Poppies

[astottie]

sorry double post

Edited November 6, 2011 by astottie

[underdog]

Because the poster has an issue with the word hero.

 

So I am curious now that I believe the poster is a parent and the child says "your my hero" would the child be in trouble?

 

Or is it just hero and armed services in the same posting that they have an issue with?

[underdog]

sorry double post

 

So your having a go twice eh?...I can take it

[oafc0000]

Because the poster has an issue with the word hero.

 

So I am curious now that I believe the poster is a parent and the child says "your my hero" would the child be in trouble?

 

Or is it just hero and armed services in the same posting that they have an issue with?

 

Try reading the whole thread... Context is everything...

[seasidelatic]

The idea that these soldiers who joined, of their own volition, the army/air force/navy and are serving in Iraq or Afghanistan are heroes is utterly stupid. Who are they saving? Who are they serving? They don't serve my interests, or yours. Unless you have shares in Shell/BP/ExxonMobil.

 

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." - Albert Einstein.

[RobOAFC]

The idea that these soldiers who joined, of their own volition, the army/air force/navy and are serving in Iraq or Afghanistan are heroes is utterly stupid. Who are they saving? Who are they serving? They don't serve my interests, or yours. Unless you have shares in Shell/BP/ExxonMobil.

 

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder." - Albert Einstein.

 

Erm, are they not helping to fight terroism? Stopping Terroism over there, and by that, stopping it from potentially reaching Britain by orders from Al-Qaeda and any other terroism groups that there are over there? Is potentially saving millions of lives not in your interests?

[opinions4u]

Heroes probably isn't the right word.

 

But having :censored: myself playing paintball I have nothing but respect for these guys.

 

And support any efforts to assist them when they return from duty with a leg missing or a piece of metal stuck in their eye.

 

Go back 2 or 3 years and I recall reports of returning squaddies being treated badly in the streets. I think the Help For Heroes charity has turned this round successfully. So good PR and good charitable support.

 

Regardless of the idiot politicians who make decisions to send these guys in to battle, the soldiers themselves deserve our backing.

 

Erm, are they not helping to fight terroism? Stopping Terroism over there, and by that, stopping it from potentially reaching Britain by orders from Al-Qaeda and any other terroism groups that there are over there?

Well that's what the politicians tell us. I'm not sure any of them have convincingly made the case though.

 

It's a fine place for building gas pipelines though. If it's secure.

Edited November 7, 2011 by opinions4u

[Matt]

Try reading the whole thread... Context is everything...

...otherwise underdog might think you meant Batman, a song by Enrique Inglesias or little chocolate treats.

 

Because the poster has an issue with the word hero.

 

So I am curious now that I believe the poster is a parent and the child says "your my hero" would the child be in trouble?

 

Or is it just hero and armed services in the same posting that they have an issue with?

 

[oafc0000]

...otherwise underdog might think you meant Batman, a song by Enrique Inglesias or little chocolate treats.

 

 

 

 

Ah crap... Sorry rummy I hit -1 by accident lol!!! Pitty there isn't a way to remove ratings

[davebuckley06]

A few of them are heroes but not all. I think it's fair to call a solider who runs back into gunfire to save a fallen soliders life a hero or I remember reading about the bomb disposal guy who died trying to disarm one after successfully disarming a 100 plus before that one he could be called a hero but not the everyday solider who jus goes out an does his job for the gain of the government and oil companies. I think to brandish them all as Herod shows a great disrespect to the true heros out there and not just the ones fighting in the British army

[seasidelatic]

A few of them are heroes but not all. I think it's fair to call a solider who runs back into gunfire to save a fallen soliders life a hero or I remember reading about the bomb disposal guy who died trying to disarm one after successfully disarming a 100 plus before that one he could be called a hero but not the everyday solider who jus goes out an does his job for the gain of the government and oil companies. I think to brandish them all as Herod shows a great disrespect to the true heros out there and not just the ones fighting in the British army

 

 

Erm, are they not helping to fight terroism? Stopping Terroism over there, and by that, stopping it from potentially reaching Britain by orders from Al-Qaeda and any other terroism groups that there are over there? Is potentially saving millions of lives not in your interests?

 

The blokes who blew themselves up in the 7/7 attacks were British, well three were and one was Jamaican.

 

The blokes who flew aeroplanes into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon were Egyptian, Lebanese and Saudi.

 

Of all the people accused of the Madrid bombings, there were no Iraqis or Afghans.

 

 

 

 

We went to Iraq on the back of lies about weapons of mass destruction and UN resolutions for us to inspect weapons that didn't exist. If they had existed, the British government should have known, as they would have been the most likely candidates to sell them to Saddam. Same too with Libya.

The US had trained and funded Bin Laden in the 70s, the Bin Laden family are running buddies with the Bush family.

To suggest either the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan were anything more than a political coup is nonsense. The troops were sent to remove the government and replace them with one more favourable to the West's thirst for oil/gas.

They're not heroes. Doctors who save lives are heroes. Soldiers who kill people and air force pilots who bomb homes and hospitals full of civilians aren't heroes.

[seasidelatic]

Erm, are they not helping to fight terroism? Stopping Terroism over there, and by that, stopping it from potentially reaching Britain by orders from Al-Qaeda and any other terroism groups that there are over there? Is potentially saving millions of lives not in your interests?

 

 

Also, the amount of people killed, in total, in the only terrorist attacks on British or US soil: 3,047.

 

Total amount of Iraqis killed since the US/UK invasion in 2003: 1,000,000+

 

Whose freedom is being taken away? Ours or the Iraqis?

 

 

(I've not just pulled that 1,000,000 out of the air, it's probably more than that. Between 7000 and 10000 Iraqi soldiers died during the initial invasion, 21000-26000 insurgents killed since Saddam was toppled; Civilian deaths (purely from counting up dead bodies) is between 103,000 and 112,000, estimated excess deaths (from the Lancet, not some pie in the sky nonsense) 650,000, and 'estimated violent deaths' from the Iraq Family Heath Survey is 151,000. That isn't counting the 4000 US soldiers who've died, 179 UK soldiers who've died and the 32,000 wounded. 1000+ contractors killed, thouands more wounded. And for what? All those lives pointlessly wasted.)

[tony4938]

The blokes who blew themselves up in the 7/7 attacks were British, well three were and one was Jamaican.

 

The blokes who flew aeroplanes into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon were Egyptian, Lebanese and Saudi.

 

Of all the people accused of the Madrid bombings, there were no Iraqis or Afghans.

 

 

 

 

We went to Iraq on the back of lies about weapons of mass destruction and UN resolutions for us to inspect weapons that didn't exist. If they had existed, the British government should have known, as they would have been the most likely candidates to sell them to Saddam. Same too with Libya.

The US had trained and funded Bin Laden in the 70s, the Bin Laden family are running buddies with the Bush family.

To suggest either the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan were anything more than a political coup is nonsense. The troops were sent to remove the government and replace them with one more favourable to the West's thirst for oil/gas.

They're not heroes. Doctors who save lives are heroes. Soldiers who kill people and air force pilots who bomb homes and hospitals full of civilians aren't heroes.

 

 

While i agree the 'hero' term in banded about too loosely these days, if you are saying doctors who save people are heroes when they are only doing their jobs, then a soldier who kills to save lives must surely fall in the same category.

[Matt]

Ah crap... Sorry rummy I hit -1 by accident lol!!! Pitty there isn't a way to remove ratings

No worries.

[OldhamSheridan]

While i agree the 'hero' term in banded about too loosely these days, if you are saying doctors who save people are heroes when they are only doing their jobs, then a soldier who kills to save lives must surely fall in the same category.

 

And here is the big point. The doctor is only doing his job. As is the soldier.

 

It's his job. He hasn't been conscripted. It's a choice they make. They get well paid in the event that they may have a limb blown off/be killed. Otherwise we'd just be paying them to go on a :censored: holiday.

 

As for the Help for Heroes/any other charity - we really have things arse about in this country. We won't elect people if they increase taxes. Due to the lack of money from the lower taxes we don't have enough for what are required services such as cancer research or services for injured soldiers, so we emotionally blackmail the people not paying enough taxes to give money. I've an idea. Lobby your MP to get the government to pay for this :censored:. It's what I pay my taxes for. If I have to pay more for a better life all round, so be it.

[oafc0000]

And here is the big point. The doctor is only doing his job. As is the soldier.

 

It's his job. He hasn't been conscripted. It's a choice they make. They get well paid in the event that they may have a limb blown off/be killed. Otherwise we'd just be paying them to go on a :censored: holiday.

 

As for the Help for Heroes/any other charity - we really have things arse about in this country. We won't elect people if they increase taxes. Due to the lack of money from the lower taxes we don't have enough for what are required services such as cancer research or services for injured soldiers, so we emotionally blackmail the people not paying enough taxes to give money. I've an idea. Lobby your MP to get the government to pay for this :censored:. It's what I pay my taxes for. If I have to pay more for a better life all round, so be it.

 

Nice idea but it will never catch on

 

I do agree though.

[opinions4u]

I'd agree.

 

If governments of all colours could ever learn to spend money efficiently and responsibly.

[tony4938]

And here is the big point. The doctor is only doing his job. As is the soldier.

 

It's his job. He hasn't been conscripted. It's a choice they make. They get well paid in the event that they may have a limb blown off/be killed. Otherwise we'd just be paying them to go on a :censored: holiday.

 

As for the Help for Heroes/any other charity - we really have things arse about in this country. We won't elect people if they increase taxes. Due to the lack of money from the lower taxes we don't have enough for what are required services such as cancer research or services for injured soldiers, so we emotionally blackmail the people not paying enough taxes to give money. I've an idea. Lobby your MP to get the government to pay for this :censored:. It's what I pay my taxes for. If I have to pay more for a better life all round, so be it.

 

And i agree to a point, what i'm trying to say is that they are either both heroes or neither are.

[oafc0000]

And i agree to a point, what i'm trying to say is that they are either both heroes or neither are.

 

I think both are capable of performing heroic acts while not being heroic by default.

 

At the same time, mostly you should show both respect. They are both doing a very valuable job to ensure our lives continue as they are. As much as I question the "British Interest" and the things our government asks of our solders I would be stupid to not recognise the benefits I get every day from the "British Interest". Likewise, the benefits the doctor brings is clear.

[tony4938]

very well said!

[Scapegoat]

Thought that our FA Cup match was the first time it was done. Good thing to have done.

 

Re: the cost of putting it on a shirt vs giving it directly to British Legion. For me it raises the publicity of the poppy with a group of young people at football that might not otherwise care - and also I'd hope that kit manufacturers would do it at cost rather than full price.

[jimsleftfoot]

And i agree to a point, what i'm trying to say is that they are either both heroes or neither are.

 

No one is heroic by title, they are heroic only by their individual actions.

[razza699]

We are wearing them on Sat

 

 

http://www.oldhamathletic.co.uk/page/NewsUpdate/0,,10337~2512945,00.html

[opinions4u]

Good.

[pukka]

I am expecting a lynching for this but -

 

I wish football would stop getting on its high horse. Minutes silence for too much. Going to a football match is not the time and place for rememberance of dead soldiers. I have a friend in Afghanistan and if something does happen to him would I feel differently? No, I don't believe I would. There is a time and a place. Football seems to try and take a high ground on so much and it gets on my nerves. I wouldn't expect a football match to break off at the Cenotaph on sunday and I don't believe a minutes silence is appropriate at a match. Why just sporting events? Why not at the cinema? Or the theatre?

 

I buy my poppy, I do a 2 minutes silence today - which is wholely appropriate and exactly whats required.