edhunteruk Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Decent shot shopper? He does the odd good save, but most of the time he is quite shocking at shot stopping amongst other things. not really...he has the goalkeeping trait of when he doesnt have to think about it he does the basics right..when he has to think and use his head to work out what to do he messes up...and there have been a fair few of those over the years at bp and other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 You normally talk a lot of sense Diego...As for criticising an Amosesque performance from Brill today - nah we would have been dancing in the streets .. Amos marshalled the defence (although his kicking is no better than Brill, he got lucky with the free kick and missed a cross first half - great save at 1-0 although it was a nice height for him). He cleared well from the corner but the one that hit the post would have hit the back of his head after hitting the back of the net before he landed....well beaten. I suppose I talked sense when I pointed out how Brill has kept us in games with crucial saves, with which you agreed. I know his shortcomings, but I don't persecute him, as many do in the crowd. You see it as not talking sense for me to remind even the poorest of memories that Brill has been criticised for anything less than a perfect performance, including the warm-up before the game, and he would certainly have been criticised for the sort of minor lapses of Amos today, by those who have become obsessed with persecuting him. Amos may well prove to be the missing link, but as I keep saying, every keeper makes mistakes. The secret to helping the keeper retain his confidence is to not get on his back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabjones Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I had no intention of coming today as long as Brill was starting so my mood soon changed on Friday when Amos arrived. Money is very tight at the moment and the thought of spending £40 on tickets which could go down the drain by a typical Brill blunder wasn’t an option. I have said it all season if we made the play offs there is no way Brill wouldn’t cost us one of the 3 matches if we got to the final. It had David Miskelly and Alan Blayney written all over it. I did turn up and spent my £40 on tickets for me and my good lady and felt more confidence in Amos than I ever have in Brill. Will go on record as saying I predict he will be the best all-round keeper we have had since Grant. Only time will tell how good Amos will be for us but I am not having this Dean has been unlucky rubbish. From his first pre season match right through to his last game I have never had confidence in him and I doubt his back four ever have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Was the penalty the right call? Without bias, was it stonewall? Some refs would/some refs wouldn't? Harsh? I didn't get a good view of it from the RRE. Just wondering 'cause I feel cheated that we had to rely on a penalty when it would have been more satisfying to hold out for a resolute and hard earned 1-0. The second goal took the fight out of them and robbed us for what would have been an exhilarating final 5 or so minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky_Latic Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Poor game, but three points despite not playing that well is a good sign. There are some absolute balloons in the Main Stand upper. Never heard so much tosh spouted around me in a 90 minutes before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_ragg1984 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Was the penalty the right call? Without bias, was it stonewall? Some refs would/some refs wouldn't? Harsh? I didn't get a good view of it from the RRE. Just wondering 'cause I feel cheated that we had to rely on a penalty when it would have been more satisfying to hold out for a resolute and hard earned 1-0. The second goal took the fight out of them and robbed us for what would have been an exhilarating final 5 or so minutes. It was about as stonewall as you will ever get. For some bizarre reason, which we will never know, their defender decided to punch the ball as it was flying over his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 It was about as stonewall as you will ever get. For some bizarre reason, which we will never know, their defender decided to punch the ball as it was flying over his head. I will be letting several people out of my garden shed as soon as I have finished this bottle. Sometimes alternative measures are required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayItLivo Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) It was about as stonewall as you will ever get. For some bizarre reason, which we will never know, their defender decided to punch the ball as it was flying over his head. Ah, fair enough. There's no FL show tonight so I haven't had chance to see the highlights. It was Charlie Austin though that hand-balled it. Swindon fans are píssed off because it's not the first penalty he's conceded for them this season. Dunno why at 1-0 down they had their main striker back defending, I know he's a tall guy, but that late on in the game, with our players pushing up for a corner surely you'd leave your main striker up the pitch to play a part in a counter attack. Edited January 9, 2011 by PlayItLivo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Amos did OK for a debut with strangers, but Brill would have been slaughtered by many for a similar display. Yeah there was a few of his goalkicks where i thought 'Brill would have got crucified for that', but the difference in quality was obvious. The save from Ritchie was superb. And well done to the bloke who shouted "good save, Tori" 20 minutes into the 1st half. You waited as long as you could, didn't you mate? As people have said, we didn't play as well as we did against Rochdale, but it was a good win against what looked a very decent side. Defended well, created easily enough chances to win the game. And yet another example of Dickov being the polar opposite of Dave Penney: injury time, 2-0 up, and he brings on a striker for a midfielder. Long may it continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 It was Charlie Austin though that hand-balled it. Swindon fans are píssed off because it's not the first penalty he's conceded for them this season. To be fair, he more than makes up for it at the other end usually. Except against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 To be fair, he more than makes up for it at the other end usually. Except against us. The new Jermaine Beckford? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snookmeister Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Yeah there was a few of his goalkicks where i thought 'Brill would have got crucified for that', but the difference in quality was obvious. The save from Ritchie was superb. And well done to the bloke who shouted "good save, Tori" 20 minutes into the 1st half. You waited as long as you could, didn't you mate? As people have said, we didn't play as well as we did against Rochdale, but it was a good win against what looked a very decent side. Defended well, created easily enough chances to win the game. And yet another example of Dickov being the polar opposite of Dave Penney: injury time, 2-0 up, and he brings on a striker for a midfielder. Long may it continue. I'll take the odd mis-cued kick out for a throw. That doesn't make us go a goal down. It's Brill's more serious shortcomings that bother me the most. As I've said earlier in the this thread, Brill has well-established form for dropping clangers, and his back four have no confidence in him which affects the way we play. As for those saying we didn't play well today, I'm not so sure that's the case. We played differently today. We ditched the normal gung-ho attacking after we went one up and decided to hit them on the break. How many times this season have we said that we couldn't break a team down at home? The most dangerous we've been at home this season has been against Hudders where we ripped them apart on the counter. We tend to fare well when the oppo comes at us. So despite not taking the game to Swindon, we defended very well whilst still creating chances. I would argue that we DID play well today. Not pretty or exciting, but professional and it worked. Edited January 9, 2011 by Snookmeister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) ... I feel cheated that we had to rely on a penalty when it would have been more satisfying to hold out for a resolute and hard earned 1-0. The second goal took the fight out of them and robbed us for what would have been an exhilarating final 5 or so minutes. This has to be a whoosh! Fair enough to win 1-0, when it proved very difficult to create much without having possession of the ball, would have been an achievement. With the amount of possession Latics kept giving away to Swindon, there was every possibility of two points disappearing in those final minutes. What you refer to as "exhilarating", I would call nail-biting with the real possibility of this being a doom and gloom thread. The penalty produced a massive sigh of relief around the ground. Surrendering possession of the ball against Southampton will be a very risky business. We have enough players who can be comfortable on the ball to compete against any team, but persistent underhit or overhit passes, like we see in nearly every game, result in the opposition putting excessive pressure on our defenders and create the need for us to score more than one goal. Dunno why at 1-0 down they had their main striker back defending, I know he's a tall guy, but that late on in the game, with our players pushing up for a corner surely you'd leave your main striker up the pitch to play a part in a counter attack. Dickov follows the same line of thinking as Danny Wilson, which can result in a too-many-cooks-spoiling-the-broth situation. Edited January 9, 2011 by Diego_Sideburns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I suppose I talked sense when I pointed out how Brill has kept us in games with crucial saves, with which you agreed. I know his shortcomings, but I don't persecute him, as many do in the crowd. You see it as not talking sense for me to remind even the poorest of memories that Brill has been criticised for anything less than a perfect performance, including the warm-up before the game, and he would certainly have been criticised for the sort of minor lapses of Amos today, by those who have become obsessed with persecuting him. Amos may well prove to be the missing link, but as I keep saying, every keeper makes mistakes. The secret to helping the keeper retain his confidence is to not get on his back. Every keeper makes mistakes (I played in goal for years and made my fair share!) in the good old days we made Schmeichel look a mug on several occasions. Brill's a third division keeper and of course he'll make mistakes but Brill goes through spells where he is dropping match-losing clangers every week. The frustrating thing is that often there's no pressure on him and then he falls to pieces. As for his kicking - it's never been an issue with me - as long as he clears it away from the goal, that'll do for me. It wasn't so long ago that, that was all keepers were capable of anyway in the first few years after the backpass rule was introduced. It's nothing personal against Brill and I have often praised him and defended him against a lot of unfair and petty criticism, he did well to come back this season with a clean slate after working hard in pre-season. Unfortunately his shortcomings have become more and more prevalent over the last few games and when you're letting in avoidable goals almost every game something has to give. (Both from a goalkeeping and defenders point of view) As for Amos i'm sure he'll make a fair few mistakes (Gary Kelly probably our most consistent keeper over the last 20 years regularly dropped bollocks but we forgave him for the amount of games he kept us in) but the difference will be is that I reckon young Ben will save more than he lets in and kicking aside he already looks to have more to his basic game than Brill will ever have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Is it just me who thought that when we were breaking forward, Taylor in particular, that heads were down and not looking for an option to pass, happened a few times when we had a good break on; we just ran into the back line, also I thought there was a fair bit of ball watching...rather than looking for a space to run into and give the defenders/ midfielders an option of spreading the ball we were rooted.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Every keeper makes mistakes (I played in goal for years and made my fair share!) in the good old ...the difference will be is that I reckon young Ben will save more than he lets in and kicking aside he already looks to have more to his basic game than Brill will ever have. At the risk of repeating, my point is that if young Ben's mistakes cost us points, let's not get on his back, because that will not improve his confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Is it just me who thought that when we were breaking forward, Taylor in particular, that heads were down and not looking for an option to pass, happened a few times when we had a good break on; we just ran into the back line, also I thought there was a fair bit of ball watching...rather than looking for a space to run into and give the defenders/ midfielders an option of spreading the ball we were rooted.... No, it is not just you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 At the risk of repeating, my point is that if young Ben's mistakes cost us points, let's not get on his back, because that will not improve his confidence. To be fair I've not heard too many on Brill's back in the ground, not sure what it's like at the front of the Chaddy or the RRE but the people I've been sat with have have been pretty supportive. I had one row with an idiot behind me when sat in my usual seat in the Paddock when he saw fit to abuse Brill after the Bournemouth free-kick. As for young Amos I'm sure the usual clowns will make reference to his OT connections once he 'throws one in'. But that's just Latics fans for you, like the fact when we lose a game this board goes into overdrive immediately from the final whistle whereas after a VITAL win yesterday that gets us back on track we hope after a difficult six weeks it's tumbleweed time… Anyhow good luck to Brill, if he keeps working hard and tries to work on his short-comings he'll be back. Up until the middle of October he'd done ok then the wheels begin to come off. It's a shame that after two dodgy games v Plymouth and Accrington, he puts in two decent performances v Huddersfield and Dagenham and saves us a point at Dale but mistakes v Exeter, Hartlepool and shared responsibility v Dale at home have cost him his place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) No, it is not just you. I thought we looked incredibly nervous at times yesterday, the early goal was the difference. Hazell led by example yesterday and was actually much more vocal. Trotman was a man-mountain, Black had his best game for weeks too. The rest of them (Lee and Morais apart) looked reluctant and unsure. Stephens was too deep and Furman followed suit so we often surrendered possession. Tonk looked burnt out and was limping late on and Taylor went into headless chicken mode when often in a good position. Lee looked tidy and assured. Morais added a bit of assurance and at least kept the ball and I've given him a disservice by criticising his end product as both goals came from his crosses. We were happy with what we had at 1-0, as from about 25 minutes in we were trying to defend in numbers and perhaps hit Swindon on the break, it nearly cost us but Ben Amos made two good saves, and we were rescued by the woodwork. We enjoyed a bit of good fortune from a game which I reckon we put in possibly our worst home performance of the season, ironic that that we played much better vs Rochdale yet mistakes meant we were left empty. It shows the value of not making mistakes at key times and the keeper and back four were flawless yesterday and if that's the type of manky win that takes us into the top 6 then bring it on every week! Edited January 9, 2011 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 To be fair I've not heard too many on Brill's back in the ground, not sure what it's like at the front of the Chaddy or the RRE but the people I've been sat with have have been pretty supportive. Both home and away, "Brill" has been the common term of abuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsgrandad Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Is it just me who thought that when we were breaking forward, Taylor in particular, that heads were down and not looking for an option to pass, happened a few times when we had a good break on; we just ran into the back line, also I thought there was a fair bit of ball watching...rather than looking for a space to run into and give the defenders/ midfielders an option of spreading the ball we were rooted.... I can agree with some of that as, the goals apart, the best chances we had did come from counter attacks that ended up with either the player on the ball running into a blind alley through not seeing passing options or a defender getting the block in on a goal-bound shot. However, on the positive side, it was good to see CT attempting to get back to what he did best - running at (and hopefully past) defenders and getting into or creating goal scoring opportunities. Just one minor niggle for me - why oh why does Dale Stephens think the only effective pass has to be a 60 yard cross field David Beckham type pass. Granted, he does have the ability to execute that type of pass but for me, a quick 5 yard interchange with Furman yields far better results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Both home and away, "Brill" has been the common term of abuse. Trouble is once some fans decide a player is 'crap' they will never let go, which is sad. I criticised Hazell on here on Monday not during the game as I was too busy holding my head in my hands, but i'm full of praise of how he bounced back yesterday and played a 'Captain's Knock' and I let him know it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Has many have said, yesterday wasn't a great performance in pure footballing terms. Our passing and ball retention was way below par however, it was a very satisfying and much needed win. Sure I think that since the Rochdale loss that the management team have tried to emphasize the importance of being a more solid unit and not conceeding whilst in front or level in games which showed in the performance yesterday, but wasn't the only contributing factor as to why it panned out like it did. I think Swindon had a big say in that too. I am not saying the management team asked the side to be more defensive but to remember that side of the game plan in equal measure to play making and going forward. I felt Swindon did have the lions share of the ball (without looking at the match stats) and passed the ball far better than we did. However where we excelled yesterday was the pressing and the closing down. Many occasions we forced Swindon backwards and for all the ball they had a lot of it was outside our last third. Indeed two of our good chances were created by the pressing and robbing the ball on the half way line that lead to break aways and shots on goal. Perhaps those shots could have had more quality which brings us round to what may have said we need a good quality finisher in the ranks. On to the keeper debate. This is the second season two different managers have felt the need to remove Dean Brill from the starting line up. Unfortunately for a goal keeper more of his decisions lead to match result deciding moments. I am on record as saying that Brill has done much better this season (certainly early doors). He has made some good saves, his kicking can be suss at times but it's not a major concern. Brill's failings his decision making to come off his line. A keeper who stays on his line when a cross or free kick is being kicked into the net from inside the 6 yard box is onto a losser. Especially when the ball as been in the air for a long way. He must come and collect or at least get the ball away from danger. Any sort of contact from an attacking player that turns the ball a foot either side of a rooted Dean Brill is a goal. That's his big problem. On to Amos' debut. I think the lad's kicking sideways in open play his his worst attribute (as witnessed and been told). That said I noticed he kicked with either foot to at least the half way line and whilst kicking down pitch this was acceptable in the main. Where I hope he proves to be a good addition is the command of his box. Sometimes the mere presence of a keeper coming to challenge for an ariel ball means the attacker can't direct his effort goal bound let alone tap one in! So for me yesterday we were poor on the footballing side but great on the defending and pressing side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lags Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Both home and away, "Brill" has been the common term of abuse. I disagree. Many games I've been to this season Dean Brill as had chants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeP Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) I acrtually thought they gacve the crowd as 4-thousand odd, not 3. We had over 5k of "home" fans vs 'dale. about 2k didn't bother to come back. Sometimes I think some people should just stay away permanently, rather than just turn up for the "big" games. Do they actually deserve the right to call themselves supporters with that type of attendance? Well, if they are exiles like myself, who were at the game on Monday because they were back for the Bank Holiday and can't get to Boundary Park for every home game due to distance, then yes. If they just can't be @rsed going to the less "glamerous" games, then no, probably not...... Edited January 9, 2011 by JoeP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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