Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Aye. And they're going to introduce monster truck racing during the summer for extra revenue so they can build gold statues of themselves in the Spindles centre whilst Frank Worthington tries to make the best what he can with a chewed up pitch and 3rd division players. To quote Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction... it's what alcoholics call a moment of clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I haven't got an action plan. I have never claimed to have an action plan. I have, however, wondered if the club has an action plan for the football side of things. Ok, quick a simple question and if I wasn't so lazy, I'd put up a poll. Do people generally think that the better option is to 1) Spend extra money now to retain our better players on a longer term basis and bring in some new blood, increasing our operating losses but potentially giving us the chance to watch better football, gain promotion, and thus increase crowds to a point at which we are covering/exceeding the extra operating losses in the hope we can maintain this until the ground is redeveloped and the operating losses are covered this way? The gamble with this option of course is that we don't gain promotion and crowds don't increase - or we gain promotion but crowds don't increase sufficiently to allow us to compete at a higher level leading to crowds (I'm talking about the fairweather increase here) dropping away as we're struggling to compete. 2) Do as we are now, trying to maintain a squad which has a slim chance of getting us promoted but also runs the risk of us being relegated until the ground is redeveloped - or at least part redeveloped. This could of course take another 2/3/4/5 years etc. That is of course the gamble in this option. The pay-off comes if and when the ground redevelopment gets well underway, bringing in additional income from both football and non footballing sources (a new mainstand alone would bring in more revenue simply due to facilities such as bars/lounges and executive boxes etc giving a better matchday experience), thus allowing us to offer better/longer contracts to players without significantly increasinging operating losses at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny punkster Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I haven't got an action plan. I have never claimed to have an action plan. I have, however, wondered if the club has an action plan for the football side of things. can i suggest then for you to stop digging that hole you're about to jump in then... its rather deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Where have I admitted any such thing? So you don't even read what you yourself have put. What hope for the rest of us! We had 2 years of money being thrown at the Club and good progress on the pitch culminating in a POSF defeat. And still they didn't come. I know Rome wasn't built in a day but even you with your single-tracked argument can see that 2 seasons is a fair time in football especially when the policy leaves the Club on the verge of extinction. How many more times do I have to say that I do see progress under TTA? It is just that none of it has taken place on the football side, as our current league position illustrates perfectly. In football terms we are one of the most stagnant clubs in the country. This is hardly the most controversial of points that could be made. But you constantly fail to acknowledge the investment that has been made in the playing side and in fact you state the exact opposite in that no ambition or speculation or investment has happened. 3 managers have been given the tools and resources to improve the playing side but for one reason or another, it hasn't clicked yet. Football works that way and there is no magical formula - even if like Moore you throw big bucks at it. Like I said 3 days ago, that's a whole different subject but instead you revert to Plan A and trot out the same redundant argument. You clearly cannot see the flaws in your arguments despite being proved wrong time and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 i dont agree with this view that there is a feeling within the club that we should stay where we are, even for now. i base this on the fact that in the last minute v hudds crossley wanted to go up for a corner but shez said no yet in the league game at the weekend he allowed it. maybe he cares more about league points than fa cup progress, although it could be countered that he wants the points for safety. :laught16::laught16::laught16::laught16: Sorry, but that's funny!!! Very, very funny!!! Or a whooosh.......please be a whooosh....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) The reality of most of these clubs is that they are more like sleeping gnats than sleeping giants. So 11,000 is not massive, even in this division.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzz Oh dear.....there really, really is no point with you..... Let us all know when you've come back to 2008, instead of being stuck on the terraces of 1967 (paying 2 & 6 to get in) and maybe we'll talk again..... Edited February 5, 2008 by boundaryblue80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 TEN pages now. Please, what is the record??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 TEN pages now. Please, what is the record??? 'Last one to post' thread is on 85 pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) So you don't even read what you yourself have put. What hope for the rest of us! We had 2 years of money being thrown at the Club and good progress on the pitch culminating in a POSF defeat. And still they didn't come. I know Rome wasn't built in a day but even you with your single-tracked argument can see that 2 seasons is a fair time in football especially when the policy leaves the Club on the verge of extinction. The did come-as official attendance figures show, the average gate went up. If we had continued to improve more still would eventually have come. These things take time, as some people are fond of saying. However, when you look like play-off candidates one season but possible relegation candidates the next, casual and lapsed fans don't know what to think, get disillusioned and stop coming. Income goes down. I notice that, once again, you equate tring to get promoted with going to the brink of extinction, yet again ignoring the fact that most clubs that get promoted do not nearly go out of business. That's because there is more than one way to skin a cat. Edited February 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Oh dear.....there really, really is no point with you..... Let us all know when you've come back to 2008, instead of being stuck on the terraces of 1967 (paying 2 & 6 to get in) and maybe we'll talk again..... The fact remains that 11,000 is a far from massive crowd, whether they're paying two and six or twenty-six quid. I did prefer the days when we could compete with the absolute giants of the game like Bristol City, Swansea and Doncaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 But you constantly fail to acknowledge the investment that has been made in the playing side and in fact you state the exact opposite in that no ambition or speculation or investment has happened. 3 managers have been given the tools and resources to improve the playing side but for one reason or another, it hasn't clicked yet. Football works that way and there is no magical formula - even if like Moore you throw big bucks at it. Like I said 3 days ago, that's a whole different subject but instead you revert to Plan A and trot out the same redundant argument. You clearly cannot see the flaws in your arguments despite being proved wrong time and again. You, and certain others, seem to argue against what you would like me to have said, rather than what I have actually said. I have not claimed that there has been no investment in the playing side, but pointed out the flaws in tearing a side apart every close season-flaws the result of which we have seen only too well, and not only during the present season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I notice that, once again, you equate tring to get promoted with going to the brink of extinction, yet again ignoring the fact that most clubs that get promoted do not nearly go out of business. Yes. Yes you are right. That's exactly what I said isn't it. Actually, once again, you are (deliberately?) misunderstanding things and reaching conclusions that are not there. I find that a little sad. As I said earlier, you don't even appear to understand what you yourself write so there is little hope for the rest of us. Keep digging Corp and keep on with the same tired old argument if it floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorvik_latic Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) I notice that, once again, you equate tring to get promoted with going to the brink of extinction, yet again ignoring the fact that most clubs that get promoted do not nearly go out of business. That's because there is more than one way to skin a cat. Those are the ones that are successful though. Leeds spent money on trying to get back into the prem- administration. Rotherham, Luton- administration. QPR got promoted and nearly went out of business. Being in the Championship doesn't guarantee success. Edited February 5, 2008 by jorvik_latic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Are you sure? Are you positively sure about that? You're wrong - I'm not even sure how you could percieve it as so either. That's enough from me - you've been making stuff up for the last 24hrs, that's to my knowledge. The quote above is the last straw... I am absolutely positive that those who are prepared to put off a serious promotion challenge until some time never are the ones who are guilty of not thinking long-term. On the other hand, I have been doing just that, not least in warning of how stagnation in this divsion will inevitably result in 'the plan' being adjusted to ensure stability in this division. Relegation (which only John Sheridan and I appear to regard as a real threat), meanwhile, would eat into any profits generated by the stadium redevelopment, and would result in an adjustment of expectations whereby getting back to where we are now would come to be regarded as success. Those are the ones that are successful though. Leeds spent money on trying to get back into the prem- administration. Rotherham, Luton- administration. QPR got promoted and nearly went out of business. Being in the Championship doesn't guarantee success. I never said that it guaranteed anything. I did say that without the club trying seriously to get there, the public of Oldham will not respond in sufficient numbers to offset current financial losses, resulting in the inevitable adjustment of ambitions towards stability at our current level. Yes. Yes you are right. That's exactly what I said isn't it. Actually, once again, you are (deliberately?) misunderstanding things and reaching conclusions that are not there. I find that a little sad. As I said earlier, you don't even appear to understand what you yourself write so there is little hope for the rest of us. Keep digging Corp and keep on with the same tired old argument if it floats your boat. If that's what I'm doing then that makes two of us, Mr Carpet. I meant you are in the minority on the debate which is chundering on here. Not the entire fanbase (including fairweather fans). Which reinforces some folks suggestions that you're obviously not seeing or reading things properly. However, it is the debate with the Oldham public (much maligned fairweather fans included) that counts, not the one on here. Ok, quick a simple question and if I wasn't so lazy, I'd put up a poll. Do people generally think that the better option is to 1) Spend extra money now to retain our better players on a longer term basis and bring in some new blood, increasing our operating losses but potentially giving us the chance to watch better football, gain promotion, and thus increase crowds to a point at which we are covering/exceeding the extra operating losses in the hope we can maintain this until the ground is redeveloped and the operating losses are covered this way? The gamble with this option of course is that we don't gain promotion and crowds don't increase - or we gain promotion but crowds don't increase sufficiently to allow us to compete at a higher level leading to crowds (I'm talking about the fairweather increase here) dropping away as we're struggling to compete. 2) Do as we are now, trying to maintain a squad which has a slim chance of getting us promoted but also runs the risk of us being relegated until the ground is redeveloped - or at least part redeveloped. This could of course take another 2/3/4/5 years etc. That is of course the gamble in this option. The pay-off comes if and when the ground redevelopment gets well underway, bringing in additional income from both football and non footballing sources (a new mainstand alone would bring in more revenue simply due to facilities such as bars/lounges and executive boxes etc giving a better matchday experience), thus allowing us to offer better/longer contracts to players without significantly increasinging operating losses at all. Put in those stark terms, it all looks like a choice between Fred and Rosemary West. Edited February 5, 2008 by Ackey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 If that's what I'm doing then that makes two of us, Mr Carpet. Actually, I'm now quite enjoying proving you wrong time after time. Here are the average attendances at Boundary Park for the last few Seasons:- 1999-2000 - 5391 2000-2001 - 4972 2001-2002 - 5800 2002-2003 - 6699 2003-2004 - 6566 2004-2005 - 6462 2005-2006 - 5796 2006-2007 - 6334 2007-2008* - 5951 *To date. I've given you the ammunition now please use it to justify your argument. Or will you (as on previous occasions on this thread) ignore fact and instead rely on the feeling in your water? Piss and wind Corporal. Piss and wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 However, it is the debate with the Oldham public (much maligned fairweather fans included) that counts, not the one on here. Person to get the last word in claims victory is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Here are the average attendances at Boundary Park for the last few Seasons:- 2003-2004 - 6566 2004-2005 - 6462 2006-2007 - 6334 Well would you look at that. Both the admin season and Ronnie Moore's last season were higher than last season's play off campaign. Flooded back, didn't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 (edited) Actually, I'm now quite enjoying proving you wrong time after time. Here are the average attendances at Boundary Park for the last few Seasons:- 1999-2000 - 5391 2000-2001 - 4972 2001-2002 - 5800 2002-2003 - 6699 2003-2004 - 6566 2004-2005 - 6462 2005-2006 - 5796 2006-2007 - 6334 2007-2008* - 5951 *To date. I've given you the ammunition now please use it to justify your argument. Or will you (as on previous occasions on this thread) ignore fact and instead rely on the feeling in your water? Piss and wind Corporal. Piss and wind. I finally concede that you are indeed absolutely correct-the figures clearly show that crowds did not rise significantly during the play-off season of 2002-3, with most additional fans sticking around despite the crisis of the following season, only to fall off again as it became clear that e were going nowhere under Talbot. Nor did crowds rise again during the play-off campaign of last year, only to dip again as this season's disappointment set in. Black is actually white. Edited February 5, 2008 by Corporal_Jones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well would you look at that. Both the admin season and Ronnie Moore's last season were higher than last season's play off campaign. Flooded back, didn't they? Hey come on FMS play fair. They did flood back to the tune of 6699 average when we were playing great football under Dowie and had massive investment on the pitch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I finally concede that you are indeed absolutely correct-the figures clearly show that crowds did not rise significantly during the play-off season of 2002-3, with most additional fans sticking around despite the crisis of the following season, only to fall off again as it became clear that e were going nowhere under Talbot. Nor did crowds rise again during the play-off campaign of last year, only to dip again as this season's disappointment set in. Black is actually white. :laught16: :laught16: So we have been arguing all this time about a fluctuation of around 700 fans average over the last 7 years! Priceless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well would you look at that. Both the admin season and Ronnie Moore's last season were higher than last season's play off campaign. Flooded back, didn't they? 2005/6 was Ronnie Moore's last season, not 2004/5. What the figures actually show is hundreds of additional fans came when a promotion bid looked like it was on the cards-or, as Chris Moore's first full season indicates, when there is cause for some hope. This suggests that more still would come if there was reason for that kind of hope to be sustained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 2005/6 was Ronnie Moore's last season, not 2004/5. Oh, god. You're right! So that means that for two seasons before Ronnie's fanfare, when we were struggling near the relegation places all season they were HIGHER than the two seasons we had when we were flirting around with promotion? Which kind of fades the colours well and truly nailed to your mast then Corp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inspiral_Carpet Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 2005/6 was Ronnie Moore's last season, not 2004/5. What the figures actually show is hundreds of additional fans came when a promotion bid looked like it was on the cards-or, as Chris Moore's first full season indicates, when there is cause for some hope. This suggests that more still would come if there was reason for that kind of hope to be sustained. Hundreds! Hundreds I tell ya! Break out the champagne and let's celebrate! Only another 1500 to go and we may break even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 :laught16: :laught16: So we have been arguing all this time about a fluctuation of around 700 fans average over the last 7 years! Priceless! Doesn't 700 fans equate to roughly £10-15,000 each home game? You know-something close to those weekly losses you keep reminding us rules out any chance of us getting a squad capable of winning promotion?. And yet again you ignore the fact that a sustained push would, as at any club, see more still added to that figure. As demonstrated when we get in the play-offs, or a major cup tie. The interest is there when the club does something to warrant it. When it doesn't, the die-hards are on their own. I just wish the holier-than-thous like you and Shankly would admit that you have a grudge against the Oldham public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfatjoe1 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 'Last one to post' thread is on 85 pages. 85!!! No way. what was that for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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