wozz_oafc Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Didn't hear anything about that, be a shame if it did. Pissed off with the state of football at present and have been for a good few years now like im sure many others have. Too few have a stranglehold over many, with most of the money coming into the game being pumped into the top there's a never ending cycle. God forbid there be a shake up of the status quo, the attitude is all wrong in this country. The other year for example, the FA cup final between Portsmouth and Cardiff, made a great change to see different teams in the final. I was in my uni house at the time with my prem team (two city, one spurs) supporting mates. They balked at the fact that it wasnt between any of the top 6-8 of the premier league and were worried it was going to be a poor game. Albeit it wasnt the best, but neither was the 'dream' final of a year before between Scum and chelski. For me any game of football in such a big game has the potential to be a 8,9,10 goal thriller or a bore draw, it shouldnt matter whos playing. The point i make here is that i get the feeling there seems a good number of people that would wish football to stay currently as it is and the trophys only divvied out between a select few. I suppose its not so much the ones in the system at fault, its the system itself that is broke and is exploited by those in a strong enough position to do so. Im all for something like a salary cap in our leagues and worldwide, for example: Prem and worldwide top leagues = 25k a week the most Champ and equivalent = 15k a week league 1 " " = 5k a week League 2 " " = 2.5 k a week Wages decrease and increase with relegation/promotion. Its not perfect and the numbers are a bit plucked out the air but the general drift is that something needs to be done before its too late. However i fear, as others do, that it will be too late before anything is! I agree that worldwide salary capping could be the answer. Although I think they would have to cap it high to get any of the big clubs interested, probably higher than the biggest wages now. Am I right in thinking salary capping came into NBA during the last 20 years due to ridiculous wages? I seem to remember seeing something on this when I was younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Sinnott Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 In all seriousness, it's mostly quite easy to work out. In the championship, everyone knows that Palace have a transfer embargo in place, Plymouth have had one placed on them today and Watford's troubles are well documented, whilst Cardiff who although they have a new stadium have inherent large debts of around £30million, which won't go away. The Cardiff players had to pay their own air fares and hotel bills for Sundays trip to Middlesbrough as Risdale claimed they were too skint to pay for an overnight trip and plane fares. In our own league, besides Stockport, Southend were on the verge not many weeks ago, Charlton have had a further £5million directors loan injected to keep them going and have had ex Birmingham duo Gold & Sullivan sniffing around, who have no ambition to buy the club, but are using their interest in Charlton as a stick to beat the owners of West Ham over their heads. No matter how many times they get rescued, Swindon's problems just don't seem to go away (probably because they keep overspending) and it's no co-incidence that the bindippers are where they are. There are also a couple of other teams who are "struggling" but they are not yet in the public domain but people would probably not be surprised if/when the news hits the headlines. I'll finish it off for you. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penrhyn Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes the Stockport situation is real sad, the majority of their real fans have a lot of time for Latics its very sad the fans deserve better. The club never saw a penny of the play off money and Jim Gannon left without being paid his bonus for winning the play offs. Part of the reason Gannon left county was he was a trained accountant and the people running the club couldnt pull the wool over his eyes, I think the final straw was when they banned him from the board meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue_Pizza Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'll finish it off for you. Cheers, Harry :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Yes the Stockport situation is real sad, the majority of their real fans have a lot of time for Latics its very sad the fans deserve better. The club never saw a penny of the play off money and Jim Gannon left without being paid his bonus for winning the play offs. Part of the reason Gannon left county was he was a trained accountant and the people running the club couldnt pull the wool over his eyes, I think the final straw was when they banned him from the board meetings. Assuming Stockport survive, Gannon will receive all money owed to him, as they are football debts that have to be settled in full under Football League rules. I've also read (so heresay, not fact) that he also received a cut of transfer fees when County sold at a profit. This was a key reason why he was made "redundant" in the summer prior to the £250k sale of Tommy Rowe to Peterborough and the "up to" £500k sale of a couple of 17 year olds to Celtic. If true, he's owed a substantial sum based on Dickinson (bought for £2k sold for £750k) and Pilkington (youth product sold for £575k). Fairly sure they got fees for Jim McNulty, Gary Dicker and someone else who ended up at Brighton prior to Gannon's departure! Its a lot worse at county than you think, the aptly named Sale Sharks also take a huge cut of any Transfer Fees at present. 30% rings a bell, although this was apparently part of an arrangment to play rent free at Edgeley Park and repurchase the stadium within 10 years of Kennedy's takeover. There is a theory that Kennedy is linked to the firm David Farms that put County in to administration in order to ensure that they didn't get to the £4m needed to buy the ground back. As for the £60k raised by www.groundforapound.com ... who knows where the hell that ended up? Edited December 16, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futchers briefs Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 perspective time.....We owe nowt to nobody and are hopeful of moving into our own new ground in the near future which will belong to us, still owing nowt to nobody, = not a bad position to be in, all things considered!! (though please don't change this thread into a 'new ground is......') Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losesome Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The FA.League have told Stockport if they are not out of Admin by the start of next season then they will be expelled ? If this Melrose consortium don't come up with the goods then they will have to sell big style just to survive the rest of this season. Lets hope they get it sorted and stay up because if they go they will no doubt be replaced by a team a few miles from France !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On another note of down fallen clubs - i passed Wrexham's ground yesterday and was impressed with their ground. Except for the standing covered end behind the goal they look as though they have developed 3 new stands - Where have they got the funds to do that becuase not long ago they were in a bigger mess than Stockport !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 On another note of down fallen clubs - i passed Wrexham's ground yesterday and was impressed with their ground. Except for the standing covered end behind the goal they look as though they have developed 3 new stands - Where have they got the funds to do that becuase not long ago they were in a bigger mess than Stockport !!! The stadium was redeveloped before the club's financial troubles began. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The stadium was redeveloped before the club's financial troubles began. Did redevelopment at all contribute to their troubles our of interest ? We need to learn the lessons from others that have messed up. If anything positive comes out of all the false dawns it should be this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Did redevelopment at all contribute to their troubles our of interest ? We need to learn the lessons from others that have messed up. If anything positive comes out of all the false dawns it should be this. The problems started after the stadium redevelopment when the chairman attempting to get the club evicted from the stadium so that he could use and sell it for his own development purposes. In 2004 he gave the club a year's notice to quit the ground. With the help of the fans of Brighton & Hove Albion, who themselves had managed to successfully depose their chairman and keep control of their stadium after he had sold the ground for development purposes in almost the same circumstances, Wrexham's fans fought the Chairman. In 2005, the High Court decided that the Chairman's company had improperly acquired the freehold of the ground and the decision went against him. He went to the Appeal Court in London and it ruled in 2006 that the stadium must remain in the hands of the club's administrators. The Administrators then reached an agreement with a local car dealer, subject to agreement by the shareholders and creditors (which was achieved), for Mr Dickens to take over control of the club and all its assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 The problems started after the stadium redevelopment when the chairman attempting to get the club evicted from the stadium so that he could use and sell it for his own development purposes. In 2004 he gave the club a year's notice to quit the ground. With the help of the fans of Brighton & Hove Albion, who themselves had managed to successfully depose their chairman and keep control of their stadium after he had sold the ground for development purposes in almost the same circumstances, Wrexham's fans fought the Chairman. In 2005, the High Court decided that the Chairman's company had improperly acquired the freehold of the ground and the decision went against him. He went to the Appeal Court in London and it ruled in 2006 that the stadium must remain in the hands of the club's administrators. The Administrators then reached an agreement with a local car dealer, subject to agreement by the shareholders and creditors (which was achieved), for Mr Dickens to take over control of the club and all its assets. Lesson I take from that is the fans can fight back when required... Message to some on here who feel or promote the idea we are powerless... I seriously hope TTA would never do such a thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Assuming Stockport survive, Gannon will receive all money owed to him, as they are football debts that have to be settled in full under Football League rules. I've also read (so heresay, not fact) that he also received a cut of transfer fees when County sold at a profit. This was a key reason why he was made "redundant" in the summer prior to the £250k sale of Tommy Rowe to Peterborough and the "up to" £500k sale of a couple of 17 year olds to Celtic. If true, he's owed a substantial sum based on Dickinson (bought for £2k sold for £750k) and Pilkington (youth product sold for £575k). Fairly sure they got fees for Jim McNulty, Gary Dicker and someone else who ended up at Brighton prior to Gannon's departure! 30% rings a bell, although this was apparently part of an arrangment to play rent free at Edgeley Park and repurchase the stadium within 10 years of Kennedy's takeover. There is a theory that Kennedy is linked to the firm David Farms that put County in to administration in order to ensure that they didn't get to the £4m needed to buy the ground back. As for the £60k raised by www.groundforapound.com ... who knows where the hell that ended up? All millstones round the neck of anyone coming in to save them unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 We owe nowt to nobody Except £2.7m showing in the club acocunts as owing to TTA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Except £2.7m showing in the club acocunts as owing to TTA? We're in just as much trouble as other clubs should TTA withdraw their funding. I don't think this would happen but it is possible. We owed Chris Moore £4m when he decided to go but he couldn't get much of this back as there wasn't any real saleable assets that he owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoytonLatics Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just herd last night that Rugby league is moving to Wrexham next season so that might bring a little more revenue towards the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just herd last night that Rugby league is moving to Wrexham next season so that might bring a little more revenue towards the club. I don't understand? Why would that bring more revenue? The whole of rugby league going to Wrexham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 It's a bit of a red herring the debt TTA have in the club. If at some point they decide to offload the club they can take what they take and leave what they leave, assets and liabilities. Who would you rather the club had borrowed off to buy the land, TTA or a bank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 It's a bit of a red herring the debt TTA have in the club. If at some point they decide to offload the club they can take what they take and leave what they leave, assets and liabilities. Who would you rather the club had borrowed off to buy the land, TTA or a bank? Obviously TTA but it's not exactly a red herring, should they want that money paying back they have BP to sell. Chris Moore was powerless as he had nothing to sell to get that £4m back, he was going to lose it no matter what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Obviously TTA but it's not exactly a red herring, should they want that money paying back they have BP to sell. Chris Moore was powerless as he had nothing to sell to get that £4m back, he was going to lose it no matter what happened. Yes, but it for example they had put the money into the club by sponsoring us from another company company they own (reducing their profits by the same amount) they might still decide they wanted that money back, it's really just the same situation. Either way they have spent the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Except £2.7m showing in the club acocunts as owing to TTA? People seem to think that is free money. People also think its better to owe TTA than a bank. I would not be so quick to think that. TTA can reign that debt in any time they choose. A loan with a bank has a deal, contract and the FSA regulations. If you trust TTA then its better to owe them... If you don't then well...we are probably stuffed either way... I would rather owe TTA.... But owe them we do... That 2.7 million debt is very real (if reports are true)... Edited December 16, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 watford "close to admin".. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8415622.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 TTA have said they will not call in that debt. I firmly believe they were being honest when they said that. However things can change, and it only really becomes relevant when they leave, having sold to a new owner or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macca Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 TTA have said they will not call in that debt. I firmly believe they were being honest when they said that. However things can change, and it only really becomes relevant when they leave, having sold to a new owner or not. I believe they are beng honest as well, they have done a lot for the club in the years they have been here and largely got us on a stable footing. Things can change, things beyond TTA's control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 People seem to think that is free money. People also think its better to owe TTA than a bank. I would not be so quick to think that. TTA can reign that debt in any time they choose. A loan with a bank has a deal, contract and the FSA regulations. If you trust TTA then its better to owe them... If you don't then well...we are probably stuffed either way... I would rather owe TTA.... But owe them we do... That 2.7 million debt is very real (if reports are true)... If we were to pay that debt off where would the money come from surely it would come from the business which they own and therefore they it would land Oldham Athletic their business with a £3 million debt and who would buy a football club like ours with that kind of debt. Any potential buyer would want that £3million written of surely particularly when you bear inn mind that we are making a loss of £500k a year. I doubt vey much they will see that money again. Unless they sell the ground to pay for it ofcourse but that leaves then a debt free company making less revenue and a loss with no assets so equally unsellable. Unless Micah Richards goes for about £85 million in january they ain't seeing that £3million again and I don't think they did it with that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 If we were to pay that debt off where would the money come from surely it would come from the business which they own and therefore they it would land Oldham Athletic their business with a £3 million debt and who would buy a football club like ours with that kind of debt. Any potential buyer would want that £3million written of surely particularly when you bear inn mind that we are making a loss of £500k a year. I doubt vey much they will see that money again. Unless they sell the ground to pay for it ofcourse but that leaves then a debt free company making less revenue and a loss with no assets so equally unsellable. Unless Micah Richards goes for about £85 million in january they ain't seeing that £3million again and I don't think they did it with that in mind. You might be right... You could be wrong... I cant read peoples minds... I can only hear their slip service... I want to trust people, suppose after Chris Moores trust will probably never come again unless it is earned... TTA can earn by delivering on one of their dreams.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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