boundaryblue80 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) For all the talk about Penney, budgets, right or wrong to sack Shez...I've one simple question... Personally, I think Shez had all the real coin left in the club in his 1st 2yrs and that Shez, Penney or Mourinho would've been in the same :censored: last season, but for Lee Hughes, as this season. So changing managers won't make a difference unless we stop bargain hunting. Edited January 24, 2010 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) So changing managers won't make a difference unless we stop bargain hunting. Unless you appoint a manager who chooses to move the big wages out of the club and replaces them with younger players who can the be moulded and developed in to a winning team. Difficult to do, but if you succeed your crowds go up as does your transfer fee revenue. Edited January 24, 2010 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) I voted Yes as even without Hughes there was still more quality in last years squad but the point you make in your post is probably true... Last years team would of been midtable at least without Hughes... Which was kind of proven towards the end I suppose with Hughes going / all the :censored: that happened... It would not of ended up in the relegation zone... The "budget" only covers wages... Sometimes you need to pay fees for players which is quite another thing... Edited January 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I thought it was his disruptive influence that ruined our season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 For all the talk about Penney, budgets, right or wrong to sack Shez...I've one simple question... Personally, I think Shez had all the real coin left in the club in his 1st 2yrs and that Shez, Penney or Mourinho would've been in the same :censored: last season, but for Lee Hughes, as this season. So changing managers won't make a difference unless we stop bargain hunting. BB80 Can I just check the questioin, are we saying this season would be same as last if we have had Lee Hughes, or last season would be the same as this season if we had Lee Hughes? Last season would have been the ame as this if no LH, and this season poss the ame as last, saying all that has made me think that this season might have been similar to last minus Whippet-gate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 I voted Yes as even without Hughes there was still more quality in last years squad but the point you make in your post is probably true... Last years team would of been midtable at least without Hughes... Which was kind of proven towards the end I suppose with Hughes going / all the :censored: that happened... It would not of ended up in the relegation zone... The "budget" only covers wages... Sometimes you need to pay fees for players which is quite another thing... You'll find that even with Hughes for a time and certainly after he left, our form wasn't anything like mid-table but nailed on relegation form! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) You'll find that even with Hughes for a time and certainly after he left, our form wasn't anything like mid-table but nailed on relegation form! Means nothing that mate... Pick any given 5 game span it can make you look like champions of the world or relegation fodder... What matters is where you lie at end of a full season... Edited January 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Means nothing that mate... Pick any given 5 game span it can make you look like champions of the world or relegation fodder... What matters is where you lie at end of a full season... Nah....5 game spans tell you nothing... December 2008 - May 2009 gives you all you need to know... 31pts from 28 games...over half a season of relegation form! Equates to 51pts and relegation over 46 games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 BB80 Can I just check the questioin, are we saying this season would be same as last if we have had Lee Hughes, or last season would be the same as this season if we had Lee Hughes? Last season would have been the ame as this if no LH, and this season poss the ame as last, saying all that has made me think that this season might have been similar to last minus Whippet-gate. The question's asking if last season would be the same as this season is, had we not had Lee Hughes last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Nah....5 game spans tell you nothing... December 2008 - May 2009 gives you all you need to know... 31pts from 28 games...over half a season of relegation form! Equates to 51pts and relegation over 46 games! Sorry mate but total rubbish again... Why do you feel you can just ignore the period where we was playing well ? Its about what you do over a season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Everyone of DPs imports have been less quality than the players they replaced... This side is nothing like the one we had last term... Eardley and Allott alone offer more than all of DPs imports... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Sorry mate but total rubbish again... Why do you feel you can just ignore the period where we was playing well ? Its about what you do over a season... Erm....clearly the point is being lost on you...we were playing well because Lee Hughes was playing well and scoring. If you want to ignore the distinct relation between Hughes playing well and us winning...to Hughes not being here or not being interested and playing :censored:, which was what happened between Dec-May and equated to relegation form....then you do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Erm....clearly the point is being lost on you...we were playing well because Lee Hughes was playing well and scoring. If you want to ignore the distinct relation between Hughes playing well and us winning...to Hughes not being here or not being interested and playing :censored:, which was what happened between Dec-May and equated to relegation form....then you do that. You clearly want to ignore the service provided to Hughes... Stick Abbott in last years team and no way would we be bottom four.... Never in a million years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) Means nothing that mate... Pick any given 5 game span it can make you look like champions of the world or relegation fodder... What matters is where you lie at end of a full season... No five game span involoved. Our form has been consistent since almost exactly 12 months ago when Sheridan's reign fell apart in a matter of a few weeks. Since then we have looked nothing other than a relegation team. Sheridan oversaw our descent to that, Royle and Penney have failed to turn it around. Hughes was at the club and "playing" throughout that descent into relegation form a year ago. We certainly lost nothing by Royle shipping him out for the remainder of last season. It's possible he would have scored the goals this season to improve our current standing (from relegation fodder to midtable mediocrity), but who knows whether we'd have seen the same player that has scored 11 in 9 for Notts County or the one that was so bad he was shipped out on loan by Royle. Edited January 24, 2010 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 For all the talk about Penney, budgets, right or wrong to sack Shez...I've one simple question... Personally, I think Shez had all the real coin left in the club in his 1st 2yrs and that Shez, Penney or Mourinho would've been in the same :censored: last season, but for Lee Hughes, as this season. So changing managers won't make a difference unless we stop bargain hunting. Don't want to stop bargain hunting - just need to actually find a bargain! Morison might not be popular after whatever happened yesterday but he did go for £5k for his last move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) No five game span involoved. Our form has been consistent since almost exactly 12 months ago when Sheridan's reign fell apart in a matter of a few weeks. Since then we have looked nothing other than a relegation team. Sheridan oversaw our descent to that, Royle and Penney have failed to turn it around. Hughes was at the club and "playing" throughout that descent into relegation form a year ago. We certainly lost nothing by Royle shipping him out for the remainder of last season. It's possible he would have scored the goals this season to improve our current standing (from relegation fodder to midtable mediocrity), but who knows whether we'd have seen the same player that has scored 11 in 9 for Notts County or the one that was so bad he was shipped out on loan by Royle. One thing I confident about is Hughes was the difference between a midtable and play off team... Without a Hughes you can not hope to challenge for the play offs. Taking Hughes out of that side would not of resulted in a relegation battle though... IMO Edited January 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Don't want to stop bargain hunting - just need to actually find a bargain! Morison might not be popular after whatever happened yesterday but he did go for £5k for his last move. True but you can't fill a squad with them as we've had to. The odd one or two may pay off but this habitual looking for players beneath us has left us in tatters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 True but you can't fill a squad with them as we've had to. The odd one or two may pay off but this habitual looking for players beneath us has left us in tatters. Indeed, but when was the last time we found a bargain at all? Strikes me the scouting system needs a serious shake up along with much else. The reord of players we have paid a fee for in the last few seasons is abysmal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 One thing I confident about is Hughes was the difference between a midtable and play off team... Without a Hughes you can not hope to challenge for the play offs. Taking Hughes out of that side would not of resulted in a relegation battle though... IMO Agreed. A good squad needs a talismanic goal scorer to go up - look at the squad of just about every single club that has achieved promotion from League One and you'll find one. However that is different to saying that last season's squad without Hughes is as bad as this season's. Although on paper, and perhaps without so many injuries, I'm still struggling to understand why this season's squad is failing so badly. If you added a fit Abbott and Jacobson to last season's squad in place of the succession of loanee left-backs and strikers (or, if you prefer, Lomax and O'Grady) then we may have done even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Indeed, but when was the last time we found a bargain at all? Strikes me the scouting system needs a serious shake up along with much else. The reord of players we have paid a fee for in the last few seasons is abysmal. Given that our chief scout has just left, either someone has realised that or we have been given that opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Indeed, but when was the last time we found a bargain at all? Strikes me the scouting system needs a serious shake up along with much else. The record of players we have paid a fee for in the last few seasons is abysmal. Results without Hughes' goals Chelteham (H) W1-0 MK Dons (H) D1-1 Hartlepool (A) L2-3 Hereford (H) W3-0 Southend (A) D1-1 Walsall (H) L1-2 Peterborough (A) L0-2 Crewe (A) W1-0 Hartlepool (H) D1-1 Stockport (H) W2-1 Millwall (A) D2-2 Leeds (H) L0-1 Mongs (A) L1-6 His goals helped to secure 14 points and without those 14 goals we would have finished 17th...sobering thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) Results without Hughes' goals Chelteham (H) W1-0 MK Dons (H) D1-1 Hartlepool (A) L2-3 Hereford (H) W3-0 Southend (A) D1-1 Walsall (H) L1-2 Peterborough (A) L0-2 Crewe (A) W1-0 Hartlepool (H) D1-1 Stockport (H) W2-1 Millwall (A) D2-2 Leeds (H) L0-1 Mongs (A) L1-6 His goals helped to secure 14 points and without those 14 goals we would have finished 17th...sobering thought! But if we did not have Hughes we would of had someone else... Like I suggest Abbott (not as good as Hughes but handy).. So I reckon we would of got half those points still quite possibly... I also do not think the season would of ended as bad under Shez as it did under Joe to be fair... Edited January 24, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) QUOTE (Dave_Og @ Jan 24 2010, 16:39 PM) Don't want to stop bargain hunting - just need to actually find a bargain! Morison might not be popular after whatever happened yesterday but he did go for £5k for his last move. True but you can't fill a squad with them as we've had to. The odd one or two may pay off but this habitual looking for players beneath us has left us in tatters. These are 2 sad facts, you have both made. The TTA have back managrs paying over the odds for lower league players, they have backed managers signing over the odds higher league players (Windass, Byfield, Kabba) etc. THE loans have not worked generally. AS Garcon says the Cheif Scout has gone, time for a re-think or poach someone proven. Who has Penney had previously? That may be another peice in his jigsaw. Edited January 24, 2010 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Ronnie Moore Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Results without Hughes' goals Chelteham (H) W1-0 MK Dons (H) D1-1 Hartlepool (A) L2-3 Hereford (H) W3-0 Southend (A) D1-1 Walsall (H) L1-2 Peterborough (A) L0-2 Crewe (A) W1-0 Hartlepool (H) D1-1 Stockport (H) W2-1 Millwall (A) D2-2 Leeds (H) L0-1 Mongs (A) L1-6 His goals helped to secure 14 points and without those 14 goals we would have finished 17th...sobering thought! We beat Walsall at home last season, 3-2 wasn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 We beat Walsall at home last season, 3-2 wasn't it? Hughes scored 2 of them. If we "disallow" his goals we lost 2-1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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