stadium design

[real]

No-one would EVER say Middleton is in Rochdale. So, why do people find it easy to say Failsworth is in Oldham ? It isn't. It's served by Oldham MBC, for logistical and political reasons, that's all. Same as Middleton's served by Rochdale MBC.

 

But actually for me it's not really the postcode or district name of the place we're moving to that is so worrying, it's the fact we're going right out of our heartland and into hostile territory. It might be the only site presently suitable, but it doesn't mean it's not a crazy decision.

 

 

Blimey, when did TTA decide to move to Helmand province?

 

It's 3 miles down the road, there's a good few latics fans, the people are very very like oldham people - far more than yorkies and scousers are, but funnily enough I think we even get a few of them at BP.

 

If you're defining failsworth as "Hostile Territory" then I think your definition of a "Crazy decision" is perhaps equally as unstable.

[garcon]

Blimey, when did TTA decide to move to Helmand province?

You ever been out round Newton Heath? Think I'd rather be in Helmand!

[leeslover]

You ever been out round Newton Heath? Think I'd rather be in Helmand!

I'm reminded of the early days of the Iraq war when Geoff Buffhoon said that Um-Qasr was a medium sized town port like Southampton. A soldier was interviewed and said, "Either Geoff Hoon hasn't been to Um-Qasr or he hasn't been to Southampton. There's no beer, no prostitutes and people are shooting at us. It's more like Portsmouth."

[garcon]

That soldier obviously hasn't been to Plymouth...

[Corporal_Jones]

Perhaps the bit you see as irrelevant is the most relevant factor.

 

Whatever part of the fanbase we "might" lose, we would lose a part of that wherever we move/if we stay and build something they don't like/if the wind changes.

 

 

Erm, well, I should perhaps clarify that it's maybe the bit that you in fact see as the most relevant factor may be the most relevant reason to move. It's just that you can't grasp the logic behind it.

 

Oh, and perhaps your "small ground, we'll never fill it, down, down, down into the pools of blackness, black, black, the dark and black, down, down" line has now reached saturation point? Which is a nice co-incidence.

 

 

 

Have you been on the mushrooms?

[garcon]

Black! Black!

Edited December 20, 2009 by garcon

[Corporal_Jones]

can you prove any of this.....have you gone out to failsworth and asked people who they think they are etc etc..or is it just another crock o :censored: from you all over again......read the title of the thread,stadium design,feck all to do with your perpetual slagging of the club and its continuous downsizing..

 

have you rung mr corney yet to set up this meeting he said people could have????

 

 

 

Of course I haven't rung him. Do you always need everything explaining to you ten or twelve times before it sinks in?

 

I know Failsworth well enough, and explained it as I see it. Feel free to differ if it pleases you. The result will be the same in the end.

[Corporal_Jones]

I've said Middleton is in Rochdale (then again I've said its in Manchester too- it has a Manchester postcode too). But then again considering I don't necessarily think Lancashire ends at the River Mersey names of locations don't mean much (or sorry old names). Failsworth may be hostile territory but I'd wager there are more Oldham fans in Failsworth than many other mooted locations- heck I reckon half of Oldham's fans don't live in Oldham MBC but some people have this big hang up about keeping Oldham in Oldham.

 

Whereabouts is Stamford Bridge, Craven cottage, the old Wimbledon ground, Arsenal's new base, Old Trafford etc. locations boundaries are arbitory and have drawn up by some busy body from hundreds of years ago to last christmas it doesn't matter. I will watch Oldham (when I can) if we were playing in Stockport, Yorkshire, Failsworth or BP and I will travel a darn site further than most of the people moaning about it moving a few miles down the road, you cannot be a hardcore supporter and say otherwise.

 

Having said that it doesn't mean I'm pro-Failsworth I just don't see much of the fuss made by some- maybe if some people realise that the world doesn't end when you reach a sign that says welcome to Manchester Oldham Athletic would be in a better position.

 

 

 

Maybe it would simply be etter if those who take what is essentially a tourist's view of the world could grasp that not everybody thinks like they do.

 

I bet that, of all those who are interested in football in Failsworth, no more than about 5% are Latics fans. (Note to Edhunter-that's an estimation based on experience, not an indisputable fact.) Of course, there's a bigger proportion who, if pressed, would say that Latics are their second team, but few of them will regularly pay today's prices to watch the club.

Edited December 20, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

P.S. Actually I do think of Middleton as being kind of part of Rochdale.

 

 

This whole argument is pointless anyway. The simple fact is that as far as the club is concerned the proposed Failsworth site is the only one available in the Oldham borough. And given that Latics is, for now, the only professional football club in the borough I tend to think it's perfectly ok to presume that it represents Oldham the borough rather than Oldham the town. If you think the latter, then surely you'd be just as upset at the location of Boundary Park, being practically in Royton...

 

'Culturally', Royton has far more in common with Oldham than Failsworth does, however.

 

[garcon]

'Culturally', at least until 1974, I'd say Royton was pretty fiercely independent of both Oldham and Rochdale. As was Shaw. I couldn't really comment on Failsworth - we left when I was three. Er, a few years (ahem) before 1974. And moved to Royton.

 

I'd say it took a fair few years from 1974 for the new borough of Oldham to develop its own identity - and for those in the areas included in the borough to begin to identify with Oldham. There are probably still people in Thornham and High Crompton who pay their council tax in Oldham but in most other ways are more attached to Rochdale.

[Corporal_Jones]

'Culturally', at least until 1974, I'd say Royton was pretty fiercely independent of both Oldham and Rochdale. As was Shaw. I couldn't really comment on Failsworth - we left when I was three. Er, a few years (ahem) before 1974. And moved to Royton.

 

I'd say it took a fair few years from 1974 for the new borough of Oldham to develop its own identity - and for those in the areas included in the borough to begin to identify with Oldham. There are probably still people in Thornham and High Crompton who pay their council tax in Oldham but in most other ways are more attached to Rochdale.

 

 

 

 

Yes, but even Rochdale and Oldham traditionally have more in common than Oldham has with 'Mancunian' Failsworth: Lancashire accents, mill town heritage, fewer pretensions as to their own importance than big city people, a certain parochialism (although people within big cities can also be parochial), etc etc.

[paulgard]

I only think it matters because we seem set to lose a portion of our fanbase who will not be replaced to any significant extent by the residents of Failsworth and the parts of Manchester and Tameside that surround it.

you dont know that for certain though do you corporal? unless you've been to failsworth and done a survey with the residents.people say one thing and do the opposite.

[BP1960]

It doesn't matter where Latics play within the Borough, a successful team vying for promotion and having long cup runs will see attendances vastly increase from what they are now, it's happended before so can happen again.

No one can say for certain what will happen in the next 2 or 3 years, they can only make an educated guess.

Edited December 21, 2009 by BP1960

[longtimeblue]

For me its not too much the cappacity that worries me , i just want to be proud of it .

 

It needs to look origanal and not another shrews or colchester .

 

I know this links been on here before but some of the stadiums on it are impressive and all under 20k ,

 

Theres is a lack of pride around BP at the mo , give us somthing to be proud of .

 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.p...4888&page=6

[/quot

 

Not seen this link before, Some good ones on there - I'd be ecsatic if we did something like the Molde Ground.. Same size aswell. After reading through the topic someone else picked up on the fact that the small grounds being built in England are very poor in comparison

[wozz_oafc]

For me its not too much the cappacity that worries me , i just want to be proud of it .

 

It needs to look origanal and not another shrews or colchester .

 

I know this links been on here before but some of the stadiums on it are impressive and all under 20k ,

 

Theres is a lack of pride around BP at the mo , give us somthing to be proud of .

 

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.p...4888&page=6

[/quot

 

Not seen this link before, Some good ones on there - I'd be ecsatic if we did something like the Molde Ground.. Same size aswell. After reading through the topic someone else picked up on the fact that the small grounds being built in England are very poor in comparison

 

Some great looking small stadiums there, it would be nice to follow suit. I wonder why the English ones are so basic? High cost of land so less to spend on the stadium?

[wozz_oafc]

Heres another nice one with a small capacity I have heard good things about before

 

HJK Helsinki.

 

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/woco/venu...6106/index.html

 

Edit to say I think even if the capacity is 12k and people wanted it to be more at 16k, the design could play a big part in warming to the smaller ground. I think a nice 12k stadium would be much better than a Shrewsbury/Colchester style one with 16k, however I am expecting a 12k Shrewsbury/Colchester style one:(

Edited December 21, 2009 by wozz_oafc

[thelaticsfan]

these days most people in oldham will count themselves as mancunian or from yorkshire (saddleworth) so it doesnt matter where we build it to be honest they will still think the same, I just want somewhere we can call our own that will make us a bit of a profit, (or a bit of a prophet) then we can look at improvements elsewhere, IE players, staff, pitch improvements etc. (although we will have to build a good base pitch from the start)

 

we need to move somewhere and eventually someone somewhere will disapprove, so just go for the most financially appealling I say, regardless of if the neighbours think we are troublecausers/litterers/the devil we will get that everywhere

[creepy]

these days most people in oldham will count themselves as mancunian or from yorkshire (saddleworth)

 

 

not having that, i aint no Manc or yorkshireman never have been, never will be.

 

im Lancastrian thanks duck

Edited December 21, 2009 by creepy

[futchers briefs]

 

not having that, i aint no Manc or yorkshireman never have been, never will be.

 

im Lancastrian thanks duck

'Ere Ere'

[Corporal_Jones]

you dont know that for certain though do you corporal? unless you've been to failsworth and done a survey with the residents.people say one thing and do the opposite.

 

 

 

As I keep having to say, I don't present any of this as indisputable fact. I do know plenty of Failsworth residents though, and have merely described the impression I get.

 

And everybody knows that during the sixties and seventies there was an enormous influx of people into Failsworth from places like Collyhurst, Miles Platting, Moston (the proper bit), Harpurhey, Ancoats etc etc. Wages had been rising for some time, people wanted out of the inner-city, and for people in those areas Failsworth was almost in the countryside yet conveniently close to family left behind etc.

 

This is what gives Failsworth its Mancunian flavour. It isn't a mystery.

[Corporal_Jones]

I know the topic is drifting again but dont agree with a lot of the posts on this. My Grandad is 85 a Hathershaw born Oldie, My Dad 51 a High Crompton Oldie, I was brought up in Shaw off Bucky Road and then Grotton and now in Sheffield at Uni. The three of us chatting last night about latics and Oldham in general.

 

My grandad obviously had the war to contend with and a relative who was a director at Latics in 50s and 60s, paid the wages for months on end and found players jobs, houses (Jimmy Naylor) on Chamber Road in Shaw, this continued up to the 1970s with Alan Groves and his boutique. Nothing clever just a way of helping out. Despite being slagged off my relative regularly stopping creditors by paying electric bills and the like. BUT we are talking gestures in an old World. My relative building Boundary Park Road, Coalville Road etc... There is some guff spouted about Clayton playing fields the cash paid on gate to tip ash from the power stations worth a lot to someone in old money.

 

The social scene was walking Union Street the pictures, dancing at Hill Stores and Town Hall, Bath Hotel and town centre pubs, but last TRAM home. Grandad worked for Platts on Featherstall Road with 30,000 others he was one of last 20 to finish...Badly managed business asset stripped in 1970s selling technology to Korea...stupid boogers.

So a culture of working Saturday mornings and then Latics after a pint, stood in the Broadway Stand Shed drinking OB bottles akin to a funfair site.

 

The same fans also supporting the Rugby often on a Sunday. A bus from hathershaw "9" to top of Sheepfoot Lane and walk if skint.

 

My dad in 70s Radclyffe Arms, Away day trips good banter on Yorkshire Street. Walk to Latics from High Crompton with a lot more. The culture being it was Latics, City or United even Dale...non of this distance crap. (no offence intended) Yes Shaw was a borough but a Latics borough so was Royton. Failsworth however was somewhere in Manchester a seperate borough that always appeared to allign itself with its biggest neighbour. Its not Hollinwood, Its not just on Broadway its always been on the fringe of the route to Manchester for anyone over 50ish a distant place. OF course stuff moves on BUT this site IS in all but Title Deed a Moston /Failsworth MANCHESTER location.

 

It simply feels wrong even for me at 19. The culture of pubs etc dying on its feet, easy travelling working both ways, employment changing completely...Large employer in Oldham???? The ethnic mix changing completely and local identity changing with it.

 

Then costs.... a society that demands instant success and no failure. Latics have failed for 90% of its history if not more. So back on topic.

 

A new ground IF it HAS to be Failsworth needs more identity than a screwfix solution that is same as. What I wouldnt give for a Gayfarm ground now. Messrs Stott and Co have a lot to answer for when the opportunity was there. My memories of Latics are all downhill sadly I wouldnt dream of not supporting them but its getting easier to make excuses and I am a diehard. WE are battling an I support "via Sky" generation including my mates. winning team the only real way to drag the fans back in a DECENT ground we can call HOME.

 

 

 

Great post.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

It doesn't matter where Latics play within the Borough, a successful team vying for promotion and having long cup runs will see attendances vastly increase from what they are now, it's happended before so can happen again.

No one can say for certain what will happen in the next 2 or 3 years, they can only make an educated guess.

 

 

 

The sub-12000 limit on capacity adds some confidence to the educated guess as to where we're meant to be in two or three years time, though.

 

Here's a clue: it isn't the Championship.

[Corporal_Jones]

these days most people in oldham will count themselves as mancunian or from yorkshire (saddleworth) so it doesnt matter where we build it to be honest they will still think the same, I just want somewhere we can call our own that will make us a bit of a profit, (or a bit of a prophet) then we can look at improvements elsewhere, IE players, staff, pitch improvements etc. (although we will have to build a good base pitch from the start)

 

we need to move somewhere and eventually someone somewhere will disapprove, so just go for the most financially appealling I say, regardless of if the neighbours think we are troublecausers/litterers/the devil we will get that everywhere

 

 

 

In my experience, those Oldhamers who like to consider themselves Mancunians (but are inevitably not accepted as such by actual Mancunians) do not support Latics. They support United or City, to complete the whole sham package.

[bowl]

 

not having that, i aint no Manc or yorkshireman never have been, never will be.

 

im Lancastrian thanks duck

 

 

 

yeah right, you Yorkshire bastard

[F.O.B.]

As I keep having to say, I don't present any of this as indisputable fact. I do know plenty of Failsworth residents though, and have merely described the impression I get.

 

And everybody knows that during the sixties and seventies there was an enormous influx of people into Failsworth from places like Collyhurst, Miles Platting, Moston (the proper bit), Harpurhey, Ancoats etc etc. Wages had been rising for some time, people wanted out of the inner-city, and for people in those areas Failsworth was almost in the countryside yet conveniently close to family left behind etc.

 

This is what gives Failsworth its Mancunian flavour. It isn't a mystery.

 

You don't have to keep saying anything, it's your choice to.