending £xM more at the stage on the hope of one or two games maxing out in a season? IMO, no. However, if we are constantly getting five figures in the championship, the case for the extra seat could be made... (You never know if we get promoted this season and start filling BP next season, the decision might be made before we move ) I am thinking we will have four or five games a season where we could get well over 12,000, not just one or two... Thats about 20% of our home games... Its well worth the extra investment I think... Also think about this. IF we get to the premership and we decide to increase the ground, whats that going to drop the ground down to while we develope ? 16,000 makes more sense. And I dont not think it will cost all the much extra for what is only an extra 1,000 per stand. I am getting the feeling that there is a 50-50 split on this. Hopefully 3TA are prepared to listen on this one. Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Your clearly arguing for the sake of arguing now Corporal. Whilst you have clearly given examples of teams that have built bigger grounds and succeeded you fail to accept that more teams have failed whilst trying doing it. Also with Reading how many hundred of millions is Madjeski worth? I don't understand why your trying to use the fact that it will be a 12000 seater stadium (which hasn't actually been desiged yet, so could very well change by the time it goes to planning permission) to say we lack ambition? Players dont sign for teams that have bigger stadiums that they can't fill just look at 2 of our recent signings in Furman and Holdsworth who have turned Bradford down for us, and i take it that when you say ambition you mean by playing at a higher level? If your not happy with 12000 then fair enough, I too wish we could get something similar to the KC stadium or the liberty but its not gonna happen at this time it costs to much money and would place the club under a huge debt. (look at Arsenal now they have moved into the Emirates, their transfer funds have dropped dramatically since moving into it despite it earning them 3 times as much on a single matchday than Highbury did, all because of the cost of building it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) I too wish we could get something similar to the KC stadium or the liberty but its not gonna happen at this time it costs to much money and would place the club under a huge debt. Not true... I am sure we can make the stadium up to 16,000 without killing ourselves... I think its worth pushing with 3TA.... Hopefully we will have some consoltation at some stage... I think a 15/16k stadium will please everyone...and is doable.... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I am thinking we will have four or five games a season where we could get well over 12,000, not just one or two... Thats about 20% of our home games... Its well worth the extra investment I think... Also think about this. IF we get to the premership and we decide to increase the ground, whats that going to drop the ground down to while we develope ? 16,000 makes more sense. And I dont not think it will cost all the much extra for what is only an extra 1,000 per stand. I am getting the feeling that there is a 50-50 split on this. Hopefully 3TA are prepared to listen on this one. Well over 12,000? I think we'd be lucky, if we call our home gate as 6000, we are counting on that same again travelling from another club. If we did get 12000, I'd have thought demand would not be much over? Unless in your prior circumstance, vs. Preston. Using Blackpool as an example in the playoff semi, we didnt sell BP out then... Granted Preston have more fans but would we accomdate more away fans than home fans? I wouldnt have thought the capacity would be reduced during improvements (if, say, we were filling the corners in), however, adding a new tier to a stand would probably leave the whole stand out of use for a while. That said, it could take place during close season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Not true... I am sure we can make the stadium up to 16,000 without killing ourselves... I think its worth pushing with 3TA.... Hopefully we will have some consoltation at some stage... I think a 15/16k stadium will please everyone...and is doable.... Fair enough but where is the extra £3 or £4 million going to come from? Are the owners gonna pay for it? the council? or do we put he club under a massive debt for something we won't really need and take out a loan? I know which one of those i definitly dont want to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Well over 12,000? I think we'd be lucky, if we call our home gate as 6000, we are counting on that same again travelling from another club. If we did get 12000, I'd have thought demand would not be much over? Unless in your prior circumstance, vs. Preston. Using Blackpool as an example in the playoff semi, we didnt sell BP out then... Granted Preston have more fans but would we accomdate more away fans than home fans? I wouldnt have thought the capacity would be reduced during improvements (if, say, we were filling the corners in), however, adding a new tier to a stand would probably leave the whole stand out of use for a while. That said, it could take place during close season. In my eyes we need the following capacities for the following leagues L2: 6,000 L1: 10,000 Champ: 16,000 Prem: 25,000 Each league is a bigger deal and more marketable than the rest. The championship is also a better "product" than it was last time we was there. Likewise the prem is. In the prem we used to get average of like 15/16,000 didnt we... I would expect an average of well over 18,000 if we ever got there. The same applies to the Championship as well. I would expect average attendance of 12,000 in the champ with peaks at around 15/16,000 for big important games. Are stadium should be able to take it. Its a big mistake to compare anything against this league. Its so dead in the water. NO ONE gives a dam about it. 12,000 for me is too short sighted and the only thing stopping me really backing these plans. And I am getting thats the same for many other fans as well. The fans should have a voice in all this and should be listend to. I hope someone at the club is listening to these comments. Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Fair enough but where is the extra £3 or £4 million going to come from? Are the owners gonna pay for it? the council? or do we put he club under a massive debt for something we won't really need and take out a loan? I know which one of those i definitly dont want to happen. Well for a start is it actually £3/4 million... Owners may well pay for it... As for as debt goes I would surprise if this whole project didnt land us with some sort of loan... I just want the adult discussion with the numbers. Instead of the, you have to lump it or like thats being pushed about... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nava Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well for a start is it actually £3/4 million... Owners may well pay for it... As for as debt goes I would surprise if this whole project didnt land us with some sort of loan... I'm using the figures based on previous posts in this thread. They probably would have to but may not be willing to do it untill we have proved we need it and i can't fault them for that. And I'm sure we will be lumped with a loan but one that we can afford to repay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Takemeanywhere Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 In my eyes we need the following capacities for the following leagues L2: 6,000 L1: 10,000 Champ: 16,000 Prem: 25,000 So, if we get relegated, should we knock a couple of stands down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So, if we get relegated, should we knock a couple of stands down? If we are going to have a debate can we have an adult one ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BP1960 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So, if we get relegated, should we knock a couple of stands down? Perhaps it will be a portable extension and if promoted put them back up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I disagree, I dont think our attendances will improve enough to justify a larger stadium. The key thing is our attendances. As we said earlier, if we work on 5 games a season that would have had a 14000 attendance, thats 10000 people over the course of a season we have turned down. Or, in money terms £200k. Now I can understand not wanting to turn that revenue down but, with those calculations, it would take ten years or more for the owners to even start to say "if we would have spent X sooner on more seats, we could have earned X much by now". We are not guaranteed championship football. The expansion would have to come if we started finishing in the top 10 of the championship consistantly. Without that consistency in our footballing product on the pitch, we wouldnt get much over 7000 home fans per match. If that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I'm using the figures based on previous posts in this thread. They probably would have to but may not be willing to do it untill we have proved we need it and i can't fault them for that. And I'm sure we will be lumped with a loan but one that we can afford to repay. Well of course... If we can not afford we can not afford it... I work in a world where things can be made to work To be frank, you dont know what we can and can not afford in regards to this new plan. No of us do. I wouldnt of thought 4,000 seats would equal 4 million to be frank. And I would of thought with the will to do it, we could make 16,000 seater stadium work. If only we had a fan on the board we could raise these questions with... Anyone seen the ghost lately ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I disagree, I dont think our attendances will improve enough to justify a larger stadium. The key thing is our attendances. As we said earlier, if we work on 5 games a season that would have had a 14000 attendance, thats 10000 people over the course of a season we have turned down. Or, in money terms £200k. Now I can understand not wanting to turn that revenue down but, with those calculations, it would take ten years or more for the owners to even start to say "if we would have spent X sooner on more seats, we could have earned X much by now". We are not guaranteed championship football. The expansion would have to come if we started finishing in the top 10 of the championship consistantly. Without that consistency in our footballing product on the pitch, we wouldnt get much over 7000 home fans per match. If that. I suppose my ambition out strip yours.. And your guessing about when future expansions would or wouldnt take place. Who / how do we pay for this extension ? A key question... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well of course... If we can not afford we can not afford it... I work in a world where things can be made to work To be frank, you dont know what we can and can not afford in regards to this new plan. No of us do. I wouldnt of thought 4,000 seats would equal 4 million to be frank. And I would of thought with the will to do it, we could make 16,000 seater stadium work. If only we had a fan on the board we could raise these questions with... Anyone seen the ghost lately ? Barry has the PM facility and you can approach a trust director, or turn up at a trust meeting. Lifts have been offered to you before. As for the 4000 = £4mil. Crude I know but: £20mil / 12000 seats = £1666 per seat. £1666 per seat * 4000 seats = £6.6 Million Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Barry has the PM facility and you can approach a trust director, or turn up at a trust meeting. Lifts have been offered to you before. No offence but... Why would I go to a trust meeting when I dislike them so much ? And Barry is about as effective as a wet fart my friend. As for the 4000 = £4mil. Crude I know but: £20mil / 12000 seats = £1666 per seat. £1666 per seat * 4000 seats = £6.6 Million I feel its pointless to play around with fag packet number to be honest. We dont know enough to play with numbers. First of all, the project is costing 20 million...not the stadium... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I suppose my ambition out strip yours.. And your guessing about when future expansions would or wouldnt take place. Who / how do we pay for this extension ? A key question... I dont think its about ambition, I dont doubt that we both want to see a 40k seater stadium that is filled week-in week-out. Whether the Oldham fan base could stretch to that is a totally different think. Sadly, I dont think the Oldham public are up to it.* A good point, but who funds the extensions at other grounds? I have a feeling that TV money would play a big part in it. We know the owners have budgeted to run the playing side at somewhere near to break-even but with a funding gap they cover. Would the additional $$$ we could earn in the championship from sky cover the cost of that? *Interestingly, while the stadium move may lose a few fans, I wonder if more are to be gained from the area we are moving to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 After reading what was in the chron today (hopefully it was factual) my concerns over the new plans have greatly decreased... My biggest concern was where was the external income going to come from and thats been answered. The location of the stadium, while ideally I would of prefered Oldham, its not exactly a million miles away in Failsworth and I dont think its going to have a big impact. My only issue with the project at the moment is the 12,000 capacity. Its been claimed that this is fine for the Championship but I do not agree. Imagine a end of season game between Oldham and Preston for a play off spot or some other important game. I could easily see us attracting 15 / 16,000.... Well over 12,000 anyway... Building a 25,000 seater would be stupid. We could never get that, but we could get 15 / 16,000.... I think the capacity is a big issue for most fans. Seriously how much would it cost to put in an extra 3 / 4,000 seats now?? It will cost alot more to expand in the future... and I can see a championship future with more than 12,000 in attendance... 16,000 and I am fully signed up... 12,000 isnt enough I feel... Glad to see that having had time to digest and reflect, that you are coming round to the idea. Whilst I fully understand supporters having concerns, the people running the club, do fully understand the bigger picture and have to plan accordingly, not just think about what we fans have on a wish list. You ask the question what the cost would be of adding another 3-4,000 seats to the new stadium. That is a fair point to raise. I have posted elsewhere that the cost of providing new stadia is usually based on cost per seat provided depending on facilities included. This currently works out at around £1,000 to £1,500 per seat so the cost of 3,000 extra seats would be around £3 to £4.5 Million and to add 4,000 extra seats around £4 to £6 million. So to borrow the money and pay annual interest only would need around £400,000 to £600,000 based on avearge interest rates that will prevail in the financial markets. In effect it equates to upto what our losses currently are each season and would wipe out any gains in moving to a paid for stadium. You also ask the question what would happen to capacity whilst any expansion was going on. The answer to that is that providing the initial stadium is correctly designed and the expansion is timed correctly, there would be no need to affect the capacity during works. It shouldn't matter then whether you are filling in corners or adding an extra tier. Again and example of that is Wycombe, who added a second tier (well effectively a second tier) to the away end during one close season, doubling the capacity at that end of the stadium. In any event, we need to wait and see what develops over the next few months. Once the plans are drawn up and published, we will have a clearer picture and we may yet just see a slight increase in the proposed capacity if the designers are able to create a cost effective design. However, what is more important to me is that we get a stadium that makes us self sufficient, without having to rely on TTA, but has the ability to be extended if/when we gain some success. That is irrespective of whether the capacity is 12,000, 14,000 or 16,000. A bigger stadium may well yet be possible, but I think TTA are being sensible in giving a figure that they know is achievable and then being in a position to deliver a bigger capacity than the other way round where a number of supporters (you included ) would jump down their throats saying that they hadn't delivered the promise. One thing that did concern me was the thought of vacating BP before the new stadium was complete, because history in this town says that the new gound won't then happen, even with Council backing. Just ask the Rugby fans. I am pleased in that repsect that it looks like we will remain at BP until the new ground is complete. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sheridans_world Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Seems the "back of a fag packet" calculations were not that far off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Glad to see that having had time to digest and reflect, that you are coming round to the idea. Whilst I fully understand supporters having concerns, the people running the club, do fully understand the bigger picture and have to plan accordingly, not just think about what we fans have on a wish list. You ask the question what the cost would be of adding another 3-4,000 seats to the new stadium. That is a fair point to raise. I have posted elsewhere that the cost of providing new stadia is usually based on cost per seat provided depending on facilities included. This currently works out at around £1,000 to £1,500 per seat so the cost of 3,000 extra seats would be around £3 to £4.5 Million and to add 4,000 extra seats around £4 to £6 million. So to borrow the money and pay annual interest only would need around £400,000 to £600,000 based on avearge interest rates that will prevail in the financial markets. In effect it equates to upto what our losses currently are each season and would wipe out any gains in moving to a paid for stadium. You also ask the question what would happen to capacity whilst any expansion was going on. The answer to that is that providing the initial stadium is correctly designed and the expansion is timed correctly, there would be no need to affect the capacity during works. It shouldn't matter then whether you are filling in corners or adding an extra tier. Again and example of that is Wycombe, who added a second tier (well effectively a second tier) to the away end during one close season, doubling the capacity at that end of the stadium. In any event, we need to wait and see what develops over the next few months. Once the plans are drawn up and published, we will have a clearer picture and we may yet just see a slight increase in the proposed capacity if the designers are able to create a cost effective design. However, what is more important to me is that we get a stadium that makes us self sufficient, without having to rely on TTA, but has the ability to be extended if/when we gain some success. That is irrespective of whether the capacity is 12,000, 14,000 or 16,000. A bigger stadium may well yet be possible, but I think TTA are being sensible in giving a figure that they know is achievable and then being in a position to deliver a bigger capacity than the other way round where a number of supporters (you included ) would jump down their throats saying that they hadn't delivered the promise. One thing that did concern me was the thought of vacating BP before the new stadium was complete, because history in this town says that the new gound won't then happen, even with Council backing. Just ask the Rugby fans. I am pleased in that repsect that it looks like we will remain at BP until the new ground is complete. Cheers, Harry Cheers for the reply... I totally agree witht he bolded part and thats why I am "on board" with the main part of the project. All in all, I share your hope that the 3As will consider uping the seating as the plan developes. I will be having a chat with simon next season when I see him. Will convay my thoughts to him then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Seems the "back of a fag packet" calculations were not that far off... pah...dont fool yourself... every number on here is fag packet... I am no saying they are total wrong or WAY out... but fag packet never the less... Edited July 22, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Glad to see that having had time to digest and reflect, that you are coming round to the idea. Whilst I fully understand supporters having concerns, the people running the club, do fully understand the bigger picture and have to plan accordingly, not just think about what we fans have on a wish list. You ask the question what the cost would be of adding another 3-4,000 seats to the new stadium. That is a fair point to raise. I have posted elsewhere that the cost of providing new stadia is usually based on cost per seat provided depending on facilities included. This currently works out at around £1,000 to £1,500 per seat so the cost of 3,000 extra seats would be around £3 to £4.5 Million and to add 4,000 extra seats around £4 to £6 million. So to borrow the money and pay annual interest only would need around £400,000 to £600,000 based on avearge interest rates that will prevail in the financial markets. In effect it equates to upto what our losses currently are each season and would wipe out any gains in moving to a paid for stadium. You also ask the question what would happen to capacity whilst any expansion was going on. The answer to that is that providing the initial stadium is correctly designed and the expansion is timed correctly, there would be no need to affect the capacity during works. It shouldn't matter then whether you are filling in corners or adding an extra tier. Again and example of that is Wycombe, who added a second tier (well effectively a second tier) to the away end during one close season, doubling the capacity at that end of the stadium. In any event, we need to wait and see what develops over the next few months. Once the plans are drawn up and published, we will have a clearer picture and we may yet just see a slight increase in the proposed capacity if the designers are able to create a cost effective design. However, what is more important to me is that we get a stadium that makes us self sufficient, without having to rely on TTA, but has the ability to be extended if/when we gain some success. That is irrespective of whether the capacity is 12,000, 14,000 or 16,000. A bigger stadium may well yet be possible, but I think TTA are being sensible in giving a figure that they know is achievable and then being in a position to deliver a bigger capacity than the other way round where a number of supporters (you included ) would jump down their throats saying that they hadn't delivered the promise. One thing that did concern me was the thought of vacating BP before the new stadium was complete, because history in this town says that the new gound won't then happen, even with Council backing. Just ask the Rugby fans. I am pleased in that repsect that it looks like we will remain at BP until the new ground is complete. Cheers, Harry That's reassuring to hear, I hope tha is indeed what happens. I'm sure a lot of us would sleep far easier knowing that we were not be left high and dry like Oldham RLFC were back in 1996. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 If we are going to have a debate can we have an adult one ? I tried turning it round to blowjobs, handjobs and prostitution earlier but I was doing the work of many on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec1954 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) It is interesting that within the last few weeks we have been sold a vision of merging with Rochdale and now a smaller stadium. If the end result is a stadium within the OMBC boundaries, and a slightly larger than 12k size then the problem of selling the move may well be solved. Edited July 22, 2009 by Alec1954 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 In my eyes we need the following capacities for the following leagues L2: 6,000 L1: 10,000 Champ: 16,000 Prem: 25,000 Each league is a bigger deal and more marketable than the rest. The championship is also a better "product" than it was last time we was there. Likewise the prem is. In the prem we used to get average of like 15/16,000 didnt we... I would expect an average of well over 18,000 if we ever got there. The same applies to the Championship as well. I would expect average attendance of 12,000 in the champ with peaks at around 15/16,000 for big important games. Are stadium should be able to take it. Its a big mistake to compare anything against this league. Its so dead in the water. NO ONE gives a dam about it. 12,000 for me is too short sighted and the only thing stopping me really backing these plans. And I am getting thats the same for many other fans as well. The fans should have a voice in all this and should be listend to. I hope someone at the club is listening to these comments. Excellent post Mr Zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.