Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I think its right to push, question and raise your concerns. Now and after the plans are out there. It can do no harm. I completely agree. However, most fans for whatever reason, decided not to attend the 1st meeting held after the stadium development was 1st announced, the meeting being held at North chadderton School a few months ago. Some who decided to attend, and there a number who contribute on here, chose at that time not to raise any questions, yet choose to criticise on here. In any event, you all have a 2nd chance next Wednesday. Speak then or forever hold your thoughts. Oh I forgot there will then be a 3rd opportunity when the club hold a formal presentation and you can also contact the lady they have brought in to deal with the project. Or is it just easier to have a dig from behind a computer screen than attend meetings and raise questions. (not a dig at you zero, more a point to those who only criticise) Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I am one of a few attempting to find out what is going on. Then we have people like you are quite aggressively attacking people for doing that. I think its dangerous just to sit back and hope it all works out. I think its right to push, question and raise your concerns. Now and after the plans are out there. It can do no harm. "quite aggressively attacking people" - that's a cracker! I also think it's right to push, question and raise your concerns, and I've been advising people on here for months to do that by contacting the Club with their queries, as invited at the Forum, which I attended. Glad to see you have done that and brought us good news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) I completely agree. However, most fans for whatever reason, decided not to attend the 1st meeting held after the stadium development was 1st announced, the meeting being held at North chadderton School a few months ago. Some who decided to attend, and there a number who contribute on here, chose at that time not to raise any questions, yet choose to criticise on here. I would love to attend but combination of work and distance makes it very hard. Prozac for example has his daughter nativity to attend, I am sure you see the problem there. It must apply to many fans. Its also been noted elsewhere on the forum that certain people would wish to identify other people for certain nastier purposes. No doubt this makes people think twice about turning up and saying there piece in public. Some will point to some of us not being "man" enough but I am a lover not a fighter In any event, you all have a 2nd chance next Wednesday. Speak then or forever hold your thoughts. Considering what I wrote above. How about another way. I have started a open letter on the forum for people to post there thoughts. It got attacked as some users thought the questions where a little loaded. I think people like the TTA have enough about them to ignore that and come back with constructive answers. How about we give that letter to the board and those points can be addressed. Or should the only way to lodge your feelings be by attending a meeting you can not attend. How about a meeting at a weekend before or after a game? Oh I forgot there will then be a 3rd opportunity when the club hold a formal presentation and you can also contact the lady they have brought in to deal with the project. Soon as her contact details are available I will do just that. Could be a useful tool! Or is it just easier to have a dig from behind a computer screen than attend meetings and raise questions. (not a dig at you zero, more a point to those who only criticise) It is a easy thing to say that Harry but probably not fair. Behind every computer screen is a real fan with real issues. If the computer screen makes it easier for them to comment then I really do not see that has a bad thing. If people want to post lies then I agree that is a problem. Very few people actually doing that though. I honestly think not one single fan on here does not care about this club and its future. Edited December 3, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I completely agree. However, most fans for whatever reason, decided not to attend the 1st meeting held after the stadium development was 1st announced, the meeting being held at North chadderton School a few months ago. Some who decided to attend, and there a number who contribute on here, chose at that time not to raise any questions, yet choose to criticise on here. In any event, you all have a 2nd chance next Wednesday. Speak then or forever hold your thoughts. Oh I forgot there will then be a 3rd opportunity when the club hold a formal presentation and you can also contact the lady they have brought in to deal with the project. Or is it just easier to have a dig from behind a computer screen than attend meetings and raise questions. (not a dig at you zero, more a point to those who only criticise) Cheers, Harry Being a part-timer, I'll be out of the country on the 9th but I'll look forward to the formal presentation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I would love to attend but combination of work and distance makes it very hard. Prozac for example has his daughter nativity to attend, I am sure you see the problem there. It must apply to many fans. Its also been noted elsewhere on the forum that certain people would wish to identify other people for certain nastier purposes. No doubt this makes people think twice about turning up and saying there piece in public. Some will point to some of us not being "man" enough but I am a lover not a fighter Considering what I wrote above. How about another way. I have started a open letter on the forum for people to post there thoughts. It got attacked as some users thought the questions where a little loaded. I think people like the TTA have enough about them to ignore that and come back with constructive answers. How about we give that letter to the board and those points can be addressed. Or should the only way to lodge your feelings be by attending a meeting you can not attend. How about a meeting at a weekend before or after a game? Soon as her contact details are available I will do just that. Could be a useful tool! It is a easy thing to say that Harry but probably not fair. Behind every computer screen is a real fan with real issues. If the computer screen makes it easier for them to comment then I really do not see that has a bad thing. If people want to post lies then I agree that is a problem. Very few people actually doing that though. I honestly think not one single fan on here does not care about this club and its future. As I said in my earlier post, I was not having a dig at you. I fully understand peoples problems in attending such events as we all have other commitments. For example, if the meeting had been tonight, I couldn't have made it. The point isthough, there are a number of ways to deal with questions/worries/concerns that people have. Despite not agreeing with everything you say and do (you wouldn't expect me to would you?) you have at least been procative this week and are using your initiative to get answers to your concerns. I just hope that the likes of Sheridans World are at the forum next week to give an in depth report on the issues raised and the answers given in a post on owtb. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I just hope that the likes of Sheridans World are at the forum next week to give an in depth report on the issues raised and the answers given in a post on owtb. So do I because I may just want to quote from it over the coming months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 As I said in my earlier post, I was not having a dig at you. No problem, I did not think you was... Despite not agreeing with everything you say and do (you wouldn't expect me to would you?) you have at least been procative this week and are using your initiative to get answers to your concerns. Its all about communication and having a focal point of it. If I have a problem with the stadium or a question who do I go to ? Barry: I wont go into it but it dose not work. TTA: I dont even know there contact details and they are too busy. AH: He really is great. But I understand he is busy and I feel like a plank having to bother him. Spokeswomen: Great idea... A webpage dedicated to the project with current information. A email address to post concerns and to get replies. A new stadium blog ? Minutes of the meeting published ? Its all better than what is currently going on and leading speculation. I know the fans can be there own worse enemy but I think its only to be expected we are all worried / excited etc etc... I just hope that the likes of Sheridans World are at the forum next week to give an in depth report on the issues raised and the answers given in a post on owtb. +1 The 10k rumour was the result of no proper minutes of the meeting being available. SW usually fills that void... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 The 10k rumour was the result of no proper minutes of the meeting being available. SW usually fills that void... Monday's meeting was organised by FRAG for Failsworth residents only. Surely it was not the club's responsibility to organise and publish minutes. There again it may have helped in order to correct the rarely wrongs reporting. (after nearly 40 years of reading the Chron's version, I sholuld really know better by now ) Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) Monday's meeting was organised by FRAG for Failsworth residents only. Surely it was not the club's responsibility to organise and publish minutes. There again it may have helped in order to correct the rarely wrongs reporting. (after nearly 40 years of reading the Chron's version, I sholuld really know better by now ) I not looking for assigning responsibility or blame... It make sense to me though that if I was going to go to a meeting like the FRAG one, a minute taker would be appointed so both sides have a record of what is said. I would then share them with the people that mattered to make sure misturth is not mis-reported. You can bet the FRAG are doing that... Edited December 3, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty doesn't know Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 this may be a very optimistic idea but could we as fans raise any money to help fund our desires for the project? Concerning the desires which can't be met by latics right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 this may be a very optimistic idea but could we as fans raise any money to help fund our desires for the project? Concerning the desires which can't be met by latics right now. Can you be more specific with what these desires might be? I think unless we're talking fairly minor things here, we wouldn't be able to raise enough cash to really have any impact considering that we 'only' managed to raise a couple of hundred thousand when the club was on the brink of extinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 this may be a very optimistic idea but could we as fans raise any money to help fund our desires for the project? Concerning the desires which can't be met by latics right now. Let us assume some numbers. 1) TTA are on the verge of making a large sum of money from a property deal. They would probably willingly sell the club for the same sum of money. 2) For argument's sake, let's say that sum is £10m net, after the cost of building new stadium etc. 3) Let's say we can find 5,000 fans who are willing to dig in to their pockets to find this money - that's £2,000 each. 4) We could then appoint a Trust to run the club like Stockport did .... ah, are they still in administration? As only around 500 people were willing to pay £20 to see Latics play the league leaders on Tuesday night I really can't see 5,000 coughing up a half decent sum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty doesn't know Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Let us assume some numbers. 1) TTA are on the verge of making a large sum of money from a property deal. They would probably willingly sell the club for the same sum of money. 2) For argument's sake, let's say that sum is £10m net, after the cost of building new stadium etc. 3) Let's say we can find 5,000 fans who are willing to dig in to their pockets to find this money - that's £2,000 each. 4) We could then appoint a Trust to run the club like Stockport did .... ah, are they still in administration? As only around 500 people were willing to pay £20 to see Latics play the league leaders on Tuesday night I really can't see 5,000 coughing up a half decent sum. I know it's optimistic but there's obviously a good number of us concerned with the prospective aesthetics of the new stadium, this is what my idea is regarding. for example, some have spoken of no corners in the stadium. I was just thinking of what we could do to influence what we want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 this may be a very optimistic idea but could we as fans raise any money to help fund our desires for the project? Concerning the desires which can't be met by latics right now. I think the Trust is the means of doing that, but it has many critics as no doubt you are aware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) I know it's optimistic but there's obviously a good number of us concerned with the prospective aesthetics of the new stadium, this is what my idea is regarding. for example, some have spoken of no corners in the stadium. I was just thinking of what we could do to influence what we want to. I donlt know why people are making guesses then getting upset about it. But I think sometimes it is better to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Not having a direct dig at you, you are looking for answers Does the stadium design really matter? It's a nice to have rather than essential. I think it more important to have a self sustaining business. I am more bothered by the extra business being added. I suspect that some are using the design as a stick to beat the TTA for their own agendas. Can a Supporters trust afford to buy the club and continue to invest. The only one that I know works is Barcelona, and we cannot replicate that, it works on sheer size. It is not jsut £2,000 it's continued investment of several 100k per year. Can a supporters trust afford to subsidise losses. Those self same supporters criticiising the TTA for being money grabbers that are asking for involvment will be the first screaming for their money back and bleatng how it has been wasted if the signings did not work. The Myclub model fell flat on its aris, people just don't agree, and unpredictable things happen. The TTA have said they want out eventually, they hve said why what and how they are doing it, and have earned banked points for being fairly true to their word in the face of extreme pressure from the credit crunch. Basic maths says they will not earn pots of money from their time. They coudl have bailed out a long time ago. THey have said they will wait for the right owner. There has to be an element of trust, and judged by actions not wild guesses. At this current time in economic history, we are lucky to have the TTA. Edited December 3, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 mainly because at the moment its all pie in the sky talk...PR ... until the final plans are layed out,it'll be a better time to praise. until then. Fair enough, but that works both ways for the negative and the good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 I donlt know why people are making guesses then getting upset about it. But I think sometimes it is better to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Not having a direct dig at you, you are looking for answers Does the stadium design really matter? It's a nice to have rather than essential. I think it more important to have a self sustaining business. I am more bothered by the extra business being added. I suspect that some are using the design as a stick to beat the TTA for their own agendas. Can a Supporters trust afford to buy the club and continue to invest. The only one that I know works is Barcelona, and we cannot replicate that, it works on sheer size. It is not jsut £2,000 it's continued investment of several 100k per year. Can a supporters trust afford to subsidise losses. Those self same supporters criticiising the TTA for being money grabbers that are asking for involvment will be the first screaming for their money back and bleatng how it has been wasted if the signings did not work. The Myclub model fell flat on its aris, people just don't agree, and unpredictable things happen. The TTA have said they want out eventually, they hve said why what and how they are doing it, and have earned banked points for being fairly true to their word in the face of extreme pressure from the credit crunch. Basic maths says they will not earn pots of money from their time. They coudl have bailed out a long time ago. THey have said they will wait for the right owner. There has to be an element of trust, and judged by actions not wild guesses. At this current time in economic history, we are lucky to have the TTA. I was starting to wonder where people were getting their crystal balls from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Fair enough, but that works both ways for the negative and the good. care to explain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 care to explain? I'm guessing: mainly because at the moment its all pie in the sky talk...PR ... until the final plans are layed out, it'll be a better time to criticise. until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) I'm guessing: mainly because at the moment its all pie in the sky talk...PR ... until the final plans are layed out, it'll be a better time to criticise. until then. but when some half storys are being given out by the club, people will question them... the fact is we don't know what the whole story is.. so maybe thats why people are being critical..being kept in the dark. this public meeting next week may unfold more ,but certainly not enough. i'd say that most of the criticism most evolves around the plain fact of failworth. Edited December 3, 2009 by johnny punkster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 ...this public meeting next week may unfold more ,but certainly not enough. Surely the time to say that is after the public meeting if questions are still unanswered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Surely the time to say that is after the public meeting if questions are still unanswered. of course.thats why i stated "certainly". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 of course.thats why i stated "certainly". Because you're onfident of repeating it after the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Because you're onfident of repeating it after the meeting. no.i'm now awaiting the Final Proposals . give up eh. im far more interested on the "product" we are supposed to be watching on the pitch at the moment. whatever direction this saga turn, if the product there doesn't improve asap we will be left with an underused white elephant. underused=not (nearly)self sufficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 no.i'm now awaiting the Final Proposals . That's two of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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