Fitness Regime at Latics

[opinions4u]

Rumour only stuff this.

 

I've heard from two separate sources that different players are a tad unimpressed with the current fitness regime at Latics and consider it to be lacking in professionalism. So while the amount of time spent on fitness is fine, the content is lacking.

 

It might be one to file under "bollocks". It might just be a couple of disaffected inidividuals. But when you hear it from two different places and the see a team knackered after 65 minutes of a game it does raise a question.

 

Anybody else got a view?

[Lukers1]

Rumour only stuff this.

 

I've heard from two separate sources that different players are a tad unimpressed with the current fitness regime at Latics and consider it to be lacking in professionalism. So while the amount of time spent on fitness is fine, the content is lacking.

 

It might be one to file under "bollocks". It might just be a couple of disaffected inidividuals. But when you hear it from two different places and the see a team knackered after 65 minutes of a game it does raise a question.

 

Anybody else got a view?

 

They do look tired after the magical 60 minutes.

 

Sometimes the fitness condtioner is a load of bollocks, give me a rugby league coach like John Harbin.

 

Johns influence under Dowie showed, we must have had the fittest squad of players we have seen for a while.

 

Not, in a gay way.

[singe]

Rumour only stuff this.

 

I've heard from two separate sources that different players are a tad unimpressed with the current fitness regime at Latics and consider it to be lacking in professionalism. So while the amount of time spent on fitness is fine, the content is lacking.

 

It might be one to file under "bollocks". It might just be a couple of disaffected inidividuals. But when you hear it from two different places and the see a team knackered after 65 minutes of a game it does raise a question.

 

Anybody else got a view?

If you, look at the stats, it is more like after 45 mins!

It is telling, more especially the last 5 mins.

As in another thread, we have the worst record in the league for second half performances.

 

However, it cannot be all down to the fitness coach, the players themselves have a repsonsbility for their own fitness too.

 

But yes, there is a fair bit of evidence all is not quite right.

[slystallone]

I dunno, dont undervalue that side Luckers, some of them were good looking chaps!

 

Harbin came with (relatively) fresh ideas and they seemed to work. It was always a tad cringey arriving at away grounds to see our lads with their yoga matts out in a nice circle and doing some slightly camp pairs stretches, but those allied with the pilates, yoga, swimming, boxing and the strength & conditioning work did appear to reap benifits tobthose players - we were a very fit side back then. Add in the mental strength with Dowie's 'go hard or go home' stuff and the recipe was complete.

 

Now - moving to this season and we've certainly looked off the pace at times, and I certainly agree that we do look to tire at the 65+ minute marker.

Ive also noticed that James Tarkowski comes to the bench like clockwork at 70mins and gets a liquid energy tube...every game at the same time; home & away. They are basically liquid sugar shots - a short energy release. But, whats a lad of 18 doing needing those to get through 90minutes???

 

Butler now appears to be coaching outright; not just purely fitness now. It he who is telling the subs when to warm up & is briefing said subs when they are due to come on.

From what is see, he should be focussing on the strength & conditioning side of things as we do tire en mass three quarters through a game

[Lukers1]

I dunno, dont undervalue that side Luckers, some of them were good looking chaps!

 

Harbin came with (relatively) fresh ideas and they seemed to work. It was always a tad cringey arriving at away grounds to see our lads with their yoga matts out in a nice circle and doing some slightly camp pairs stretches, but those allied with the pilates, yoga, swimming, boxing and the strength & conditioning work did appear to reap benifits tobthose players - we were a very fit side back then. Add in the mental strength with Dowie's 'go hard or go home' stuff and the recipe was complete.

 

Now - moving to this season and we've certainly looked off the pace at times, and I certainly agree that we do look to tire at the 65+ minute marker.

Ive also noticed that James Tarkowski comes to the bench like clockwork at 70mins and gets a liquid energy tube...every game at the same time; home & away. They are basically liquid sugar shots - a short energy release. But, whats a lad of 18 doing needing those to get through 90minutes???

 

Butler now appears to be coaching outright; not just purely fitness now. It he who is telling the subs when to warm up & is briefing said subs when they are due to come on.

From what is see, he should be focussing on the strength & conditioning side of things as we do tire en mass three quarters through a game

 

 

I thought that little Billy Quarmby lad was the fitness coach, he has a track suit and subs jacket with his innitals on it and everything.

[BP1960]

If you, look at the stats, it is more like after 45 mins!

It is telling, more especially the last 5 mins.

As in another thread, we have the worst record in the league for second half performances.

 

However, it cannot be all down to the fitness coach, the players themselves have a repsonsbility for their own fitness too.

 

But yes, there is a fair bit of evidence all is not quite right.

 

I was reading about Brendan Rodgers training methods at Swansea - apparently on the Barcelona style, not a lot of physical work in the gym instead relentless pass and move ball work on the training pitch.

He likened it to learning to play the piano, hard work, but essential to playing in tune.

I also think a good diet helps too, but as singe says players have also to accept responsibility - that includes what happens off the field as well.

Incidentally, I remember the training methods of a manager from the olden days was to have his players running up and down the terraces for hours on end - no ball work, when asked why he replied "'they will all be hungry for the ball on the day of the match"

They were the fittest kick and rush team I ever saw. (funnily enough quite successful).

Edited March 13, 2012 by BP1960

[oafcprozac]

Rumour only stuff this.

 

I've heard from two separate sources that different players are a tad unimpressed with the current fitness regime at Latics and consider it to be lacking in professionalism. So while the amount of time spent on fitness is fine, the content is lacking.

 

It might be one to file under "bollocks". It might just be a couple of disaffected inidividuals. But when you hear it from two different places and the see a team knackered after 65 minutes of a game it does raise a question.

 

Anybody else got a view?

 

Some stats for you:-

 

ALL GAMES LGE AND CUP

 

 

Goals Scored 1st Half: 30

Goals Conceded 1st Half: 23

 

Goals Scored 2nd Half: 26

Goals Conceded 2nd Half: 37

 

 

Goals Scored:

 

Mins

 

1-15: 7

16-30: 9

31-45: 14

 

46-60: 9

61-75: 7

76-90: 10

 

CONCEDED

 

Mins

 

1-15: 5

16-30: 9

31-45: 9

 

46-60: 12

61-75: 13

76-90: 12

 

 

Definitive proof of what I have known for 25+ years, Oldham Athletic are a one half team! In all seriousness, from these stats it's clear we peak just before half-time, then crumble - we are guilty of conceding too many goals straight after half-time. Whilst there seems to be a stamina issue given our record of scoring in the 2nd half, I think we have a major concentration problem too in switching off immediately after the break.

 

There's an obvious lack of stamina, concentration, an attitude of not doing the right thing. We need the right mentality, but most of all what the :censored: does Dickov say to them at HT?

 

"Steady on lads, slow down a bit, Uncle Simon's a bit short this week and can't afford the win bonuses?"

Edited March 13, 2012 by oafcprozac

[BP1960]

Some stats for you:-

 

ALL GAMES LGE AND CUP

 

 

Goals Scored 1st Half: 30

Goals Conceded 1st Half: 23

 

Goals Scored 2nd Half: 26

Goals Conceded 2nd Half: 37

 

 

Goals Scored:

 

Mins

 

1-15: 7

16-30: 9

31-45: 14

 

46-60: 9

61-75: 7

76-90: 10

 

CONCEDED

 

Mins

 

1-15: 5

16-30: 9

31-45: 9

 

46-60: 12

61-75: 13

76-90: 12

 

 

Definitive proof of what I have known for 25+ years, Oldham Athletic are a one half team! In all seriousness, from these stats it's clear we peak just before half-time, then crumble - we are guilty of conceding too many goals straight after half-time. Whilst there seems to be a stamina issue given our record of scoring in the 2nd half, I think we have a major concentration problem too in switching off immediately after the break.

 

There's an obvious lack of stamina, concentration, an attitude of not doing the right thing. We need the right mentality, but most of all what the :censored: does Dickov say to them at HT?

 

"Steady on lads, slow down a bit, Uncle Simon's a bit short this week and can't afford the win bonuses?"

 

Reminds me of one chairman at a very poor club who's team were losing 3-0 with seconds to go in the match, they scored with the last kick to make it 3-1, the chairman then flew into a rage as he had fork out a goal bonus shared by the squad.

Edited March 13, 2012 by BP1960

[Guest]

Talking to the youth team lads, they do a lot of fitness but don't seem to work much on technical or tactical aspects of development.

 

Agree with the Brendon Rodgers comment. They need to be playing more football. I'm guessing its the same with the first team. Practice makes perfect and all that.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Guest

[IceStationLatic]

But weren't there some stats on another thread on here that showed we had one of the best records in the league at coming back from half-time deficits to win games - stats that seem to show PD's HT team-talks have been having a big affect. It's just that we had one of the worst in terms of not bagging the points from a winning position at the break.

 

It's just conceding sloppy goals. Youth and, moreover, confidence, are big factors as well as fitness. Although it's interesting that PD revealed the players had been saying to him that they felt tired at the end of the Yeovil game - why would you say that to your manager?!!!! If you admitted you were tired, wouldn't you think it would put your starting place in doubt?

 

We didn't look tired in the second half at Bramall Lane, albeit against ten men after an hour - we had the power of momentum and belief once it got to 2-2. Even Taylor, who had been vomiting all week and hardly trained, lasted the full 90 minutes and was absolutely superb - although things have caught up with him this week it seems.

 

We are not used to seeing out games, and aren't doing - and this is prompting the finger to be pointed at fitness. The crowd aren't used to the seeing the players grinding out points in the right way. Instead of it being, wow what character to hold on to that lead when the opposition came back - it's, christ, Latics never do it easy do they, and, for example, we need a last-min penalty save to scrape past an inferior Walsall side.

 

We haven't strung a run of more than two league wins in a row together all season I think. It's a trend that's bred mental fragility. The atmosphere at BP is still used to 'typical Latics' and the players must feel it. There's anxiety as soon as it goes from 2-0 to 2-1. Then, when the crowd is providing great backing like the recent home games, the players are making mistakes to re-establish the cycle.

 

It's odd that, despite the good play against Scunny, PD said he felt the players were moping about first half against Yeovil. Why didn't they have the belief, where's the fighting drive? That's worrying.

 

Players, especially young players in L1, will make mistakes. If we were still getting the points, and getting away with the odd mistake, the focus wouldn't be on the errors so much and they'd go start to away. The belief in the team's character to still pull out results would breed confidence in all of the players.

 

 

A factor behind that is that we're not scoring enough at the other end. We have Kuqi, who is perhaps buckling under the strain of knowing the fortunes of the team are residing on him hitting the net whenever he gets a sniff. The more he's missed, the more the pressure is building, especially at home. Kuqi still sets a fine example of work ethic, but the rest of the team will be affected by lack of reliability in front of goal.

 

Morais is doing his best to add to our goalscoring threat. But now we're without KMB, and he was missing one-on-ones in any case. Taylor is preoccupied helping cover for a young midfield and full-back. To top it all off, Simpson is injured - the man who scored at Anfield and whose presence will breed belief, along with the injured captain. We don't have enough leaders.

 

For the sake of this season, we need Reid to hit the ground running and start scoring, and we can't get Simpson and Furman back quick enough.

 

Apologies for the essay!

 

 

[rudemedic]

In individual cases the lack of fitness could be down to the player's physiology. KMB is quick to a level which indicates he has a lot of fast twitch muscle fibres; this means he won't have as many of the other sorts which are necessary for stamina. You don't ask Usain Bolt to run more than 400m.

 

I do wonder about half-time though. Colchester who looked very leggy in the first half came out a good five minutes early and did some warming up, they looked a lot fitter in the second half, 15 minutes is long enough for player's to stiffen up; when we are behind we often come out early as a "punishment" maybe we should come out early more often.

 

I wouldn't worry about Paul Butler giving the subs instructions, if the message comes from the organ grinder it doesn't matter if its the monkey delivering it. He does do somethings- our niggly muscle injuries have been better since he got here, but given our financial situation the money men may not see his necessity and he's an easy £20k off the wage bill.

Edited March 13, 2012 by rudemedic

[bossrocks]

I dunno, dont undervalue that side Luckers, some of them were good looking chaps!

Clint Hill, Chris Armstrong, Clyde Wynjard?!

 

Unrelated but another thing we used to do under Dowie was pass the ball hard. Meant the players had to be more up to it in terms of control but we gave the ball away a lot less.

[BP1960]

In individual cases the lack of fitness could be down to the player's physiology. KMB is quick to a level which indicates he has a lot of fast twitch muscle fibres; this means he won't have as many of the other sorts which are necessary for stamina. You don't ask Usain Bolt to run more than 400m.

 

I do wonder about half-time though. Colchester who looked very leggy in the first half came out a good five minutes early and did some warming up, they looked a lot fitter in the second half, 15 minutes is long enough for player's to stiffen up; when we are behind we often come out early as a "punishment" maybe we should come out early more often.

 

I wouldn't worry about Paul Butler giving the subs instructions, if the message comes from the organ grinder it doesn't matter if its the monkey delivering it. He does do somethings- our niggly muscle injuries have been better since he got here, but given our financial situation the money men may not see his necessity and he's an easy £20k off the wage bill.

 

Why do you reckon David Fairclough was a perpetual sub then ?..he was a completely different build than Bolt.

I agree football is not a sprint, it's about a player pacing himself to last the distance, perhaps some Latics players put too much into 60 minutes so they haven't much left for the final half hour ?

[rudemedic]

Why do you reckon David Fairclough was a perpetual sub then ?..he was a completely different build than Bolt.

I agree football is not a sprint, it's about a player pacing himself to last the distance, perhaps some Latics players put too much into 60 minutes so they haven't much left for the final half hour ?

 

Because he wasn't good enough, I don't have a clue it was sometime before my time, muscle fibre physiology is not correlated with build you can be 5ft 4 or 6ft 5 and be a good sprinter. My point was that KMB tires easily through no fault of his own, no fault of Butler, no fault of any training deficiencies, its the way he is. I wouldn't tell KMB to pace himself any differently I would prepare in such a way that if he gets knackered he is replaced, getting him to have more stamina may prove detrimental to his primary asset, his speed.

[Break The Silence]

In individual cases the lack of fitness could be down to the player's physiology. KMB is quick to a level which indicates he has a lot of fast twitch muscle fibres; this means he won't have as many of the other sorts which are necessary for stamina. You don't ask Usain Bolt to run more than 400m.

 

Ryan Giggs in his prime must've been a robot then

[jimsleftfoot]

I've heard - too much fitness, not enough skills development, from the bottom up.

 

I like the idea of what Brenden Rodgers is doing.

Edited March 13, 2012 by jimsleftfoot

[steveecky]

It may be true about scoring fewer and conceding more in the 2nd half, but what are the stats for all teams. Seems to me that more goals in general are scored in the 2nd half of all games; and what about chances - do we create more in the second half and just don't take them - which is a problem with technique not fitness.

[RobOAFC]

Rumour only stuff this.

 

I've heard from two separate sources that different players are a tad unimpressed with the current fitness regime at Latics and consider it to be lacking in professionalism. So while the amount of time spent on fitness is fine, the content is lacking.

 

It might be one to file under "bollocks". It might just be a couple of disaffected inidividuals. But when you hear it from two different places and the see a team knackered after 65 minutes of a game it does raise a question.

 

Anybody else got a view?

Got a mate who was on trial with the club, and he said the set-up etc wasn't professional, although this was with the U-15's i think. He's with another club in this league atm and says the traning etc is a lot more professional there than it is here.

 

 

I do wonder about half-time though. Colchester who looked very leggy in the first half came out a good five minutes early and did some warming up, they looked a lot fitter in the second half, 15 minutes is long enough for player's to stiffen up; when we are behind we often come out early as a "punishment" maybe we should come out early more often.

I think that Colchester looked leggy in the first half because they had spent hours and hours on a coach and didn't get here up 7.15, so may still of been feeling the effects of that in the first half, as they didn't have much warming up time etc.