EASTLEY

Firstly I don't think we have to remain mediocre forever, we can get out of this spiral, I just don't think that our owners have the financial clout to do it, but I do think they have done a decent enough job to keep the club afloat with a few highlights along the way. With a bit of luck we couldve found ourselves in the championship though I think it may have been a one hit wonder with our current(or even at the time)financial clout. To sustain a challenge we would have needed new investment IMO The last statement I made was in ref to the fact that in isolation the UK market would not have collapsed due to the amount of debt it was currently holding if the lending spike(downwards) hadn't occurred. Repossessions were still at a relatively low level and HBOS(The biggest mortgage lender in the uk at the time I believe) was seen to be working well. It would not have collapsed had the events in the US and the subsequent run on the value of HBOS share occurred. This run occured because the market could not/would not distinguish between the US sub prime mortgages and the mortgages with more than 3*income or more than 90% lending held in the UK. You can argue about the morality of lending high multiples of income but until the problems overseas HBOS and its like were not in danger of collapsing and mortgages/debts in general were being repaid. I do agree though that you can get to debt saturation point where you can no longer meet your requirements, I just think the UK was someway short of that in normal terms. However the events in the US completely changed the scenario and rules to the game being played up to that point. I completely agree with your view on the recession following the credit crunch being inevitable and the bailout. I wish it wasn't the case but it is....... Anyway back on track I don't want to be mediocre(I don't even think we are that at the mo)I just don't know where the investment can come from to allow BP to be regenerated and the club to get out of its current spirral at the moment. I wish I had answers to this piece, I just don't blame the TTA for all that has gone wrong

It may have been coming as may global warming when we had an ice age but no-one foresaw that it was imminent and no-one saw the scale of the "Toxic Debt" in the US. The system in the UK would not have fallen over at that moment if it wasn't for the sub-prime mortagages in the US. BTW Borrowing is fine if you can repay even if it takes 50 years to do so. The issue starts when repayments stop. The amount of repossesions increased after the crunch hit because availability of money was/is restricted(pre fiscal stimulus). This issue was caused in the sudden upward spike in the cost of borrowing due to the remaining lenders' suspicion of the ability of institutions they had trusted previously ability to repay. The UK market was not ready to go and the recession was brought forward due to events overseas mystic megs. Unless you had a view of the US sub prime market you would not have foreseen the credit crunch. The recession that has followed is another matter

The credit crunch or the recession?

Lehmans and Behr(?) Sterns didn't. Apparently the cost of keeping the Lookers standing/open was prohibitive. They have 3 stands that are not full and weren't before it was knocked down!

I agree with that but if the overall cedit crunch hadn't happened then I have a feeling the TTA may have put more of their own/investors money into the redevelopment of BP. But then the land price wouldn't have fallen anyway

I accept a few analysts saw the debt issue mounting, however my understanding only is that it was the way the US regulators(SARBOX anyone) then changed the way that debts(toxic assets was the new term)could be valued causing financial institutions to loose billions off their value due to stockmarket panic. This badly injured(killed is to strong a word as thanks to external funding they continue to operate)the financial markets, froze liquidity and cash lending meaning that credit that had been in place for many years was removed in an instant causing viable buisnesses to fail. My two penneth is that we had a team that had a chance to succeed but failed due to a number of reasons including player power, bad loan decisions and maybe a reduction in available cash. How important does that £600k for Porter seem now! I personally don't blame the TTA just think that they are reducing investments/moving the club because the siz of their own fortunes have decreased and they need to balance what they can afford with keeping the club running at the moment. However I think the decline this year has been worse than they forecast hence the need to bring in Guy and the PR company to help the club to a more even keel. I do think DP's tactics are too cautious at the mo, the only time(admittedly against 10 men)that we had adventure and overlapping fullbacks was Colchester and that was good. The rest has been overly cautious and devoid of attacking flair IMO. However this doesn't mean it can't get better nor does it mean DP isn't a good manager, he just needs to move us forward and lastly it does sadden me that people with vicious tongues and short memories think they can have a pop at the suitability to run the club of the guys who history says kept the club going. Thats where I am(that last comment is not aimed at you personally btw to clarify, it is generic)

Do you know the extent of the TTA's finances then? Do you know how said finances were affected by the recession/credit crunch? And for the muppet who says didn't you spot the recession coming, does he not realise that it caught the majority of Capitalist economies cold as it was induced by regulation that led to an almost overnight drying up of credit availability or is that the TTA's fault to. Yes they have made mistakes, and yes the manager isn't currently setting the world alight with his tactics, however to blame the tta for all our ills. BTW if they did leave it may be easier to save the club because the debts and running costs are signifcantly lower than they were before hence we are on a far better financial footing than we were before. Lastly I don't think getting it right on the pitch in recent years has helped Portsmouth(more trouble to come), Leeds, Southampton(how many years in the Prem), Coventry

Flahavan is a quality keeper at this level. We would do well to keep him, IMO he is stronger than both Fleming and Brill in all aspects Hopefully we will get to keep him for the season, one of DPs better signings

Stafford Services Now on my way

We looked so much stronger though when the full backs started to overlap particularly Holdsworth. Showed what he can do as an attacking force!

I am by no means a Colbeck fan but thought he played well today. Highlights: Stopped a certain goal in the first couple of mins Hit a great shot from the edge of the area and fizzed in a few superb crosses. One towards the end of the game was as good as anything that will be seen in the premier league, fizzing between the centre half and keeper on the edge of the 6 yard box. The keeper and centre half were blowing with relief after that! If he continues in that vain then maybe he has a chance, if not then maybe it was a good blip today, either way he was v close to mom from the chronicle suite today!

Is there any update on the "good news just around the corner" that has been quoted by Wardle and Harry(DGS)? Or have I missed it? Or is there something to improve the mood coming shortly?

Done

x4

Sounds like a storm in a teacup to me, some bloke in the stand said something derogatory to another and the other bloke told him in no uncertain terms what he thought of it and to back it up. It just happens that the bloke that some smart arse said something to was Simon Corney. Fair play to him, if the bloke had something to say he should have addressed Simon Corney through the proper channels and then maybe would have got a reasonable answer. Just because somebody works for/owns a football club doesn't mean that he is now a target who has to take a tirade of abuse without answering back in a manner that the person spouting the abuse could clearly understand

Me too, I he is an approachable executive that has made many telling contributions to past succeses as well as the survival of this club. Could you imagine David Gill responding to individual fans with the professional yet personal touch that Alan does? A true Latics stalwart

You are right about Crossley, maybe people can see what he gave us now ;-), playing even when injured Brill isn't the best I have seen, but better than Blayney, Budtz etc Supple was good though got abuse to for making one mistake........., I think we need Fon Williams..........

Lance Cronin?

I am - ;-) it was a great ball in

I'm not disagreeing that he has made a number of errors am just trying to balance some of the things said on here. In the last few weeks(post Hartlepool)he has come on a lot and as we are not likely to be getting a new keeper, want that to continue. The ironic cheering when he made a great take from a cross on the penalty spot under pressure from two forwards in the 1st half beggared belief. It was like people wanted him to drop it to carry on having a pop. I think they call it "mob rule"

Cmon Jacko you know better than that - the third he was exposed on. 2nd he had a mare agreed. Brill is also young for a keeper, did you see Friedel today or do you remember James at Watford. All have made high profile mistakes yet they weren't left to rot on the scrap heap. And before you go on about the sympathy bloke we are all professionals in our own spheres yet there aren't many sacked for making a handful of mistakes. He came for crosses today and took them well, he made 1 rick after a couple at the start of the season thats all.

I was exactly in line with the cross for the first - he was not at the time in my opinion at fault for it, maybe tonight on the tv will prove me wrong though so i'll wait until i see it

This I do agree with, I don't know whether its down to the injury situation but we don't get link play around the box quickly enough from midfield. We are also missing a fit Chris Taylor and Smalley's pace as we seem to be building slowly allowing the opposition to get their shape when they loose posession. We don't look dangerous enough and to be fair didn't look confident of shooting when we had the opportunity

Sorry disgaree completely the ball was switched at height from one channel to the back post, it had height and wasn't flat across the 6 yard box. Brill was in my humble opinion at fault with the 2nd obivously but didn't do much else wrong today

I'm with you here - there was no-one marking at the back post on the header 2nd Brill had a mare Reuben and Gregan were strong today - are people fishing having a go at him or perhaps there are a few on here who don't know there arse from their elbow to put it bluntly