oafc0000 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Regarding the suggestion we have learnt nothing since Iraq and the need for a plan afterwards... They were saying yesterday on Sky News how it was very different from Iraq and how there has been a very detailed plan drawn up by the rebels on how things will work after this is all over... Now I am as cynical as the next person about all this but at the same time I don't want to wish failure on the rebels... I am sure we have been more involved than we have publicly acknowledged but they are also going to need the West's and Chinas support in the years to come if they are to rebuild and sort out of the country. It isn't going to be cheap. Edited August 23, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) There is oil... It is worth money / power / control... That is the only reason why we are doing this IMO. Totally agree with that. At the same time, it is a fantastic resource available to the Lebanese people to get money in to rebuild the place... Edited August 23, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Why would it be about oil ? Libya was already part of the international oil markets and had billions of pounds worth of deals with BP, ENI etc. I might be naive, but I prefer to believe that we (UK, France, US, some Arab nations etc)got involved to stop a massacre - one that was about to develop massively in Benghazi. It's pretty obvious why we're not getting involved in Syria (yet) - nobody has the stomach for WW3. And what about all the other massacres we selectively ignored over the years ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Why would it be about oil ? Libya was already part of the international oil markets and had billions of pounds worth of deals with BP, ENI etc. My understanding is that BP does not have a big say in that region... Aren't they just doing some offshore (hopeful) drilling ? This clip on the BBC explains further and shows how the West could profit more going forward... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14627557 Edited August 23, 2011 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 What does BP have to do with any of this? We can't build in Failsworth, we can't build at the bottom of Furtherwood Rd and now we can't build in Libya! Bloody OMBC, FRAG and the nimbies!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukers1 Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Looks like thats that then, I wonder how many special forces were on the ground?, if any Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 And what about all the other massacres we selectively ignored over the years ? Which other massacres are you referring to ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 My understanding is that BP does not have a big say in that region... Aren't they just doing some offshore (hopeful) drilling ? This clip on the BBC explains further and shows how the West could profit more going forward... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14627557 It doesn't take long searching the internet to find many details of oil deals involing BP and other foreign companies. The offshore BP deal you probably refer to was an initial 1bn deal. If it was about oil, why would Britain and US risk the contracts signed with Gadaffi ? Under a new govt, all those contracts are probably now up for grabs again and you'll have the French, Italians and Russians etc now all competing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Rwanda is the big one, its been going on all over ethiopia/eritrea more recently, not to mention the sudan. I'm not in favort of intervening in any but i think its far to point out that the west has been rather selective in where it gets involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 LL's highlight some of many. As for the oil, I can't retrieve the link as I'm on my phone, but it was reported just before we went in that Gadaffi was putting our oil contracts in the bin. The oil is now secure because private security firms are protecting the infrastructure as they are in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I assume Afghanistan is about gas pipelines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I think that was more about American revenge. But I can't say that with as much conviction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 There was little sense in blowing afghanistan up on account of a plot planned in germany and financed and carried out by saudis. I've yet to see any evidence that afghans are good at much apart from fighting very hard with all that they have against people in their neighbourhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 There was little sense in blowing afghanistan up on account of a plot planned in germany and financed and carried out by saudis. I've yet to see any evidence that afghans are good at much apart from fighting very hard with all that they have against people in their neighbourhood. There's only one thing the Afghans enjoy more than killing each other. Killing foreigners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Rwanda is the big one, its been going on all over ethiopia/eritrea more recently, not to mention the sudan. I'm not in favort of intervening in any but i think its far to point out that the west has been rather selective in where it gets involved. When we found out about Rwanda we did something about it. A consequence of a massacre that big was no one was around to tell the tail. If we had gone in and killed the people who did the killing we would have been killing kids as young as 8 and no older than 18 who were on a dangerous cocktail of addicitive drugs and gun powder. The ones in charge who we could get in Rwanda were got by British, French and probably Belgian and Yank special forces. Unfortunately some of the top brass murderers fled across the man made border to Congo/Zaire and we will struggle to get them now, nevermind then. Very few people knew about our forces being in Sierre Leone until some of them got kidnapped and we sent in the SAS to get them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I will stand to be corrected but i thought we were openly in sierra leone - wasnt it one of tone's showboating exercises? As for rwanda, you talk about catching people after, i reckon that if you were into averting the slaughter before it took place that much could have been done. More than sending a dozen belgians in blue hats to an unspeakable death and then doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) I will stand to be corrected but i thought we were openly in sierra leone - wasnt it one of tone's showboating exercises? As for rwanda, you talk about catching people after, i reckon that if you were into averting the slaughter before it took place that much could have been done. More than sending a dozen belgians in blue hats to an unspeakable death and then doing nothing. How do you avert an ethnic cleansing which killed people at a rate of 10000 people per day? Especially in a country with no infrastructure outside the capital. Even then the infrastructure in Kigali would make the Shetland Islands look like 22nd century. I'd have to look it up but our nearest embassy/consulate/commission could easily be 1000 miles away across a inhospitable jungle. My Dad was in Kigali within 12 months of the disaster being known about despite trying to contact him regularly I managed it once in 2 weeks and that was via a UN base which might not have been there whilst the disaster was on going. I'd like to think that the British could not have done much more to avert a genocide that killed roughly 800000 in around 100 days. However, other countries could have. Edited August 24, 2011 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Indeed, i dont think the uk could have done a lot, but just to put the case some of my more interventionist friends would make, the USA could have blown the :censored: out of a few places close to home of the people who organised the plane crash which started it all and got a couple of dozen appaches near likely flashpoints. I dare say that a lot of murdering would have gone on anyway and it would only be stored up for down the road anyway, but if protecting life is the key then the west failed to act then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 NTC Official claims Gaddafi was badly wounded in both legs and captured along with one of his sons and taken to Misrata, after coming under NATO fire while trying to flee from Sirte. Libyan TV reporting that Gaddafi is dead. Picture taken on mobile phone shown on TV. Reuters have now confirmed the death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Oh noes! Those pesky NTC peeps! Now the international courts aren't able to prosecute him and ask him all those difficult questions regarding which western governments have been propping him up all these years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboafc Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 the end of gaddaffi .............A bloodied Gaddafi is shown among a group of armed men who are shouting and jostling the former dictator. It follows video that purportedly shows anti-Gaddafi fighters surrounding the body of the ousted Libyan leader before it is loaded onto the back of a vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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