boundaryblue80 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 The problem is mate, people wouldn't even stump up a couple of quid for the Player Share scheme a couple of years ago, the attitude within the club is that if an initiative takes time to grow and establish itself it's not worth doing or it is introduced and then when take up is slow given up on almost immediately. To be honest, I think this idea was instantly killed by it's predecessor scheme...best described as "The Scoreboard Fund Scam" which quite frankly bordered on theft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 That we are dying in our current ground. In a new ground we will be okay, like in a 12,000 all-seater. So, which bit of his comments do you follow and not? To be fair I disagree that the club would 'die' at BP, but I would suspect it may suffer to a Rochdale like standard. But, being honest in the long run, I wouldn't care. Because I really don't watch us for results any more (I don't know when it stopped, but it was a long while ago). I watch to be with mates and have a good day out. To have fun. If we win, it's a little bit better, but it really isn't all that important any more. NB. There are certain games I really do want us to win, but they are ones like Hartlepool and Rochdale. And are just for saving face. Sorry-I didn't realise that we were safely ensconced in the new stadium. I must have fallen asleep. Even if we assume that the stadium gets built, there is no guarantee that we will not 'suffer to a Rochdale like standard'-or worse-as the 12000 limit on capacity suggests that the club is looking at lower league survival as the clubs raison d'etre, which will not generate enough interest to prevent the club plunging into the periodic crisis that appears to be the norm now. That you see our 'must-win-to-save-face' games as being with Hartlepool and Rochdale (is that in the once every thirty-odd years fixture?), while the rest don't matter, says everything about what this club is becoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 'The club is dying.' Simon Corney, July 2009. Countered by... "ok, the club is not dying" Simon Corney, Aug 2009 - Fans Forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Countered by... "ok, the club is not dying" Simon Corney, Aug 2009 - Fans Forum So the club is dying on some days but not on others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 So the club is dying on some days but not on others? So you aren't thinking he's just saying stuff to manipulate the right people (e.g. the Council, the fans, etc.)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 So you aren't thinking he's just saying stuff to manipulate the right people (e.g. the Council, the fans, etc.)? I know no more about why he's saying what he's saying than you or anybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 I know no more about why he's saying what he's saying than you or anybody else. But... One week he says the club is dying, the next (alright about six later) it is okay. In that time the club made how much? It implies to me, well being honest, I wouldn't believe much that comes out of his mouth. Again. Being honest, my point is being lost. That is, that chairmen come and go, fans come and go, but the club has lasted over a century. I don't see its end in the next ten minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) So the club is dying on some days but not on others? Appears so...I think we both know it was a fear factor remark used to galvanise/fool the fans into running down to Failsworth. Corney admitted the club could be run at a self sufficent level but that it would be reflected in the playing budget and thus see us spiral further down. So therefore they subsidise us to be competitive at this level. Sadly though, when they've put the cash forward to be more than competitive it's been wholly unsuccesful due to both the fans (the lack of and the must-succeed now attitude), a bad decision to fire a certain manager (Corneys words) and 3yrs with someone who wasn't just incapable but ran a circus with a revolving door to his own squad, replaced by unfit or incapable players from anothers. Now TTA are embarking on their land deal which they hoped to be executing from within the Championship level...and the apathy has stretched to within with the dire marketing and communication going on. We've had interest (John Wardle showed that) and I'm told on good authority there was other interest that backed out (leading to TTA's decision to ditch redeveloping and favour moving.) I would personally like to see the club on the market again...they can sell BP and the club and recoup their losses rather than move us to Failsworth and continue their own commericial apathy displayed at BP (FFS, the lack of will to even get a revenue stream like the scoreboard in place has grated over the 5yrs) before selling up then and leave us battling with competition that we'll struggle to compete with. Once we move...there will be no turning back... Edited August 24, 2009 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 But, being honest in the long run, I wouldn't care. Because I really don't watch us for results any more (I don't know when it stopped, but it was a long while ago). I watch to be with mates and have a good day out. To have fun. If we win, it's a little bit better, but it really isn't all that important any more. NB. There are certain games I really do want us to win, but they are ones like Hartlepool and Rochdale. And are just for saving face. If that's true, I hope I never get to that point. That's quite upsetting, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 You mean like 'Woolworths'!!!! Despite having a cracking selection of pick 'n' mix, I don't think Woolies will ever drum up the passion in people that the 'pinch-me' seasons did, for example.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yes-but what does it amount to if the club's only aim is to tread water or keep from going under, which is what seems to satisfy quite a number of those who post on here? Because, basically, that is what supporting Latics is all about! I don't think fans like me for example, are particularly happy about our current plight, but enjoy it for what it is. We've been treading water for years, but it makes rare successess even more sweet. Fans have been saying "we'll go bust" for years, but we're still fighting on. The chances are, success isn't waiting round the corner, but no one can say that for sure. For Latics to be sustainable, we need to take it one step at a time, I think starting with supporting the current set-up as best we can. Slating the likes of Parker, Brill, etc means we've fallen at the first hurdle. The Manager's brought in players which he thinks can take us in the right direction, so why not get behind them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Because, basically, that is what supporting Latics is all about! I don't think fans like me for example, are particularly happy about our current plight, but enjoy it for what it is. We've been treading water for years, but it makes rare successess even more sweet. Fans have been saying "we'll go bust" for years, but we're still fighting on. The chances are, success isn't waiting round the corner, but no one can say that for sure. For Latics to be sustainable, we need to take it one step at a time, I think starting with supporting the current set-up as best we can. Slating the likes of Parker, Brill, etc means we've fallen at the first hurdle. The Manager's brought in players which he thinks can take us in the right direction, so why not get behind them? And the manager just around this point will be saying I've dropped a clanger with Brill. Or he ought to be! I've seen Brill in pre-season games and all but Millwall and I am firmly of the opinion he is terrible. In fact it can't be the real Dean Brill but an imposter he's that bad. You cannot carry a goalkeeper in football it's a to critical position. When the vast majority of Latics fans will have seen him twice to start ironic cheers when he catches a ball says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 So the club is dying on some days but not on others? That's just middle age. I feel like that all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hometownclub Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The acceptance of so many to run with the Failsworth surrender. Nothing at all suggests moving there will make the difference. Everything suggests we'll be down with the enemy, competing directly for fans and business with them. Just isn't going to happen...we ain't going to compete...we're going to be a Darlington, Northampton or an Oxford...unless serious talk of how the cash turns into on-the-field budgets and serious shots at promotion. TTA won't do this tho...why? Coz they won't be her as far as I'm concerned...this is their land deal (they've earned it...but moving from BP and not founding a way to revelop is somethin I won't thank them for as nothing has proven to me it's the best for us...far from it.) Now we think blindly packing up and walking away from an asset many clubs would revel in is the answer. I fear for our future...I really do! Especially when we move... Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Exactly. Is there any point in the mere survival of a sporting insitution? Is that your personal opinion CJ or more of comment thrown in the wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Because, basically, that is what supporting Latics is all about! I don't think fans like me for example, are particularly happy about our current plight, but enjoy it for what it is. We've been treading water for years, but it makes rare successess even more sweet. Fans have been saying "we'll go bust" for years, but we're still fighting on. The chances are, success isn't waiting round the corner, but no one can say that for sure. For Latics to be sustainable, we need to take it one step at a time, I think starting with supporting the current set-up as best we can. Slating the likes of Parker, Brill, etc means we've fallen at the first hurdle. The Manager's brought in players which he thinks can take us in the right direction, so why not get behind them? Again, the trouble is that, as our attendances are showing, it ceased to be enjoyable for many some time ago. For me when it became clear that the club has stopped seriously challenging to re-establish itself at a higher level. Anybody who actually enjoys seeing the team climb to the top of the league and then abjectly surrender, as in 2006-7 and again last season, has to be a masochist. The one step at a time approach is, as has already been proven, an illusion. We've been spoon fed this approach for years; the result is always the same-and can only ever be the same. Moaning on here doesn't mean that people don't get behind the team on matchdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Is that your personal opinion CJ or more of comment thrown in the wind? It's my opinion. I don't go to Latics for the social life people speak of. All those I used to go with over the years have gradually drifted away. The only reason I haven't joined them is because I still vainly hope that the club I've followed for more than three decades can regain some status and respectability within the game. I'm increasingly thinking, however, that if we ever suffer the supreme indignity of dropping into the basement division I'll finally call it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) It's my opinion. I don't go to Latics for the social life people speak of. All those I used to go with over the years have gradually drifted away. The only reason I haven't joined them is because I still vainly hope that the club I've followed for more than three decades can regain some status and respectability within the game. I'm increasingly thinking, however, that if we ever suffer the supreme indignity of dropping into the basement division I'll finally call it a day. Fair comment, I see your point but it does seem like you have resigned yourself to the fact that 4th division is on the cards, reading between the lines of course. I'm not knocking you for it as it is your money and your heart. Edited August 25, 2009 by tangerinedreams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It's my opinion. I don't go to Latics for the social life people speak of. All those I used to go with over the years have gradually drifted away. The only reason I haven't joined them is because I still vainly hope that the club I've followed for more than three decades can regain some status and respectability within the game. I'm increasingly thinking, however, that if we ever suffer the supreme indignity of dropping into the basement division I'll finally call it a day. Maybe thats why you cant understand how others feel mate. And that is not a dig, but I think many people go not only to see results but to watch a relatively high standard game of football and to socialise with family and friends. Especially with a team like Oldham. I could be wrong, maybe I am unique (I doubt it though) but for me Oldham games allow me to see my dad and brother and other mates who I would not usually see. The reason I am falling out with Latics is not the results, it is the whole negativity which surrounds the place every home match which makes the home games tedious now. Back in the dark days of Ritchie, we knew we were :censored:, but where I sat/stood in the Chaddy, we at least tried to get behind the team, it didnt always work but we tried. Now the whole place is just in silence on the whole until it is time to moan and boo. Maybe too many people go and focus solely on the team delivering results. Maybe if the fans realised they could play a part in this to by getting behind the team, it would spur us on to something better, and more people would come through the turnstiles because BP would be a nicer place to be. I am not from Oldham, but I was taken to BP as a kid and the atmosphere was electric, and that was what made me want to come back not the result. Granted the club was doing better then. If I was a kid today I just dont think the whole experience would grab my attention anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Moaning on here doesn't mean that people don't get behind the team on matchdays. True, and I think it's far too easy to get a somewhat twisted view of reality if one takes too much notice of the opinions voiced here. What I'm struggling with is the reasons for our dwindling support. Is it a feeling of negativity (encouraged or at least reflected on these pages), and if so what's the basis? Surely if, as you suggest, so many of our fans were content with a lower league existence then our stagnation at this level over the past decade wouldn't have seen them drift away? I tend to think it's more of the opposite. Even amongst those fans who are too young to have experienced it for themselves, our most recent glory years (1989 to 1994) are at the forefront of their minds and form part of how they see the club - they see those few years as where we should be and the last ten years as spending too long in a division that's "below" us. That generates the constant pressure of instant expectation - every season is the season where we must at all costs get ourselves promoted to where we "belong" (ok, if I'm honest I think even the craziest die hards will accept that even as founder members we don't really "belong" in the Premiership), and every season that doesn't happen the expectation turns to disappointment, gloom and (for some) abandonment. This is how the "flesh" of our support has gone. The real concern is that we now seem to be chipping away at the bone of our support - the one time 4500 absolute hardcore who would go to every game they could and support the team through thick and thin. The true hardcore who may well complain bitterly on here (with every right) but who would never boo a player or the team and would sing and chant for 90 minutes at every game win, lose or draw. The true hardcore who yearn for better things with all their heart, but who keep coming back to support their team after every season of vanquished dreams. The true hardcore who will rally round and do everything to save their club the next and every time that's needed. When we start to lose them, in the hundreds, we really are :censored:ed. Edited August 25, 2009 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ndl1ne Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The solution if possible would be for the hardcore away fans to all sit/stand together....replicate the noise/atmosphere felt at away games. Unfortunately we all know this isn't possible. I also am of the opinion that even though the chaddy end is badly designed for vocals, the opening of the rochdale road end to Oldham fans has made the atmosphere worse. I grew up supporting United, went to watch oldham for the first time in 2000 as a 15 year old. The expectations were low but I loved the atmosphere. If I was going as a 15 year old now, I wouldn't find BP as enthralling as I did back then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Appears so...I think we both know it was a fear factor remark used to galvanise/fool the fans into running down to Failsworth. Corney admitted the club could be run at a self sufficent level but that it would be reflected in the playing budget and thus see us spiral further down. So therefore they subsidise us to be competitive at this level. Sadly though, when they've put the cash forward to be more than competitive it's been wholly unsuccesful due to both the fans (the lack of and the must-succeed now attitude), a bad decision to fire a certain manager (Corneys words) and 3yrs with someone who wasn't just incapable but ran a circus with a revolving door to his own squad, replaced by unfit or incapable players from anothers. Now TTA are embarking on their land deal which they hoped to be executing from within the Championship level...and the apathy has stretched to within with the dire marketing and communication going on. We've had interest (John Wardle showed that) and I'm told on good authority there was other interest that backed out (leading to TTA's decision to ditch redeveloping and favour moving.) I would personally like to see the club on the market again...they can sell BP and the club and recoup their losses rather than move us to Failsworth and continue their own commericial apathy displayed at BP (FFS, the lack of will to even get a revenue stream like the scoreboard in place has grated over the 5yrs) before selling up then and leave us battling with competition that we'll struggle to compete with. Once we move...there will be no turning back... To be honest the more I think about it the more I am coming round to this way of thinking. I am starting to believe that the move to failsworth is far more beneficial to TTA who will make a killing on the area around Boundary park as by 2011 the property market will have more than likely have picked up by then. They pocket the difference and we are left with just a stadium and no more extra revenue which we were promised with the original development which 2000 of us went on a march in support off. That development would have given Oldham Athletic a long and sustained future and could and probably would of taken the club onto the next level. The reason why anyone would be supportive of the Failsworth move because something has to change at BP for us to move forward and that at the moment this seems the only option going forward I hope there are others though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Maybe thats why you cant understand how others feel mate. And that is not a dig, but I think many people go not only to see results but to watch a relatively high standard game of football and to socialise with family and friends. Especially with a team like Oldham. I could be wrong, maybe I am unique (I doubt it though) but for me Oldham games allow me to see my dad and brother and other mates who I would not usually see. The reason I am falling out with Latics is not the results, it is the whole negativity which surrounds the place every home match which makes the home games tedious now. Back in the dark days of Ritchie, we knew we were :censored:, but where I sat/stood in the Chaddy, we at least tried to get behind the team, it didnt always work but we tried. Now the whole place is just in silence on the whole until it is time to moan and boo. Maybe too many people go and focus solely on the team delivering results. Maybe if the fans realised they could play a part in this to by getting behind the team, it would spur us on to something better, and more people would come through the turnstiles because BP would be a nicer place to be. I am not from Oldham, but I was taken to BP as a kid and the atmosphere was electric, and that was what made me want to come back not the result. Granted the club was doing better then. If I was a kid today I just dont think the whole experience would grab my attention anymore. If I want a social life I don't need to pay £20 a time to a bunch of overpaid mediocrities-I can just phone people up and meet them in the pub or wherever. The atmosphere at BP under Ritchie was exactly the same as it is now. Only the thirty or forty or so kids that sat just to the right behind the goal in the Chaddy-the ones people used to call the Muppet Choir on JKL-usually bothered singing. The rest were silent ninety per cent of the time. Maybe you were seeing it through a youngsters eyes? Edited August 25, 2009 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 True, and I think it's far too easy to get a somewhat twisted view of reality if one takes too much notice of the opinions voiced here. What I'm struggling with is the reasons for our dwindling support. Is it a feeling of negativity (encouraged or at least reflected on these pages), and if so what's the basis? Surely if, as you suggest, so many of our fans were content with a lower league existence then our stagnation at this level over the past decade wouldn't have seen them drift away? I tend to think it's more of the opposite. Even amongst those fans who are too young to have experienced it for themselves, our most recent glory years (1989 to 1994) are at the forefront of their minds and form part of how they see the club - they see those few years as where we should be and the last ten years as spending too long in a division that's "below" us. That generates the constant pressure of instant expectation - every season is the season where we must at all costs get ourselves promoted to where we "belong" (ok, if I'm honest I think even the craziest die hards will accept that even as founder members we don't really "belong" in the Premiership), and every season that doesn't happen the expectation turns to disappointment, gloom and (for some) abandonment. This is how the "flesh" of our support has gone. The real concern is that we now seem to be chipping away at the bone of our support - the one time 4500 absolute hardcore who would go to every game they could and support the team through thick and thin. The true hardcore who may well complain bitterly on here (with every right) but who would never boo a player or the team and would sing and chant for 90 minutes at every game win, lose or draw. The true hardcore who yearn for better things with all their heart, but who keep coming back to support their team after every season of vanquished dreams. The true hardcore who will rally round and do everything to save their club the next and every time that's needed. When we start to lose them, in the hundreds, we really are :censored:ed. There's a lot of truth in what you say about the effect of the glory years-I said pretty much the same yesterday. I suspect that what rankles for most people is that the golden opportunity presented by those years was completely squandered, seeing the club rapidly sinking to the worst position since the sixties turned into the seventies. Add to that all the false dawns and broken promises of both CM and now TTA, and it seems that some people are simply running out of patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 If I want a social life I don't need to pay £20 a time to a bunch of overpaid mediocrities-I can just phone people up and meet them in the pub or wherever. The atmosphere at BP under Ritchie was exactly the same as it is now. Only the thirty or forty or so kids that sat just to the right behind the goal in the Chaddy-the ones people used to call the Muppet Choir on JKL-usually bothered singing. The rest were silent ninety per cent of the time. Maybe you were seeing it through a youngsters eyes? Not seeing it through youngsters eyes, there was a genuine effort to get behind the team. Yes we were the only ones, yes no one could probably hear it, but at least we had that section we could go in and not be miserable. When I first started sitting there, it wasnt just kids actually it was a good mixture. Typical Oldham, that the only section of fans that trys to get behind the team gets labelled the muppet choir. That I think says a lot about the miserable mentality of some. Since I have moved i have seen plenty more muppets sat around in other sections of the ground. As I live no where near the people i go to games with its quite hard to socialise with them elsewhere. At least I pay my £20 to a buch of overpaid mediocrities and attempt to have a good time, why do you pay yours? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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