Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 We do not, by the way, currently average 6,500 and are in a situation where gates are falling due to there being nothing to play for. Your are correct there corporal. We currently average just under 5,800 for league games this season and last season we averaged just over 6,100. Whilst other people have mentioned a figure of around 4,000, this was I believe taken as purely home supporters only in times of low crowds as in last Tuesdays game against Carlisle. However such low figures also have to be taken in context against other clubs crowds that night. Go and have a look if you haven't already done so. The figure I used was not plucked out of the air. It is the figure that TTA used to put their business plan together 4 years ago when they first came in. That was the average figure at the time as put out in documentation from the Administrator. As I said in my earlier post part of a medium to long term business plan to put the club on a level field financially. However I take your point 1 stage further to take into account the revised and upto date figures that your posts clearly suggest I should use. The current average attendance is 5,800. The break even figure is around 7,800-8,000. The additional annual income stream from the ground redevlopment will be in excess of £1million or equivallent to around 3,500 - 4,000 per home league game giving an equivalent average home attendance (Please note total home and away fans) of around 9,200 - 9,700. That would take us to a position where the break even income level of today is exceeded and provide additional funding for the manager to invest in the team in terms of a stronger squad (numbers) or better quality players (wages) and or transfer fees. As a worst scenario, the additional income would be an extra £350K on top of this seasons budget. Using the average attendance level of 6,500 that TTA have based their business plan on that would provide an additional £750K - £800K of additional funding each season. As both Rummy, IC and BB80 have said previously there is a plan. It just appears that you either don't believe it, don't undersatnd it, are too impatient or have lost the faith. Alternatively you are just totally bored and fancy having a discussion over a number of days on a message board to waste the days away The summer of 2003 will stay in the minds of many fans for a long time. However, I have been close enough to the situation to remember the equally worrying times of 1982, 1984, 1999 and 2001 to know that if a business plan such as that currently being run by TTA is not implemented, then we will not be needing to worry about having debates on this board about investment and trying to achieve promotion. Instead we will be talking over old times with misty eyes about when we had a club, because that is the only place we will be going. Not up, not down, but into oblivion. So I return to the theme of my earlier post and re-iterate that to attain the succes that you and we all crave , we need stability. That stability in my opinion needs to be in sticking with the current management team, giving them time and backing to create the team they want to build. Stability in terms of finance by creating additional income from the stadium development that will be in the bank before we kick off each season and the further stability that brings to future financial backing to add to and improve the team. One final point for you to ponder. In terms of longer term planning (and I know you don't like to think long term, only short term and the here and now) have you noticed anything on the ground re-development plans that hasn't been mentioned yet? If not, take a look at the back section of the RRE stand. Have TTA got further ideas to re-develop this stand in the future to create additional income when funding permits? I don't know the answer to this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, because they are obviously forward thinking. Thanks for the banter. Cheers, Harry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Cheers, Harry Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Harry Alan :wink Not even close. I'll give you a clue. See you on the Beardy bus at Vale! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Not even close. I'll give you a clue. See you on the Beardy bus at Vale! "alan hardy arrested in vodka+red bull drinking frenzy,aboard coach to port vale..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Dowds Green Shirt Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 "alan hardy arrested in vodka+red bull drinking frenzy,aboard coach to port vale..." I'll have to get our James to have "a word" with you you Johnny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I'll have to get our James to have "a word" with you you Johnny. what...if he can get away from his future bride!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Is there a supply of newborns on the beardy bus? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Is there a supply of newborns on the beardy bus? we'll go via the delivery ward just in case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Harry Alan Is there a supply of newborns on the beardy bus? Ah, get it now! Took me a while there. Unless the bus has blacked out windows I can't see him turning up. He hasn't travelled to an away game since Barlows stopped doing the travel when they sent along one of their "other" vehicles for Nosferatu to travel in. Edited February 5, 2008 by beag_teeets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The fact that you claim not to want to rejoin the debate and then proceed to re-enter it once more would seem to sum up the confusion of mind that sees you, and others, apparently get so unreasonably upset about the very reasonable points I've made throughout-which is what causes you to again reiterate arguments that have been answered several times over during the thread. For instance, you once again wheel out the 'losing £15k a week' argument as a justification for the fact that, in football terms, the club is going nowhere, when it has already been pointed out at least half a dozen times that the losses will only get bigger as the Oldham public-who are, as also noted, entirely unaware of the fabled 'plan'- fails to be inspired enough by mediocrity to get along to BP, and so (wait for it...) ease the financial plight. This is, again as noted, a vicious circle that can only be broken by keeping together for more than a season a stable squad containing quality players. Yes it would involve an extra financial outlay-but not necessarily a drastic one, and one that would hopefully be recouped by success. It is a dilemma faced by most clubs and only the boldest and most creative break out of it. You claim to be able to see the need for a stable squad-yet only reiterate why we can't have one. Well, the bad news is that without one-and one that looks serious about promotion-the public is not going to show sufficient interest. This might boost the holier-than-thou attitude of certain die-hard supporters, but it will not help the club, especially if things regarding the stadium do not go according to (cough) plan. That's just one example of the way that you and several others simply reiterate the same things over and again while offering no evidence, which is all you have done here. 'Fact and reason' simply don't come into it. To claim that I think I've found a magic formula is, furthermore, absolutely laughable when the opposing arguments are solely based around a plan that nobody even knows for sure exists. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. And yes-I'm well aware of the advances for the club achieved by the TTA. Unfortunately, all of it is in the area of off-the-field activities. In fooballing terms we are no further forward than we were under Andy Ritchie-another manager who had the team playing good football near the bottom of the table. The Oldham populace wasn't interested then either. Maybe Leezyverpunk was right. Would pictures help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Thought I'd see if you had replied with more ramblings, whilst hoping that something from my post might actually have sunk in.....but nope, more of the same ramblings, but as it was only a quick paragraph of gobbledegook that you offered this time, I thought I'd respond.... I left out Bristol City did I??? Check the list of teams I mentioned. They're in it....and "ahem, Bristol City and the 'massive 11,000'".....if you don't think 11,000 is massive for 3rd tier football there is something seriously, seriously wrong with you fella! Likewise if you think we can ever achieve that regularly, with or without the same squad for stability for the next X amount of years! Which I can just about see as your only offered solution in your ramblings! Here's the massive flaw your "solution" has though.... The very same people you think will be interested, might just as easily class the lack of influx of fresh players as a lack of ambition. If we keep the same squad (guarantees success does it?....not saying your idea is wrong, I'd like a level of stability in it but I understand why we don't get to have it) and just kept the current players (ie. Porter, Wellens etc) they might as easily state that "they weren't good enough to get us up last season, why should they be this season?" You might counter and say you want to keep them and add to it. I argued that under Moore.....but a manager change happened. You could say Shez had the chance in the Summer of 2007....he did, but at what price? Most of the budget unfortunately (we have to stick to one, it's not unambitious, it's common sense) and he didn't want to do that as he wanted his own team, his own spine, his own players....so that questions if he was right and goes into another subject over "is he good enough to succeed as manager".....the discussion all interlinks. The sad fact though is that it is any old excuse is reeled out by this public (the apathetic Oldham public) that you say is supposedly not in knowledge of the clubs future plan of making us self-reliant. Why are they not in knowledge of it? If anything.....the recent planning application/constant press through November and December showed the ambition of the club. The answer is....They don't want to hear it....they'd rather switch on their SKY and drum it out and thus our future lies without them and in building such stadium, so we don't need them. As it is....as long as Shez goes nowhere, I seriously can see us getting the chance for Shez to have a budget whereby we keep the majority of the current side and add to it this summer as should've happened IMO in Summer 2006. Bringing the stability you cry, the fresh blood to push on and so maybe next January, we won't have this circle of discussion if it works. Circumstances have meant the budget hasn't been there in the past....not lack of ambition.....but I'm sure if what I predict, happens in Summer 2008 and we're not up there in the league though, you'll have some other reason as to why we ain't showing ambition. The truth....you don't have the definitive solution. Hey...I don't either. But to call their ambition is a bit sickening to me....I'd say they're extremely ambitious to try and deliver a stadium the clubs been after for over a decade of wranglings with this council. I know I'd rather hope for a Stadium to be built, hope for TTA to keep bailing us out while we wait for it and hope their calculated gambles work out whilst allowing us to keep down the losses at a minimum. I'd rather that than gamble even further, push up the losses and see us fail to go up anyway and then be worse off and threaten our existence. Especially when you don't even believe in TTA's Stadium plan to inject money into us once we're self reliant......infact, it'd be ludicrous for them to do it! And ludicrous for you to want them to, if you don't believe in "The plan." Unless of course, you don't give a about the club going under & want us back in severe financial poo!!! It's how you make it sound. You seem to be be suffering from the 'massive' disease that afflicts contemporary football, where every club that was once in the second tier or regularly tops 10,000 is 'a sleeping giant' or 'massive', at least in the eyes of 'prominent fans' and whoever the latest manager happens to be (after his briefing by club officials and supportive emails from 'prominent fans'.) The reality of most of these clubs is that they are more like sleeping gnats than sleeping giants. So 11,000 is not massive, even in this division. I remember being in crowds like that at BP nearly every week in this division (and sometimes getting on for twice that many). Crowds of that size always seemed to come, funnily enough, when the club seemed to want to get out of the division and the team was making strenuous efforts in that direction. The game has changed since then, fair enough, but the population of the town remains the same size. Given enough ambition, flair and determination we would reach the magical break even point of 8,000-but it would take consistency. One false dawn after another will not bring it about, even if it gives Inspiral Carpet the opportunity to sulk bcause the extra 3,000 didn't all come along at once. I wish that people would stop suggesting that I have put forward some kind of solution, when all I have done, as I keep having to say, is point out that you can't simultaneously cry about the club losing money and justify the mediocrity that is the central reason why more people won't turn up and ease the club's financial plight. As I said, the proof of this will come when we have the annual bout of hand-wringing about falling season ticket sales in the summer. That the Oldham public is apathetic is neither here nor there when you consider the fact that crowds do indeed rise (again, you have to say it...funnily enough) when the team is performing well on the pitch and falls...roll on the drums...when it isn't. The odd season of doing reasonably well, only to be followed by the usual mediocrity only means that the newly won over cynical and apathetic Oldhamer will (roll on the drums again)...stop coming once more. It isn't Ian Dowie's degree subject, and no amount of holier-than-thouness or downright bitterness towards Oldhamers from the die-hards can alter that fact. It's a market economy-and football clubs have to compete or die. In the kind of society we have now, what right do clubs have to expect local people to have an automatic sense of duty to their hometown club? Another thing I wish people would stop doing is claiming that I question the TTA's ambitions for the club when I have said repeatedly that I do believe that they have the best interests of the club at heart and want to leave it in a far healthier state than they found it. I support them wholeheartedly in that-but what I do not see any real evidence of is that this ambition necessarily involves the desire for the club to ever play at a higher level again. To be sure, I don't doubt that they would like it if it happened, but, as far as I can tell, the entire club seems to now share the attitude of those fans who believe that the last ten seasons prove that we have 'found our level' (whatever that is supposed to mean.) Promotion is still spoken of, but in an' if it happens, it happens' manner (always followed by those words that justify perpetual failure:'I'm only glad that we still have a club to watch.') Edited February 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Maybe Leezyverpunk was right. Would pictures help? Water off a duck's back when you consider that we'll still be puzzling over the reasons why we're near the bottom of the league next season, or the season after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Ever thought that maybe the points you've been trying to make are mostly without foundation, without an viable alternative and are all made by pure guesswork from somebody outside the club. This could be why you're in the extreme minority in your thinking and why the majority are growing tired of your, erm, 'reasoned' (if ya say so) arguement. Just a thought like. I'm not in a minority. All I am is an unofficial representative in the BP stands of the 200,000 Oldhamers who see no reason to ever set foot in Boundary Park when they can watch far better football at a fraction of the cost. That's a majority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) No-one has a crystal ball, so yes, you're perhaps right we may not see much progress on the pitch in the next couple of seasons. It's a possibility - change of manager, loss of momentum and a new guy has to come in and put HIS plan into place. But at the moment we're developing the momentum and IMO are just perhaps 2 or 3 good quality players short of a side that's more than good enough to get out of this division. Perhaps they'll come next season who's knows? But there certainly isn't any real cause for worry or concern. People like you somehow seem to find some. It doesn't seem to have struck some people that, with this laid back attitude towards promotion, they are ensuring that the supposed blueprint for success is geared towards...financial stability within this division which, with each season that passes, appears to more and more people to be our natural home. And no more than that. Edited February 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Can you explain why that happens to be unfortunate? No? So you think the squad assembled in what, 1998-99 is, man for man better than the squad we have now? What if we had gone up last season and we're in the position Colchester are in now? Would we be better in footballing terms even though we'd be a division higher but facing an immediate return to this division to start again? The bottom line of your debate is that we should spend more to either retain the likes of Kilkenny, Wellens or Trotman and also bring in players of better calibre or quality? Right? I agree in we need to retain some of these players, but if they go, they go. I wouldn't want us spending more than we should and potentially turning those big weekly losses into bigger weekly losses. Knowwarramean? If you can't, after seven pages see why the fact that all TTA's successes are off-the-field is an unfortunate one (clue: something to do with the vicious circle of apathy and a resulting financial loss), then I'm not going to convince you now. I think the squad we have now is far better than any Ritchie had to manage with. Unfortunately results are not, and neither is the league position. We sometimes used to go to big clubs and win with Ritchie, only to come back to BP and lose to some mediocre fellow-strugglers in front of less fans than we took to the bigger club's ground. What's changed? As for your comments on Colchester, I think we are getting to the root of the problem, which is that too many people (within the club as well as amongst the fans?) now believe that it is better not to try for promotion and face the prospect of struggling in the higher division. As I say, this is an attitude that will, the longer it persists, undoubtedly carry over to the brave new dawn of the redeveloped stadium. It also leaves aside the fact that we are, historically, considerably bigger than Colchester, with a bigger fan base. One reason why the Oldham public will not turn up at BP (especially former diehards who have given up) is that they see several such small clubs sail past us. Most of them might not succeed in staying up long-term, but at least they have a go. A season or several playing bigger and better opposition than at present has more chance of contributing to an expanded fan base than constant non-achievement in this division. It's a sad day when we have staunch Latics fans comparing us to the likes of traditional minnows of the English game like Colchester (and no disrespect to their considerable achievements of recent years.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 It doesn't seem to have struck some people that........ And therin lies the massive problem in trying to have a sensible debate with you. People have clearly thought about this far more deeply than yourself. They have taken their time and trouble to explain to you their point of view. In return, when your arguments flounder, you say "I am not saying that.......". To be frank, I'm at a loss as to what you are actually saying because whenever you are cornered, you change your tune. It's been happening for 3 days now. You keep going round in circles and are proving that listening to reason is not part of your armour. You are entitled to your view and it doesn't matter if you are in the minority or majority. But please don't be surprised when people start to get a little tired after 3 days of debating the same subject and hearing the same groundless arguments from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Your are correct there corporal. We currently average just under 5,800 for league games this season and last season we averaged just over 6,100. Whilst other people have mentioned a figure of around 4,000, this was I believe taken as purely home supporters only in times of low crowds as in last Tuesdays game against Carlisle. However such low figures also have to be taken in context against other clubs crowds that night. Go and have a look if you haven't already done so. The figure I used was not plucked out of the air. It is the figure that TTA used to put their business plan together 4 years ago when they first came in. That was the average figure at the time as put out in documentation from the Administrator. As I said in my earlier post part of a medium to long term business plan to put the club on a level field financially. However I take your point 1 stage further to take into account the revised and upto date figures that your posts clearly suggest I should use. The current average attendance is 5,800. The break even figure is around 7,800-8,000. The additional annual income stream from the ground redevlopment will be in excess of £1million or equivallent to around 3,500 - 4,000 per home league game giving an equivalent average home attendance (Please note total home and away fans) of around 9,200 - 9,700. That would take us to a position where the break even income level of today is exceeded and provide additional funding for the manager to invest in the team in terms of a stronger squad (numbers) or better quality players (wages) and or transfer fees. As a worst scenario, the additional income would be an extra £350K on top of this seasons budget. Using the average attendance level of 6,500 that TTA have based their business plan on that would provide an additional £750K - £800K of additional funding each season. As both Rummy, IC and BB80 have said previously there is a plan. It just appears that you either don't believe it, don't undersatnd it, are too impatient or have lost the faith. Alternatively you are just totally bored and fancy having a discussion over a number of days on a message board to waste the days away The summer of 2003 will stay in the minds of many fans for a long time. However, I have been close enough to the situation to remember the equally worrying times of 1982, 1984, 1999 and 2001 to know that if a business plan such as that currently being run by TTA is not implemented, then we will not be needing to worry about having debates on this board about investment and trying to achieve promotion. Instead we will be talking over old times with misty eyes about when we had a club, because that is the only place we will be going. Not up, not down, but into oblivion. So I return to the theme of my earlier post and re-iterate that to attain the succes that you and we all crave , we need stability. That stability in my opinion needs to be in sticking with the current management team, giving them time and backing to create the team they want to build. Stability in terms of finance by creating additional income from the stadium development that will be in the bank before we kick off each season and the further stability that brings to future financial backing to add to and improve the team. One final point for you to ponder. In terms of longer term planning (and I know you don't like to think long term, only short term and the here and now) have you noticed anything on the ground re-development plans that hasn't been mentioned yet? If not, take a look at the back section of the RRE stand. Have TTA got further ideas to re-develop this stand in the future to create additional income when funding permits? I don't know the answer to this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, because they are obviously forward thinking. Thanks for the banter. Cheers, Harry I am still at a loss as to why you continue to insist on refuting allegations that I have not made. My opponents in this debate are actually the ones who are guilty of not thinking long-term, in that, by giving up on the idea of promotion as soon as possible they more or less guarantee that the future stability you speak of will be stability in this division. I see no reason to believe on current evidence that, even should 'the plan' proceed as intended, and the figures you quote become a reality (and I sincerely hope they do), more excuses will not be found as to why we can't afford a promotion-winning squad. That's what happens when you get into a cycle of excuses. We are all more than aware of the bad times we've been through, but for most of the past ten years we have been no worse off financially than the host of similar and smaller-sized clubs who have sailed past us. As I say, there are legions of former Latics diehards who sadly observe this fact from bar stools or armchairs at greater or lesser distances from Boundary Park. It also seems to have escaped people's notice that, in the event of relegation from this division (never to be dismissed when you're seven points from the bottom four, as Shez, if nobody else, seems to recognise), 'the plan' will be adjusted to deal with the reality of life in the divsion below. Should we climb out of it, that is what will be regarded as success. In other words, getting back to where we have been for the past ten years. Are you TGOBM, by the way? Edited February 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lookers87 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Whether it's 4500, 5500 or 6500 isn't really the point. The real point being that in order for the club to break-even on a budget where (irrespective of where we are or how we are playing) the cost base rises each year. Therefore the club are (in my view) being very sensible by prioritising the need to find a way of meeting this breakeven point and making a profit year on year. For football clubs there are two main routes... 1. Spend on assembling the best team possible and speculate that this could get promotion or 2. Create other ways of using assets (ie stadium/land/brand) to ensure income is regular and can grow year on year. Obviously you would like a blend (which is what TTA have tried to do), but at a club the size of ours one will alway win out over the other due to the lack of finance available to do both fully together. The TTA have decided that the 2nd route is the priority for now, whilst trying to maximise the funds available on the playing budget. I can't really blame them as they have taken a realistic look at the situation and seen 1st hand over the past 3-4 years that however good or bad the product on the pitch, the Oldham public very rarely responds. Don't forget over the past few years of the TTA we have always been guaranteed signings such as Hughes, Ricketts, Wellens, Gregan, Liddell etc, who come with big reputations and equally large wage demands. I take your point Corporal, speculation on the team and producing a high quality product on the pitch is the only way to get crowds back through the turnstiles, and for those of us that go week in week out it is disappointing that we aren't challenging for honours (lord knows we've been waiting long enough!). So spending on the team would in theory get the crowds back. However, the resources dictate that (transfer fees aside - which are usually more of a loan arrangement/donation to the club) there is a budget, and indeed a wage structure that dictates what we can do (matched to break-even points). Until this budget can be increased we will always be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Mentioning teams like Colchester, Scunthorpe, Blackpool et al in a lot of ways illustrates this point further. It would be more salient to break them down into further groups. Colchester - worked to a small budget for many years, with a team of no real stars and a good manager (and the luck that happens sometimes - they were awful at our place/away that season) they got up. You could also put Southend in this category who benefitted from working to a small budget in the basement league, unearthed a gem in Eastwood, got a good young manager and again with a workman like team used their momentum from the previous promotion campaign to get up. Blackpool, Scunthorpe, Hull (and to some extent Swansea) have all benefitted from new stadiums to a greater or lesser extent. You may question Blackpool, but I spend a great deal of time, have a number of clients who work in offices at Bloomfield road. Indeed pretty much the whole PCT is based there, giving the club a large income from off-field activities. Same goes for Hull, having again worked very closely with the key people involved in bringing their stadium to fruition. The one point I will take issue with is the suggestion that there is no plan, or this plan is just some kind of pr tool peddled to gulible fans. The TTA are hardened businessmen who have made a fortune. As someone who owns their own businesses, let me assure you that there is absolutely no way that the TTA have not got a business plan to turn this club into a self-sufficient and successful entity. I don't need to see it to know the bones of what it will contain, and as a private limited company they have no obligation to share it (if they did I'm sure the podantic on here would pick the bones out of every sentence for double-meanings). I guess that requires some faith that the people running our club know what needs to be done to make our club great again. Having seen the TTA in action and their track record at building sustainable businesses, I have faith that it will work and they know better than me who as a fan just wants us to win promotion playing fantastic football and with the best players in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 You seem to have left out those clubs who managed to sail past us without the benefit of multi-millionaire owners or 'massive' crowds like, ahem, Bristol City and the 'massive 11,000 or so they regularly had in this division. Steve Lansdown valued at c£250M. And I think they have a couple of other interested parties worth something similar. Bristol City are loaded, they are just sensible about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I am still at a loss as to why you continue to insist on refuting allegations that I have not made. My opponents in this debate are actually the ones who are guilty of not thinking long-term, in that, by giving up on the idea of promotion as soon as possible they more or less guarantee that the future stability you speak of will be stability in this division. Another gem. You are doing exactly what you accuse Harry Dowd of doing. Nobody is saying"give up the idea of promotion". Still, like the other day, if it suits your purpose, you will make conclusions for others just to fit with your paper thin argument. Let's go round again eh Corp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daznathe Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 i dont agree with this view that there is a feeling within the club that we should stay where we are, even for now. i base this on the fact that in the last minute v hudds crossley wanted to go up for a corner but shez said no yet in the league game at the weekend he allowed it. maybe he cares more about league points than fa cup progress, although it could be countered that he wants the points for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Steve Lansdown valued at c£250M. And I think they have a couple of other interested parties worth something similar. Bristol City are loaded, they are just sensible about it. Oi! The Corp doesn't do facts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The TTA have decided that the 2nd route is the priority for now, whilst trying to maximise the funds available on the playing budget. I can't really blame them as they have taken a realistic look at the situation and seen 1st hand over the past 3-4 years that however good or bad the product on the pitch, the Oldham public very rarely responds. Don't forget over the past few years of the TTA we have always been guaranteed signings such as Hughes, Ricketts, Wellens, Gregan, Liddell etc, who come with big reputations and equally large wage demands. This is simply an excuse. The Oldham public does respond to ambition, as the more successful of recent seasons has proved, but it takes time and consistency to win them over in sufficient numbers. As has also been proved, raising people's hopes, only to dash them with mediocrity the very next season, is no way nto expand a fan base. I realise that keeping a decent squad together guarantees nothing-but there is, as we have seen, little chance of getting anywhere on the basis of continual disruption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i dont agree with this view that there is a feeling within the club that we should stay where we are, even for now. i base this on the fact that in the last minute v hudds crossley wanted to go up for a corner but shez said no yet in the league game at the weekend he allowed it. maybe he cares more about league points than fa cup progress, although it could be countered that he wants the points for safety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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