BP1960 Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) That's not actually true, if Montano's appeal is unsuccessful and he takes the club to an Employment Tribunal, then the Employment Tribunal is likely to be delayed until the outcome of the criminal case(s) is known. Furthermore, one of Montano's claims could be that by sacking him, the club prejudiced his criminal case(s). Not sure about that rudemedic, for example if someone wilfully thumped another person at work and it was witnessed, that could amount to bona fide instant dismissal for assault before it got to court. Edited January 7, 2014 by BP1960 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Not sure about that rudemedic, for example if someone wilfully thumped another person at work and it was witnessed, that could amount to bona fide instant dismissal for assault before it got to court. True but there are cases (remembering that a lot of employment law is case-based) whereby dismissing someone has been unfair dismissal for prejudicing a criminal case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'd have also thought that when the Jury were retiring to consider their verdict that the Judge would have something to say about coming to their verdict with only the evidence presented by the defence and prosecution and not to be swayed by the actions of his employer, the club in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What is this? Crown :censored:ing Court? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangerinedreams Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Nope, Kangaroo Court complete with Barrack room lawyers! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I'm available for the right price. What I've put on here is just a taster pack. PM me Christiano, amigo.Well in Champ, you are now in for costs awarded based on the poor manner in which you brought the case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 True but there are cases (remembering that a lot of employment law is case-based) whereby dismissing someone has been unfair dismissal for prejudicing a criminal case.Employment tribunals aren't case based except in the very basics of law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 If he loses the case why should Latics have to pay the costs ? Also can we be sure the dismissal doesn't relate to something else ? ....because he won't be able to pay our costs. £1200 per week means he won't be wealthy enough should we wish to recover them from him....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookersstandandy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 I can't see how the PFA/ FL would side with him I was thinking more along the lines of us requiring support of either the PFA/FL in our disrepute stance.....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Employment tribunals aren't case based except in the very basics of law. Except they are, but nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 What is this? Crown :censored:ing Court? Not even a tribunal yet. Imagine if it does get to Crown Court. 30 threads. 5 million posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 (edited) Not even a tribunal yet. Imagine if it does get to Crown Court. 30 threads. 5 million posts.0 threads, 0 posts.High Court or the Court of Appeal on the other hand Edited January 7, 2014 by rudemedic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Well in Champ, you are now in for costs awarded based on the poor manner in which you brought the case Not as cut and dried as you reckon. Mind you, his actual lawyer might do everyone a favour and play the token my-client-is-an-idiot defence before conceding everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Except they are, but nevermind.My superior intellect and wisdom are no match for your inferior professional experience. I therefore withdraw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Not as cut and dried as you reckon. Mind you, his actual lawyer might do everyone a favour and play the token my-client-is-an-idiot defence before conceding everything.But in what? This can only surely be the internal appeal. So maybe Barry sacked him and Neil is hearing the appeal. What lawyers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 My superior intellect and wisdom are no match for your inferior professional experience. I therefore withdraw. Well done you've managed to get the right conclusion despite only getting 1 point out of 3 correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Well done you've managed to get the right conclusion despite only getting 1 point out of 3 correct.I was also at Gillingham and am superior in both length and girth to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I was also at Gillingham and am superior in both length and girth to you. Now you are just willy-waving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 But in what? This can only surely be the internal appeal. So maybe Barry sacked him and Neil is hearing the appeal. What lawyers? Okay then. His PFA rep, Cliff Byrne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 True but there are cases (remembering that a lot of employment law is case-based) whereby dismissing someone has been unfair dismissal for prejudicing a criminal case. I'm no expert, but I can see how Statute would be used in an ET and how Contract law would apply, but I can't see how case-law would be relevant in most cases as the contracts of employment are unlikely to be the same in different cases. If it were something outside the contract, it would be in the statute wouldn't it? And beyond any ET in a higher court, wouldn't the same apply? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'm no expert, but I can see how Statute would be used in an ET and how Contract law would apply, but I can't see how case-law would be relevant in most cases as the contracts of employment are unlikely to be the same in different cases. If it were something outside the contract, it would be in the statute wouldn't it? And beyond any ET in a higher court, wouldn't the same apply? If a Judge decides something in one case, then that is applied to other cases, statute is open to interpretation, Judges interpretation is then allowed to be used in similar circumstances for other cases. Furthermore statute is not going to be all encompassing and so the grey areas are often interpreted by Judges and their decision effectively becomes statute in similar incidents.ETs don't always have Judges on them, but beyond ETs, in Employment Appeals Tribunals, Court of Appeal etc. there is usually Judge or Judges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 If a Judge decides something in one case, then that is applied to other cases, statute is open to interpretation, Judges interpretation is then allowed to be used in similar circumstances for other cases. Furthermore statute is not going to be all encompassing and so the grey areas are often interpreted by Judges and their decision effectively becomes statute in similar incidents. ETs don't always have Judges on them, but beyond ETs, in Employment Appeals Tribunals, Court of Appeal etc. there is usually Judge or Judges. Seriously, where are getting this all from? ETs are heard by a lawyer with speciality in the field. Like lots of lower level criminal cases for that matter. He or she is referred to as the Judge. They will be joined by a lay person from a trade union and from business in some cases, usually where discrimination is an issue. Cases are heard on their merits without reference to previous case history in ETs. Case history from the very small number of cases that have been to higher courts sets a few benchmarks for how the cases go. So a ruling in a higher court or Europe would set a precedent but something in ET doesn't. I'm here all week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Seriously, where are getting this all from? ETs are heard by a lawyer with speciality in the field. Like lots of lower level criminal cases for that matter. He or she is referred to as the Judge. They will be joined by a lay person from a trade union and from business in some cases, usually where discrimination is an issue. Cases are heard on their merits without reference to previous case history in ETs. Case history from the very small number of cases that have been to higher courts sets a few benchmarks for how the cases go. So a ruling in a higher court or Europe would set a precedent but something in ET doesn't. I'm here all week.No only qualified Judges (and their deputies) are referred to as Judges in ET cases, lawyers are known as the chair. Lots and lots of Employment cases go beyond ET, some even start in the High Court, and their decisions are applicable to ET cases, otherwise, ET transcripts wouldn't run into the 20 pages that most do. It is all a series of precendets, a European ruling has precendence over a Supreme Court ruling, which in turn has precendence over a decision made in the House of Lords, which has precendence over a decision made in the Court of Appeal, which has precedence made over a decision made in the High Court and a Employment Appeal Tribunal, and they have precedence made over a decision made in an ET. As to where I get this from, it's how I've been earning money for the past 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosa Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 As to where I get this from, it's how I've been earning money for the past 2 years. I thought you were a doctor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I thought you were a doctor?Physician heal thyself is far too appropriate than I would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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