Guest Scratch2000uk Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) This is a true point, but if all of our caves where designed and built by the Ministry of Caves I don't think they would have improved much. I don't know what's worse, having a aged ministry of whatever,that would probably be lacking in investment, or having a company run by foreign owners, overcharging us, so they can sell the same product in their native country at a knock down price. Edited April 12, 2013 by Scratch2000uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I don't know what's worse, having a aged ministry of whatever,that would probably be lacking in investment, or having a company run by foreign owners, overcharging us, so they can sell the same product in their native country at a knock down price. If you don't like a company, you can go to another one. If you don't like a Ministry, you are :censored:ed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 If you don't like a company, you can go to another one. If you don't like a Ministry, you are :censored:ed. Price fixing has stumped that notion out i'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Price fixing has stumped that notion out i'm afraid. The only way to fix prices is with the Government behind you. I was a minor cog in the wheel of trying to keep TV prices up when it was £7000 for a 32 inch Plasma, that didn't work out so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 You mean regulators turning a blind eye to it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 You mean regulators turning a blind eye to it? Erm, if regulators are telling firms what price to charge, the Government is fixing the prices... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I have no problems with choice and free markets, I do have a problem with energy companies taking the piss and pushing many thousands of people into fuel poverty, It's not all bad news though, centrica shareholders are doing just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I have no problems with choice and free markets, I do have a problem with energy companies taking the piss and pushing many thousands of people into fuel poverty, It's not all bad news though, centrica shareholders are doing just fine. The energy market is heavily regulated, all the way from production to sale. It is up there with the railways as one of the less well done privatisations, the government still calls the shots, guarantees returns for private companies and gives the market process a bad name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Og Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Seriously, giving her a state funeral is an absolute disgrace. She isn't getting one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeylandLatic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Since when did all socialism = 1984? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 She isn't getting one. No, being processed through the streets of London in a full military parade and having most of the world's heads of states in attendance doesn't sound anything like a state funeral... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Since when did all socialism = 1984? That was fascism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCKeepTheFaith Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) Not complaining as such. Just saying that New Labour wasn't really Labour. If it had been, then maybe some of the renationalisation previously mentioned might have happened (and we'd probably be in an even bigger mess than the one Blair and Brown left us in...). Ah the mess Blair and Brown left us in. Must have had some influence those chaps to not just bring down little old UK but also pretty much every developed economy on the planet. Edited April 13, 2013 by OAFCKeepTheFaith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) They had a part to play by mismanaging the second most important financial centre in the world. However more significantly, when the global recession hit Brown had spent all the money and already put us into a spiral of debt, ensuring we were hit much harder than many other countries. He then compounded that by paying ridiculously over the odds to buy out the banks. If he had somehow won the 2010 election and continued to throw good money after bad we'd now be queuing up with Greece and Cyprus begging the EU for a bail out. Labour bankrupted the country in the 70s, the 2010 election just about stopped them from doing it again. They must never be allowed a third chance. Edited April 13, 2013 by garcon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OAFCKeepTheFaith Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 They had a part to play by mismanaging the second most important financial centre in the world. However more significantly, when the global recession hit Brown had spent all the money and already put us into a spiral of debt, ensuring we were hit much harder than many other countries. He then compounded that by paying ridiculously over the odds to buy out the banks. If he had somehow won the 2010 election and continued to throw good money after bad we'd now be queuing up with Greece and Cyprus begging the EU for a bail out. Labour bankrupted the country in the 70s, the 2010 election just about stopped them from doing it again. They must never be allowed a third chance. Might want to read "Freeing Britain to Compete", a paper commissioned by the then shadow cabinet in 2007, which criticised Labour's over regulation of financial institutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 This isn't fair. I was a kid for the first half of Thatcher's time in office and I didn't get :censored:ed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) I'm a huge FT fan and get the impression he wouldn't want that song used in an argument like this: http://frank-turner.com/contact-faq/ Why don’t you play “Thatcher :censored:ed The Kids” any more? I got bored of the song, and more specifically, I got bored of the tedious political associations that came with it. I won’t be playing it again. Sorry. Feel free to reclaim it yourself. What are your politics? Are you a protest singer? Nope, no protest singing from here. I suppose I could be called a libertarian, though I prefer “classical liberal” as a label, if I have to have one. I am not a socialist. Edited April 13, 2013 by bossrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) That was fascism. Yes and ironically extreme forms of either right or left aren't that far different in practice - look at Stalin and Hitler, supposedly at the opposite ends of the political spectrum and yet had a lot in common in terms of power concentrated at the centre and little freedom for the people. I always felt Orwell was referring to Authoritarian vs Libertarian rather than left vs right (if he was being critical of the extreme right, don't forget he wrote Animal Farm too). I personally view fascism as extreme authoritarianism (regardless of left/right specifically) although acknowledge the theoretical definitions vary and usually associate fascism with the extreme right. I like to consider politics using the grid model below and get fed up of the tired left vs right arguments so often heard these days when its far more nuanced. Unfortunately all our current politicians are so close together in practice we have no real choice. Edited April 13, 2013 by bossrocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Ritchie Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I'm a huge FT fan and get the impression he wouldn't want that song used in an argument like this: http://frank-turner.com/contact-faq/ Why don’t you play “Thatcher :censored:ed The Kids” any more? I got bored of the song, and more specifically, I got bored of the tedious political associations that came with it. I won’t be playing it again. Sorry. Feel free to reclaim it yourself. What are your politics? Are you a protest singer? Nope, no protest singing from here. I suppose I could be called a libertarian, though I prefer “classical liberal” as a label, if I have to have one. I am not a socialist. I'm a huge FT fan and get the impression he wouldn't want that song used in an argument like this: http://frank-turner.com/contact-faq/ Why don’t you play “Thatcher :censored:ed The Kids” any more? I got bored of the song, and more specifically, I got bored of the tedious political associations that came with it. I won’t be playing it again. Sorry. Feel free to reclaim it yourself. What are your politics? Are you a protest singer? Nope, no protest singing from here. I suppose I could be called a libertarian, though I prefer “classical liberal” as a label, if I have to have one. I am not a socialist. I wasn't involved in an argument. I just liked the song. If he doesn't want it I'll have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Yes and ironically extreme forms of either right or left aren't that far different in practice - look at Stalin and Hitler, supposedly at the opposite ends of the political spectrum and yet had a lot in common in terms of power concentrated at the centre and little freedom for the people. I always felt Orwell was referring to Authoritarian vs Libertarian rather than left vs right (if he was being critical of the extreme right, don't forget he wrote Animal Farm too). I personally view fascism as extreme authoritarianism (regardless of left/right specifically) although acknowledge the theoretical definitions vary and usually associate fascism with the extreme right. I like to consider politics using the grid model below and get fed up of the tired left vs right arguments so often heard these days when its far more nuanced. Unfortunately all our current politicians are so close together in practice we have no real choice. Agreed. There's a survey somewhere on the internets that tells you where you are on that graph. Oddly enough I'm in the empty quarter... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I wasn't involved in an argument. I just liked the song. If he doesn't want it I'll have it. By posting it in a thread which has descended into an argument about Thatcher, you involved yourself in it! But I like the song too, can never get enough FT. If you've not already seen him you should check him out live if you get the chance. He's in Manchester on Wednesday and Leeds on Friday. Agreed. There's a survey somewhere on the internets that tells you where you are on that graph. Oddly enough I'm in the empty quarter... Me too. It made me laugh when some of my friends did that questionnaire and ended up in that quarter, going against what they thought their political views were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 If Chris Taylor & Wigan weren't reason enough to support Millwall this weekend........ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9990334/Football-fans-vow-to-confront-anti-Thatcher-demonstrators.html Ricky MFC Mitchell vows, on Twitter, to confront protesters? This is now a code red situation. Millwall fans are weird. They're pretty intimidating after a game on the train from South Bernondsey to London Bridge - if they've lost. They make a sort of moo-ing noise when they're getting off the train, which is weird. Seconds later - hey presto! - they're just another few hundred commuters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossrocks Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Here's that political test if anyone's interested: http://www.politicalcompass.org/test Some of the questions are obvious in terms of whether they're referring to socialism vs capitalism but others are far more subtle. Give it a go, you might be surprised where you end up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 It seems that I'm "Libertarian Right", although mighty close to the centre line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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