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underdog

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    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted

    3 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

    Facebook live stream? 

    I honestly don't know Dave if we have the set up.

     

    Of late of web/techno/comms chap has been doing the tweeting and photos out right away. Tomorrow he is chairing the meeting. I will certainly take some photos during the meeting and I am sure it will probably be meet doing the old fashion way of meeting notes.

     

    I am sure many fans will post/twitter during the meeting

     

    Thanks

    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted · Edited by underdog

    Dear all

     

    We are now "sold out" with regards to tickets for tomorrow's event....well done and thanks

     

    We are asking if anyone has booked tickets and are unable to attend now,  that you cancel your tickets so others can attend

     

    To do this, please go back into the Eventbrite site and cancel

     

    Thanks and see you all tomorrow

     

     

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 2

    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted

    1 hour ago, ghostofcecere said:

    I hope a replacement can be appointed quickly, the Trust has real momentum at the moment and it needs capitalising on. Also I feel a Trust figurehead is required during negotiations over the purchase from Brassbank.

    Hello Ghost

     

    Trust have advised owner of the change and who is the contact in the meantime. Due process will follow with regards to those nominations

     

    Trust have varied skill set and with regards to the fan led buyout, we have a nominated person who will be the contact for this venture 

     

    Thanks

    • Thanks 1

    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, kowenicki'smoustache said:

    The current situation with the owner has really brought it home to me what Latics have meant to me over the years. I saw my first game in 1972. I was a season ticket holder for some years before departing for London in 1983 (I contrived to miss virtually all of the good times!). I started going with my Dad. He passed away 18 months ago and I'm sure that I can here him spinning in his urn!

     

    My job as a publican has meant that opportunities to watch games have been very few and far between. I probably make 1 or 2 home games and 4 or 5 away games each year.

     

    It seems to me that now is the time to choose whether we want a club or not. If we do then this fella has to go. We've had some bad 'uns before, but this bloke's setting new standards.

     

    Anyway, for once in my life I'm going get of my ample backside and make an effort to contribute to the cause. I have booked a train ticket and hotel, and I'm going to attend. I look forward to meeting you all and to finding a constructive and positive way forward...

    Excellent... we all do what we can, we all support in many, many ways

     

    Please make yourself know. I will be there as many other Trust people.

     

     

    Board of Directors (Non-Executive) Applications

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted · Edited by underdog

    34 minutes ago, OAFC1958 South said:

    Just registered on here - been a supporter for 40 years - through good and bad times but now seems the lowest period hence why I registered...I am determined not to give up.

     

    I read this Forum daily and see conflicting comments, emotions, hope, despair, ideas .. all understandable apart from some that become abusive. 

     

    In my Business experience, there are 2 main things that will impact Mr Lemsagam … 1) Financially ( revenue) and 2) limited/no support (fans) … both intrinsically linked.

     

    We will be stronger and successful if our actions are coordinated - through the Trust in my opinion. They were set-up to represent the Fans so lets give them all the support we can.

     

    Thanks to you  'underdog' ( sorry is it Diane ? ) and all your colleagues - know it's tough but Keep the Faith...let's all Keep the Faith 

    welcome on board...

     

    I am Tracy but I answer to most names..hahah

     

    scratch that...I have just seen how many new members who have joined on line and I will have a busy day doing some admin...you swines...hahah

     

     

    Board of Directors (Non-Executive) Applications

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted

    I cannot stress how we, Trust directors, appreciate  ALL your support.

     

    Sometimes I say why the bloody hell do I bother, chuck the towel in and say "feck it"....then our fans, you yes you...right there reading this post do something to amaze me

     

    Owners come and go, they are custodians of our club for a micro-moment in time....we are the true constant, the fans and through the ages we have ensured a club history of over 100 years.

     

    oh dear the vino is talking.

     

    Cheers everyone

    • Like 2

    Board of Directors (Non-Executive) Applications

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted · Edited by underdog

    2 hours ago, Dave_Og said:

    My non-application:

     

    Dear Mr Lemsagam

     

    I note with interest your desire to recruit Non-executive Directors as “Fans’ Representatives” and welcome the initiative.  I believe I have a number of relevant qualifications and attributes which would mean that I could make a positive contribution to the role including:

     

    A long personal history as an Oldham supporter going back more than 50 years and via my father and grandfather to the founding of the club in 1895.

    • Experience with fans organisations including OASIS (Oldham Athletic Supporters In the South) and Secure Athletic’s Future Existence (SAFE) which could be thought of as a forerunner of the current Supporters’ Trust (Oldham Athletic Supporters Foundation Limited, “the Trust”).

       

    • A long career in the financial services industry with a particular focus on governance, compliance and company secretarial activity including at senior management and board level.

     

    However, I cannot apply for the following reasons:

     

    • The position does not have a clear description of responsibilities (to the best of my knowledge) so it is impossible to judge its attractiveness and feasibility.

       

    • There already exists a mechanism for engaging with supporters via the Trust.  It is unclear why this avenue is not being pursued; a position which is particularly puzzling given the Trusts’ shareholding in Oldham Athletic (2004) Association Football Club (“OAAFC”).

       

    • The loose use of language in the notification of the position is concerning and does not suggest full awareness of EFL requirements.  The words “Fit & Proper Test” do not appear in the EFL Rules; I assume the reference is to the Owners and Directors Test.

       

    • I could not possibly meet the criteria to attend all home and away matches; very few people could do so and I would suggest that most of those who could may be those with fewer responsibilities and commensurately limited experience.

       

    • In my experience the prime responsibilities of Non-Executive Directors are to have confidence of good and appropriate corporate governance and to be in a position to critically assess corporate strategy.

       

      • It seems clear that at present the corporate governance of OAAFC does not meet what any reasonable person would consider to be best practice.  To have a board with a single director well over a year since you acquired control seems to me to be unacceptable.

         

      • The position appears to be exclusively related to being the fans’ representative.  As Directors have wider responsibilities than such specific considerations it is far from clear to me that the person(s) being sought actually need to have the status of Director (Non-Executive not being a specific role in relevant Company Law).

      • The above does not suggest that any individual who takes up this position will have the ability/status to assess or influence wider strategic issues

    • Any individual taking this role is likely to experience significant conflicts of interest as has (in reality or perception,  it really doesn’t matter) occurred in the past.  As a Director they must be privy to information which is not (and should not) be in the public domain and it will be very challenging for them personally to manage that conflict of interest as doubtless the fans they are representing would expect significant and frequent disclosure.

     

    As you rightly say there is a serious disconnect between you as the owner of the club and its supporters.  My conclusion is that this is not an appropriate way to resolve that situation for the following reasons:

     

    • There is an atmosphere of suspicion around the club regarding both your motives for becoming involved in the club and your style of management.  Whether such suspicions are well founded I have no knowledge and it is of very limited relevance.  Until such doubts are assuaged by specific actions they are only likely to fester and grow.  For the reasons outlined above, particularly in respect of the actual or perceived conflict of interest, the appointment of any person to this role is unlikely to resolve that position.

       

    • All indications are that there is a very limited and potentially inadequate management structure in place at OAAFC.  Making this appointment cannot go any way to solving that situation.

       

    • Rightly or wrongly there is a belief that you as owner and your associates are heavily involved in player recruitment, retention and team selection.  While we as fans are clearly not fully aware of the truth or otherwise of such perceptions the weight of evidence, generally in the form of former employees making veiled, or more recently more explicit, suggestions that this is the case are a very significant factor in the disconnect.  Again, making this appointment cannot on its own go any way to solving that situation.

     

    I hope that the points above may cause you to consider whether this is a logical approach to resolving the difficult current situation.  Should that be the case I have the following suggestions which I believe are more likely to bear fruit should you genuinely wish to solve this positon and move the club forward positively.  Given the investment and commitment that you have made I cannot conceive that would not be your wish.

     

    • Engage with the Trust; their role already encompasses being fans’ representatives.  It is my understanding that Trust membership has grown recently and I would imagine it would grow substantially if a positive relationship between it and you as owner was in place.  That would negate any need for a Non-Executive Director(s).

       

    • Provide as much clarity as possible on the following issues (this being a non-exclusive list)

       

      • The nature of your current and planned future relationship with the landowners.

         

      • The extent to which any future manager will have autonomy over player and playing matters.  If the many rumours on this subject are reflective of the truth it is hard to imagine many credible candidates wishing to become first team manager.  This would naturally include some information regarding the nature and extent of the role of Mohammed Lemsagam at OAAFC.

         

      • The current state of OAAFC’s finances and your ability to ensure that the club meets its obligations.  Stories in the press regarding the alleged non-payment of minor commitments suggest, at best, very poor administration and, at worst, a very parlous financial position.

         

      • Some insight into how, if at all, player transactions may benefit the agency with which you were formerly associated

         

      • Your plans for the future including any potential acquisition of the land and buildings, in particular specific detail regarding the North Stand given its capacity to provide income from non-football activities.

         

      • The truth or otherwise of rumours that either or both of the Main Stand and the Chadderton End require very substantial remedial work.

         

    If you are not able to provide clarity on most, if not all, of these matters which are rightly causing great concern to the supporters there seems minimal prospect of the current disconnect being resolved.

     

    These comments are made with the best of intentions from a longstanding supporter.  The club was there long before I was and it is my very strong desire that it continues to exist and thrive long after I am gone.  The current situation is parlous.  On the playing side the club is at its lowest ebb for over 45 years, the ground is decrepit, the pitch is woefully sub-standard etc.   I very much hope that you are in a position to turn the club in a more positive direction and you have rightly identified that you need the supporters, current and lapsed, on side to have a chance of doing so.  I hope you can see that some or all of the steps suggested above may help in achieving that.

     

     

     

    wow....I am in awe and doth my cap

    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted

    3 hours ago, lookersstandandy said:

     

    Thanks Tracy.

     

    As an exiled supporter [but Trust member] based in the South, I won't be able to attend in person. I would encourage anyone who can attend to do so. We need to be united and the Trust - whilst not perfect - is the best and only way we can possibly influence change.

     

    I therefore thought it worthwhile posting on here - for you and @Andy b / everyone else reading - to see what I would raise under the outlined agenda points, if I were able to attend.

     

    My concerns - What are they? And what do I want to see/hear from the Owner?

     

    1. As much as I deplore our owner interfering in team selection and signing players above the manager/coaches heads, I feel this is for the owner and his chosen management/coaching team to address/agree a way forward that they collectively understand/accept. However, does our owner accept that such behaviour has been to the detriment of the team, his club and his relationship with former employees & its supporters. Will he therefore accept he has no alternative but to address/change his behaviour?

     

    2. I am led to believe, despite our owners protestations, that there exists a growing/large number of creditors, which could include; The Landlords; Food/Drink Suppliers; Pitch Maintenance Companies; Energy Suppliers; Coach Companies, with bailiffs turning up at the club to repossess equipment. This follows earlier season stories of wages being paid late and Pension contributions for employees not being made. As a paying customer of his Limited company, I find this wholly unacceptable and an embarrassment. I consider the respectable treatment of employees/suppliers as a hygiene factor. Does he understand his responsibilities and severity of not carrying out his obligations?

     

    3. Moreover, does he accept that any of these creditors could seek legal means from which to recover money owed, which could result in a winding up order? I have grave concerns - that if he can't afford the gas bill - HMRC will come knocking very soon, which could have much more serious consequences. Can he provide us with any assurances that he has provided the money to pay his Ltd company's Tax obligations?

     

    4. We are obviously now aware - regardless of his proclamations about investing millions / £200k a month - that he is not an especially wealthy man. We are also led to believe that we are operating on a smaller budget than prior to his time. Partially influenced by being in a lower division. We are yet to see any company accounts posted that would tell us more about the finances of the club. We are however aware that OAFC2004 Ltd makes a loss every year. In normal Limited company circumstances, this is not sustainable. Is he covering that loss and writing it off every year until he can make it profitable? i.e Will he not saddle OAFC2004 Ltd with Director loans that it has to pay back if/when hes moves on?

     

    5. The recent invitation from the club for supporters to put themselves forward as NEDs is tacit proof he accepts/understands there is discontent amongst the supporter base. In an attempt to address this/build bridges, will he answer - some longstanding - questions;

     

    - What was/is his motivation for owning our football club? More specifically, why would a Moroccan football agent living in Dubai buy a struggling League One football club that didn’t own its land/ground, the only stand that has potential to earn non match day revenue and - if you take him at his word - move his family to a very cold & wet part of Northern Europe?

     

    - Does he accept that the suspicion would be to farm his football agency [still managed by his other brother Omar] players through the club with his primary motivation being profit for his Agency, not success for Oldham Athletic. We would all be less concerned if both went in hand in hand. Does he accept his forays into the foreign player market have to date been largely unsuccessful? Is this making him question/assess his motives?

     

    - Is it true his brother Mohamed has failed the FPP test on more than one occasion? In order to put our minds at rest that this isn't because of nefarious reasons, will he explain why?

     

    - Does he accept that no Chief Exec, no effective Board of Directors [that aren't just fans] and therefore no engagement with the Trust, our Trust, our only formal representation with the club, one that owns 3% share, gives off the impression there is no structure and more importantly no Plan*.

     

    *A Plan could/should include initiatives such as;

    - Commit a budget toward the youth set up by increasing number/quality of coaches, extended the scouting network to find more 'domestic' kids/pick them up when discarded from bigger/wealthier clubs, which was designed to increase the number of 'domestic' players we can blood into the 1st team squad each year.

    - Find a way to lease/rent the top floor of the Joe Royle Stand & using it for the benefit of supporters and to make a profit from which to add to club funds.

    - Work closely with OACT and do some low cost advertising & hold events locally to encourage the populous of Oldham/Tameside to attend.

    - Stability - assuming competence - in management appointments & recruitment (players with promise on 2/3 year contracts).

    - The loan market was used sensibly, not a constant procession & revolving door.

    - The #FrenchLads were limited in number each season and discernibly made a difference.

    - Accepting we are a selling club, demonstrate a strategy to transfer policy. We held strong on assets - selling them for good money - to be able to reinvest some of the income on new players.

    - Will you invest in a new pitch and upgrade/improve the training facilities?

     

    Next Steps

     

    I want him to accept an invitation from the Trust to be questioned/interviewed and there to be no limit on what can be asked, with the resulting answered published in full. I then want dialogue between him and the Trust to be regular and for both parties to work collaboratively, with the Trust allowed to communicate whatever they deem acceptable to the wider fan base.

    Bloody hell Andy, I log out and go shopping for a few hours and wham.....

     

    I was hoping it was a meeting to establish our next steps, this is a whole new meeting itself. Excellent by the way.

     

     

     

     

    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted · Edited by underdog

    Dear all

     

    Here is the link for agenda

     

    https://trustoldham.co.uk/events/trust-fans-meeting/

     

    We have all worked hard to pull this together, Andy B who post on here with regards to Agenda (there is a more detailed one..TBA), Darren on sourcing venue and a back up just in case, others who have fielded lots of questions over the last few days on social media ect...we do what we can

     

    I don't like this work malarkly...I'm not used to it. hahah....

     

    Thanks

     

     

    • Like 2

    Confirmed Fans Meeting on Sat 23rd March - are you interested?

    in The opinions4u Terraces - Latics Forum

    Posted

    6 minutes ago, kowenicki said:

    Will the agenda be published here prior? 

     

    Just want to ensure it’s worth bothering and not akin to the PFJ meeting to take action. 

     

     

    Yes thats the plan Kowenicki....we need some sort of structure as I am sure the meeting will be diverse in its thoughts of those that attend.

     

    Being blond and thick...whats the PFJ meeting?

     

    My phones been going off since 7.30am with it all...who says we don't offer a 24 hour service hahah.

     

     

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