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Neil Warnocks/Colins Book


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I nipped into town at dinner and popped into WhSmith as there's not alot else to do in Rochdale. I noticed Colin's book on the shelf so had a gander in the index for the bits about Latics. Not alot in a pretty heavy book. 4 pages or so.

 

The first part is when he was manager of Notts County and he mentions that something was said by some West Ham about how they are just in the back and here for the party, or words to that effect. He says it really riled him and before the game he laid into his players and demanded not to end the season with an anti climax and a whimper.

 

It worked and he goes on to mention how the entire ground is celebrating as the news that Wednesday are 2-1 up at Boundary Park and 'the title is won'. There's a big gasp as Oldham equalises before the ground once again erupts as all of Upton Park thinks the game at BP is over with word going round that the final whistle had indeed gone. Warnock congratulates the manager and gives a cheeky consolation about losing that day. Then he tells of the horror that was Upton Park as the ground became distraught at the shock news that the whistle had been for a penalty to Latics, it had been scored. The final whistle had gone and Oldham won the league. :grin::lol: He said it was purely because of him that we won the league and that he's told Big Joe many times in the past that it's all because of him and that no other team bar his Notts County would have been West Ham at Upton Park that day. (having seen wednesday against us that very day, i'm pretty sure they would have)

 

In the next part. He mentions that he didnt have a good time at Oldham. He got on very well with Hardy and Alan had told him he would be getting an extended contract. He says it was the final game of the season away at Grimsby where he realised that wasnt to be true. He says how Jepson scored and he looked at our fans in his words 'going mental' and then to the directors box and not one of them cheered - one infact had his head in his hands. He then told his wife that he figured he wasnt going to be offered a contract.

 

He also mentioned about getting relegated saying it wasnt his fault. That we were already doomed by the time he'd arrived and no one could of saved up from the drop.

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I nipped into town at dinner and popped into WhSmith as there's not alot else to do in Rochdale. I noticed Colin's book on the shelf so had a gander in the index for the bits about Latics. Not alot in a pretty heavy book. 4 pages or so.

 

The first part is when he was manager of Notts County and he mentions that something was said by some West Ham about how they are just in the back and here for the party, or words to that effect. He says it really riled him and before the game he laid into his players and demanded not to end the season with an anti climax and a whimper.

 

It worked and he goes on to mention how the entire ground is celebrating as the news that Wednesday are 2-1 up at Boundary Park and 'the title is won'. There's a big gasp as Oldham equalises before the ground once again erupts as all of Upton Park thinks the game at BP is over with word going round that the final whistle had indeed gone. Warnock congratulates the manager and gives a cheeky consolation about losing that day. Then he tells of the horror that was Upton Park as the ground became distraught at the shock news that the whistle had been for a penalty to Latics, it had been scored. The final whistle had gone and Oldham won the league. :grin::lol: He said it was purely because of him that we won the league and that he's told Big Joe many times in the past that it's all because of him and that no other team bar his Notts County would have been West Ham at Upton Park that day. (having seen wednesday against us that very day, i'm pretty sure they would have)

 

In the next part. He mentions that he didnt have a good time at Oldham. He got on very well with Hardy and Alan had told him he would be getting an extended contract. He says it was the final game of the season away at Grimsby where he realised that wasnt to be true. He says how Jepson scored and he looked at our fans in his words 'going mental' and then to the directors box and not one of them cheered - one infact had his head in his hands. He then told his wife that he figured he wasnt going to be offered a contract.

 

He also mentioned about getting relegated saying it wasnt his fault. That we were already doomed by the time he'd arrived and no one could of saved up from the drop.

 

I always felt that Warnock was harshly treated by Oldham fans and the board. He came to us with a good reputation, taking on a crap squad that looked doomed and he gave us a fighting chance. He then got next to no money, yet we was competing for a play off spot for most of the season. When asked about why we weren’t in a play off spot he pointed out the real reason blaming the board and saying the clubs got absolutely no ambition and he was bang on! Probably why the board didnt like him!

 

Didn’t deserved the sack to be honest.....

 

I think it was his personality and style of football that didn’t go down well.

Edited by oafc0000
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I saw him on Endsleigh league extra not long after he had taken over. I clearly remember him saying "it's not a disaster if this club goes down" I can't type what I thought as this as a family board but 11 years later I think it is safe to say it was a disaster this club going down.

 

From that day one I thought he was a wan... and he hasn't done anything to prove me wrong.

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I always felt that Warnock was harshly treated by Oldham fans and the board. He came to us with a good reputation, taking on a crap squad that looked doomed and he gave us a fighting chance. He then got next to no money, yet we was competing for a play off spot for most of the season. When asked about why we weren’t in a play off spot he pointed out the real reason blaming the board and saying the clubs got absolutely no ambition and he was bang on! Probably why the board didnt like him!

 

Didn’t deserved the sack to be honest.....

 

I think it was his personality and style of football that didn’t go down well.

 

I 100% agree with this. I put him and Ronnie Moore in the same category as ex-latics managers. Both treated harshly becasue of their unattractive tactics and style of play. If you look at both managers records, their pretty good compared to a number of ex-latics managers including some of our favourites. Moore's football was terrible but look what he did for us, got us clear from relegation, got us to 8th in the league and was sacked on the back of it. He brough players like wellens, beckett and warne and was the first to blood players like taylor. I never understood the hatred towards him, hoever i was glad to see him go. Warnock was very similar apart form the fact he didn't dave us from relegation. Imagine if that had happened to Ritchie or Royle, saved from relegation, a steady 8th place the next season and shown the door. I doubt many would of us would be happy with that :angry:

 

I'll get ready for the onslaught of Ronnie haters.

 

P.S. I don't like Ronnie but i do feel he was very harshly treated.

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I 100% agree with this. I put him and Ronnie Moore in the same category as ex-latics managers. Both treated harshly becasue of their unattractive tactics and style of play. If you look at both managers records, their pretty good compared to a number of ex-latics managers including some of our favourites. Moore's football was terrible but look what he did for us, got us clear from relegation, got us to 8th in the league and was sacked on the back of it. He brough players like wellens, beckett and warne and was the first to blood players like taylor. I never understood the hatred towards him, hoever i was glad to see him go. Warnock was very similar apart form the fact he didn't dave us from relegation. Imagine if that had happened to Ritchie or Royle, saved from relegation, a steady 8th place the next season and shown the door. I doubt many would of us would be happy with that :angry:

 

I'll get ready for the onslaught of Ronnie haters.

 

P.S. I don't like Ronnie but i do feel he was very harshly treated.

 

 

I totally agree

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I 100% agree with this. I put him and Ronnie Moore in the same category as ex-latics managers. Both treated harshly becasue of their unattractive tactics and style of play. If you look at both managers records, their pretty good compared to a number of ex-latics managers including some of our favourites. Moore's football was terrible but look what he did for us, got us clear from relegation, got us to 8th in the league and was sacked on the back of it. He brough players like wellens, beckett and warne and was the first to blood players like taylor. I never understood the hatred towards him, hoever i was glad to see him go. Warnock was very similar apart form the fact he didn't dave us from relegation. Imagine if that had happened to Ritchie or Royle, saved from relegation, a steady 8th place the next season and shown the door. I doubt many would of us would be happy with that :angry:

 

I'll get ready for the onslaught of Ronnie haters.

 

P.S. I don't like Ronnie but i do feel he was very harshly treated.

There are many valid points in there. But I still think BT has it spot on about Colin. I still hate Sheffield United even though he's not there any more, just on residual hatred.

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I 100% agree with this. I put him and Ronnie Moore in the same category as ex-latics managers. Both treated harshly becasue of their unattractive tactics and style of play. If you look at both managers records, their pretty good compared to a number of ex-latics managers including some of our favourites. Moore's football was terrible but look what he did for us, got us clear from relegation, got us to 8th in the league and was sacked on the back of it. He brough players like wellens, beckett and warne and was the first to blood players like taylor. I never understood the hatred towards him, hoever i was glad to see him go. Warnock was very similar apart form the fact he didn't dave us from relegation. Imagine if that had happened to Ritchie or Royle, saved from relegation, a steady 8th place the next season and shown the door. I doubt many would of us would be happy with that :angry:

 

I'll get ready for the onslaught of Ronnie haters.

 

P.S. I don't like Ronnie but i do feel he was very harshly treated.

 

No offence, but there were too many silent people who thought that about Ronnie!!! Which allowed the witchhunt to take place. Only a handful of those who thought what you do there, took on the "mob"...and despite what they thought, it wasn't fun! Apart from the Chris M**** ending, that as a Latics fan was probably one of my lowest times supporting this club.....when you say that and it isn't because you want a manager sacked, a Chairman lynched or a board sent packing, it really makes you feel very very frustrated. Ronnie wasn't the best, wasn't the worst. A bit like many managers.....maybe Shez included, however where Ronnie has history of success, Shez has time and youth as a fledgling manager.

 

Regarding Warnock, the real annoyance in "Colin" was his apathy towards the movements being made by the Stop the Rot campaign. I'll never forget the Red Card protest in the Chaddy End, where at 5.20pm he came down the steps from the tunnel, looked over at us and walked off. No recognition for a cause being fought which he fully agreed with from his comments at the time. This was April time, where he probably suspected all wasn't right in the club. He could've gone down fighting with the rest of us against the board who were strangling the club. I agree that he can't be blamed for taking us down. But for me, arguably Sharp can't be either....JWLees singlehandedly have put us where we are. Warnock became a spineless yes-man in my opinion and that's why I think he's a prat. Plus, his contradictory nonsense he spouts week in, week out....like last season, regarding weak teams being played. He blasted the Middlesborough vs Man S.h.i.t.ty game as it apparently hindered their chance of staying up, yet he played a weak team at the Red Scum's because of a vital 6-pointer the following Saturday.....so he didn't give a toss about Chelski's title chances. Far many more reasons to dislike him, than like him unfortunately.

Edited by boundaryblue80
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Simply put: We go to football to be entertained in some way. Ronnie's football is the worst I have ever seen from any team ever*.

 

Warnock's was very poor, but was at least caused by a lack of resources.

 

 

*Including Scottish Football, pub football, kids football, girls football, American football, Australian Rules football, Handball, Volleyball, Korfball, netball, basketball, baseball, rounders, three legged race, sack race, cross Country, tig, that game where you all play with a tennis ball and if someone hits it twice without getting to the wall you beat hell out of them, championship daisy chain making,...

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I liked Colin for his passion. I used to sit in front of the of the away dug out in the main stand and it was so refreshing to see his passion. I think when he said that it wouldn’t have been a disaster for us to go down he was trying to use his head and be realistic. As when the football was being played he kicked every ball with his heart. He was right about Grimsby away though, we were going mental and had a great time, that’s why I could never understand the hatred towards him. I think he had a plan to rebuild the team and get us up. The owners and board had a plan to …… do nothing and so got rid as he was not a yes man.

 

As for getting rid of players, I think that was always down to his employers. The manager never had any control in them days over transfers. They were never backed. And I would certainly not compare him with Ronnie Moore, how many promotions has colin had? To me its like comparing Fergie to Kevin Keegan.

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Two things never cease to amaze me about the 'Colin Era'.

 

1. That Colin had no money to try and save us from relegation. I definitely recall him bringing in a number of players for money, Duxbury and a winger called Matty Rush who retired through injury the following season? I'm sure there were a couple of others. I've always felt (irrationally and with nothing but circumstatial evidence) that he wanted us to get relegated because he felt he could get us promoted from 3 back to 2, but not from 2 back to 1 (justifiably) if he did this he would be seen as a hero and he wanted to beat Basset's promotion record.

 

2. That the board of the time continually get lambasted for not having any ambition - this is the same board that presided over the most successful period in the clubs history - what should they have done? Gambled with the fabric of the club resulting in administration or worse? I'm sure they were all successful business men in their own right, but I doubt any of them were an Abromovic.

 

The biggest mistake they made was selling the club to Moore.

 

I also recall Colin showing his true colours by arranging a self publicising Q&A interview with Deardon on Radio Manchester shortly after his departure from Latics. My abiding memory of him will always be of somebody who courted fame and notoriety and was determined to get these by whatever means and if this meant trampling on little Oldham so his reputation remained intact so be it.

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I 100% agree with this. I put him and Ronnie Moore in the same category as ex-latics managers. Both treated harshly becasue of their unattractive tactics and style of play. If you look at both managers records, their pretty good compared to a number of ex-latics managers including some of our favourites. Moore's football was terrible but look what he did for us, got us clear from relegation, got us to 8th in the league and was sacked on the back of it. He brough players like wellens, beckett and warne and was the first to blood players like taylor. I never understood the hatred towards him, hoever i was glad to see him go. Warnock was very similar apart form the fact he didn't dave us from relegation. Imagine if that had happened to Ritchie or Royle, saved from relegation, a steady 8th place the next season and shown the door. I doubt many would of us would be happy with that :angry:

 

I'll get ready for the onslaught of Ronnie haters.

 

P.S. I don't like Ronnie but i do feel he was very harshly treated.

 

100% agree, Warnock did alright for us, he had no money but brought in some decent players for us and we finished in a decent position in the league in his first full season. The only thing i had a problem with was him swopping Andy Hughes for Craig Dudley, but the only reason he did that was because the board wouldn't give him any money. And as for Moore i never understood the hatred for him, he saved us from relegation and got us in the top ten.

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i'll never forgive him for getting rid of andy hughes and bringing paul reid to the club

 

I've never understood the hatred towards Paul Reid either, have i missed something? He was a decent left winger at our level, he could cross the ball, pass, beat his man, he would get back and defend when he needed to he wasn't the quickest but you can't have everything. And i loved his tackle on Dennis Wise in the cup game against Chelsea :D

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I've never understood the hatred towards Paul Reid either, have i missed something? He was a decent left winger at our level, he could cross the ball, pass, beat his man, he would get back and defend when he needed to he wasn't the quickest but you can't have everything. And i loved his tackle on Dennis Wise in the cup game against Chelsea :D

 

I think it was more his attitude after leaving Boundary park than anthything. Was always giving it the big i am whenever we played Bury. Don't like the man personally but he did OK when he was with us.

 

I do agree that it was crazy selling andy hughes but the big one for me was when he sold Stuart Barlow for 50k to Wigum. I remember the week after we sold him we were playing brentford away and Warnock was over to the away end before the game talking to fans and as i was leaving i shouted "why d'ya sell barlow for only 50k". His response was " i couldn't get any more from him thats why".

 

I didn't know whether he meant couldn't get any more money or any mroe out of him as a player, i think it was money.

 

That's my story for the day.....hope you enjoyed it. :D

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Two things never cease to amaze me about the 'Colin Era'.

 

1. That Colin had no money to try and save us from relegation. I definitely recall him bringing in a number of players for money, Duxbury and a winger called Matty Rush who retired through injury the following season? I'm sure there were a couple of others. I've always felt (irrationally and with nothing but circumstatial evidence) that he wanted us to get relegated because he felt he could get us promoted from 3 back to 2, but not from 2 back to 1 (justifiably) if he did this he would be seen as a hero and he wanted to beat Basset's promotion record.

 

2. That the board of the time continually get lambasted for not having any ambition - this is the same board that presided over the most successful period in the clubs history - what should they have done? Gambled with the fabric of the club resulting in administration or worse? I'm sure they were all successful business men in their own right, but I doubt any of them were an Abromovic.

 

The biggest mistake they made was selling the club to Moore.

 

I also recall Colin showing his true colours by arranging a self publicising Q&A interview with Deardon on Radio Manchester shortly after his departure from Latics. My abiding memory of him will always be of somebody who courted fame and notoriety and was determined to get these by whatever means and if this meant trampling on little Oldham so his reputation remained intact so be it.

 

If I remember rightly we sold the highly rated Beresford to Huddersfield and Duxbury came the other way.

 

We were successful yes, but despite us getting to the FA Cup Semi Final and despite the fact we had parachute payments (none of which were mentioned when they said we had to cut the team down, then when the parachute payments stopped they then told us it was an excuse to do more team cutting) we never invested any sort of money to get us back into the Premiership.

 

Stott was too bothered playing the politician to be bothered with running the club or trying to find new investment. Lees had a couldn’t care less attitude and they weren’t bothered with how the club was doing. I reckon that if Moore didn’t buy the club, we would have been in League 2 or Division 3 by the end of 2001/2002. No Ground, no investment, no club.

 

Moore may have actually been the lesser of two evils.

Edited by jimsleftfoot
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If I remember rightly we sold the highly rated Beresford to Huddersfield and Duxbury came the other way.

 

We were successful yes, but despite us getting to the FA Cup Semi Final and despite the fact we had parachute payments (none of which were mentioned when they said we had to cut the team down, then when the parachute payments stopped they then told us it was an excuse to do more team cutting) we never invested any sort of money to get us back into the Premiership.

 

Stott was too bothered playing the politician to be bothered with running the club or trying to find new investment. Lees had a couldn’t care less attitude and they weren’t bothered with how the club was doing. I reckon that if Moore didn’t buy the club, we would have been in League 2 or Division 3 by the end of 2001/2002. No Ground, no investment, no club.

 

Moore may have actually been the lesser of two evils.

 

You actually think that a board of directors who presided over the club appointing Joe Royle, reaching a Wembley cup final for the only time in the clubs history, reaching two FA cup semi finals, achieving top flight status for the first time in almost 70 years, competing with the biggest clubs in the land for 3 years, staying loyal to the club for a number of years then moving aside when they felt somebody was in a better position to move the club forward are closer to the devil than Chris Moore whose 2 year reign at the club left us almost with nothing? That beggars belief.

 

Stott and co were far from perfect, but worse than Moore? Definitely not.

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If I remember rightly we sold the highly rated Beresford to Huddersfield and Duxbury came the other way.

 

We were successful yes, but despite us getting to the FA Cup Semi Final and despite the fact we had parachute payments (none of which were mentioned when they said we had to cut the team down, then when the parachute payments stopped they then told us it was an excuse to do more team cutting) we never invested any sort of money to get us back into the Premiership.

 

Stott was too bothered playing the politician to be bothered with running the club or trying to find new investment. Lees had a couldn’t care less attitude and they weren’t bothered with how the club was doing. I reckon that if Moore didn’t buy the club, we would have been in League 2 or Division 3 by the end of 2001/2002. No Ground, no investment, no club.

 

Moore may have actually been the lesser of two evils.

 

 

A few crossed wires here re: Warnock's era

 

He let Andy Hughes go out on loan to Notts County, then Allardyce made the deal permanent for about £100k in Early 1998. Craig Dudley was signed whilst injured on deadline day '99 by Andy Ritchie

 

Stuart Barlow left for peanuts in March 1998 because he was out of contract that summer and the club could not afford/had no bloody intention of renewing a fairly lucrative deal. Barlow was replaced by Adrain Littlejohn after we swapped him for Phil Starbuck!!!!

 

Matthew Rush was signed in March 1997 from Norwich for £165,000 and played 18 games the crock that he was.

 

David Beresford was sold to Huddersfield in a player plus Cash deal that saw us get Paul Reid and us pay £100,000 to the Terriers.

 

Lee Duxbury arrived in March 1997 too for £350,000 from Bradford

 

Nick Henry went to Sheffield United in March 1997 we got £500,000 and the useless donkey that was Doug Hodgson

 

He also signed a grossly overweight Ronnie Jepson, Lee Sinnott, the legend that was Ironside.

 

He signed Mike Pollitt and Danny Boxall on loan as well as Neil Thompson.

 

 

Oh and Mark Foran!

 

In my opinion the straw that broke the club's back in 96/97 was selling Gunnar Halle to Leeds. We had endured an horrendous start but picked up in early October with a run of only 3 defeats in 15 League games and although the decent form continued for a month or so after Gunnar's departure the writing may have been on the wall for Graeme Sharp. Warnock's biggest mistake was his failure despite splashing a fair bit of cash to bring in another striker Super Sean had been in and out all season, Banger was crap and Ormondroyd had done ok but lets face it he was crap too! So the goalscoring burden was left to Stuart Barlow and he just didn't get the service or score enough goals. (Did when he went to Wigan!) Warnock panicked, ripped the heart out of the team before deadline day and we were left with a team of strangers! Sound familiar? :naughty:

The season after, we were business like at home but embarassing away, as Warnock's tactic seemed to be "lets play for a 0-0", once the injuries bit and the home form stuttered not to mention Barlow being sold, the wheels well and truly fell off. We were 3rd at the beginning of February and in the end struggled to fifnish in lower mid-table.

Edited by oafcprozac
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I liked Colin for his passion. I used to sit in front of the of the away dug out in the main stand and it was so refreshing to see his passion. I think when he said that it wouldn’t have been a disaster for us to go down he was trying to use his head and be realistic. As when the football was being played he kicked every ball with his heart. He was right about Grimsby away though, we were going mental and had a great time, that’s why I could never understand the hatred towards him. I think he had a plan to rebuild the team and get us up. The owners and board had a plan to …… do nothing and so got rid as he was not a yes man.

 

As for getting rid of players, I think that was always down to his employers. The manager never had any control in them days over transfers. They were never backed. And I would certainly not compare him with Ronnie Moore, how many promotions has colin had? To me its like comparing Fergie to Kevin Keegan.

 

Simply put: We go to football to be entertained in some way. Ronnie's football is the worst I have ever seen from any team ever*.

 

 

Even you call him Colin...as in...Colin W***er....why?

 

Of course he was a yes man...he had ample opportunity to join Stop The Rot or even from his position, to turn fans heavily against the board. No fans, no club.....it would've forced the club into either keeping him and backing him, or selling the club and leaving. To be honest, we've only got his word that he wanted a contract and thought he was going to get one. I never once believe he wanted to stay.

 

As for comparing Moore and Warnock, I'd love to see Warnock try and do for a club what Moore did at Rotherham with the resources he had there. Makes me laugh when people claim Moore played so much "boring" football....blinded by bu****** that it was all long ball and when it was, players last season even admitted it wasn't under Moore's instructions, it was coz we had players "not good enough" (that's a quote from Wellens) clearly indicating Branston and his hoofs coz he was dire....could name numerous games where we destroyed teams and not a hoof in sight...Bradford away for one.... Plenty of false memories engrained forever in the haters! Oh and if winning is boring, then something is wrong with you!

Edited by boundaryblue80
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Even you call him Colin...as in...Colin W***er....why?

 

Of course he was a yes man...he had ample opportunity to join Stop The Rot or even from his position, to turn fans heavily against the board. No fans, no club.....it would've forced the club into either keeping him and backing him, or selling the club and leaving. To be honest, we've only got his word that he wanted a contract and thought he was going to get one. I never once believe he wanted to stay.

Is this the first ever instance of a fan disliking a manager because he didn't sack the board?

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You actually think that a board of directors who presided over the club appointing Joe Royle, reaching a Wembley cup final for the only time in the clubs history, reaching two FA cup semi finals, achieving top flight status for the first time in almost 70 years, competing with the biggest clubs in the land for 3 years, staying loyal to the club for a number of years then moving aside when they felt somebody was in a better position to move the club forward are closer to the devil than Chris Moore whose 2 year reign at the club left us almost with nothing? That beggars belief.

 

Stott and co were far from perfect, but worse than Moore? Definitely not.

 

Can I point a few things out here....

 

First of all, JWLees didn't sell the club to Chris M****....they sold it to David Brierley and friends for (I think) either a penny or a pound. Second of all, from the mouths of workers at JWLees, the only care they took at times was asking the workers on a Monday morning how we'd done at the weekend. Finally, as said, all the money from top flight status, cup runs, parachute payments etc. all pocketed by JWLees, nothing fed back into the club. How people are so blind to defend them, is beyond me....IN MY OPINION, they've raped and pillaged our football club and left it for dead. They're no different to Chris M**** in any way at all....everyone knows Royle did what he did on absolutely nothing....no thanks to JWLees at all so let's not be blinded with your list of what we acheived....it certainly wasn't thanks to JWL!!!

Edited by boundaryblue80
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Can I point a few things out here....

 

First of all, JWLees didn't sell the club to Chris M****....they sold it to David Brierley and friends for (I think) either a penny or a pound. Second of all, from the mouths of workers at JWLees, the only care they took at times was asking the workers on a Monday morning how we'd done at the weekend. Finally, as said, all the money from top flight status, cup runs, parachute payments etc. all pocketed by JWLees, nothing fed back into the club. How people are so blind to defend them, is beyond me....they've raped and pillaged our football club and left it for dead. They're no different to Chris M**** in any way at all....everyone knows Royle did what he did on absolutely nothing....no thanks to JWLees at all so let's not be blinded with your list of what we acheived....it certainly wasn't thanks to JWL!!!

But the beer tastes so good.

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Is this the first ever instance of a fan disliking a manager because he didn't sack the board?

 

Erm...no, fans get the board sacked...just if Warnock was truly wanting to stay with us and sort it out, he would've been alongside us and telling us how a) he wanted a new contract, b.) the board either had to go or support him as he's going nowhere unless shoved....

 

By the time the supposed "shoving" happened, it was too late....he was gone and nothing could be changed. It might not have done much, but he had a chance to try. Simply put, he didn't want to....he was a spineless coward that looked at the STR protest and turned his back on it. He never intended staying!

Edited by boundaryblue80
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