Good point

[GlossopLatic]

You can't undermine what hasn't been said. I didn't say that we had comparable spending power but, simply, that it is galling to see us left standing by clubs historically smaller or no bigger than we are, whatever the reason, particularly when this club failed to build for the future on the basis of success that it will never see again.

 

The days of the likes of myself expecting us to win every game are long, long gone, meanwhile.

 

I fail to see how from 6th to 12th in the table can be construed as progress particularly when the aim was said to be promotion.

 

As for realism, what this really means in our context is unquestioning acceptance of eternal mediocrity or worse. Fine for those who get off on that kind of thing, I guess.

 

So what do we do about it then no point in moaning about the past what might have been come on tell us how we can compete with Donny and Swansea then?

 

You remind me of someone who just sits there moans about something feeling sorry for themselves and never does anything about it I don't have much time for people like that.

Edited March 25, 2008 by GlossopLatic

[Hometownclub]

So what do we do about it then no point in moaning about the past what might have been come on tell us how we can compete with Donny and Swansea then?

 

You remind me of someone who just sits there moans about something feeling sorry for themselves and never does anything about it I don't have much time for people like that.

 

Absolutely spot on.

 

The doom and gloomers moan about every result and every performance and indeed everything the club tries to do, but they never ever come up with any ideas or worthwhile suggestions just moan and moan and moan.

 

They just love wollowing in their own self pity.

[Tasmanian_Devil]

Ok, so we compete with the spending power of Leeds, Forest and Donny and Swansea how exactly?

 

I hear you bleating on and on and on sarcastically about "how we should be able to compete with these little clubs", yet I see no counter argument. So what do we do, Arsene? Throw money around like it's going out of fashion? Been there, done that. Didn't work. Change the manager? Again? Been there, done that. doesn't work.

 

So how do we do it?

 

Go on, try a bit of optimism. You might like it....................

 

EDIT: Incidentally, good point today. I've just realised that I've assisted in another of of your tedious thread hijackings.

 

If you look at most of the recent seasons, there are usually one or two teams who have a small budget but get a well organised team and go up; Scunny, Colchester, Blackpool, Gillingham, Rotherham, Brighton and Carlisle look like they'll do it this year.

 

I think in Shez and the 3A's we've got a good infrastructure to be that team next year. Look how well we are doing with a full first team out at the moment? Imagine what we could achieve if we had most of those players available and playing regularly together.

 

I agree, we don't need to splash the cash, or change the manager, we just need a bit of luck on the injury front.

[philliggi]

Absolutely spot on.

 

The doom and gloomers moan about every result and every performance and indeed everything the club tries to do, but they never ever come up with any ideas or worthwhile suggestions just moan and moan and moan.

 

They just love wollowing in their own self pity.

 

your wrong there. one or two have come up with the previously unheard suggestion of SHEZ OUT!!!! barmy!!

[oafc0000]

How did a simple well done to the boys result in this :P

[Corporal_Jones]

Absolutely spot on.

 

The doom and gloomers moan about every result and every performance and indeed everything the club tries to do, but they never ever come up with any ideas or worthwhile suggestions just moan and moan and moan.

 

They just love wollowing in their own self pity.

 

 

 

Wrong. In my third decade of watching it still ruins my weekend when Latics suffer a bad result.

 

The way forward for the club has been debated endlessly on boards like this over the years, but why should it be up to the fans to do this anyway? After all, it isn't as if anybody will act on our suggestions, is it?

 

Have you ever thought that if signs of progress on the football sidewere discernible then people might not complain as much? Why does it bother you anyway-it isn't as if complaining on a message board makes any difference to anything, and if you don't like it nobody forces you to read.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Corporal_Jones]

So what do we do about it then no point in moaning about the past what might have been come on tell us how we can compete with Donny and Swansea then?

 

You remind me of someone who just sits there moans about something feeling sorry for themselves and never does anything about it I don't have much time for people like that.

 

 

 

For the nth time-why should it be up to the fans to map out a way forward for the club? No football club is particularly interested in the opinion of the fans on any crucial issue. What they are primarily interested in is our hard-earned cash.

 

The point about what might have been is relevant in that the failure to capitalise on the club's only opportunity to significantly grow in stature is the precise reason why we are stuck where we are and why clubs that were far, far below us back then comfortably sail past us.

 

As I say above, stupidly, I still suffer when Latics do badly and fail to make progress, and no less than those who wear the blue-tinted specs.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Hometownclub]

Wrong. In my third decade of watching it still ruins my weekend when Latics suffer a bad result.

 

The way forward for the club has been debated endlessly on boards like this over the years, but why should it be up to the fans to do this anyway? After all, it isn't as if anybody will act on our suggestions, is it?

 

Have you ever thought that if signs of progress on the football sidewere discernible then people might not complain as much? Why does it bother you anyway-it isn't as if complaining on a message board makes any difference to anything, and if you don't like it nobody forces you to read.

 

The doom and gloomers moan about every result and every performance and indeed everything the club tries to do, but they never ever come up with any ideas or worthwhile suggestions just moan and moan and moan.

 

They just love wollowing in their own self pity.

[Corporal_Jones]

The doom and gloomers moan about every result and every performance and indeed everything the club tries to do, but they never ever come up with any ideas or worthwhile suggestions just moan and moan and moan.

 

They just love wollowing in their own self pity.

 

 

 

Have you not noticed that this nonsense has already been answered more than once?

 

How exactly can complaining about the lack of progress at the club you support be construed as self pity?

[Eddie_m'gurk]

I have a new slogon for you probably the must fustrating team in the world good point today. Only 4 points off the play-offs.

 

Christ, what the hell are you lot on????

PLAY OFFS!!!

[GlossopLatic]

For the nth time-why should it be up to the fans to map out a way forward for the club? No football club is particularly interested in the opinion of the fans on any crucial issue. What they are primarily interested in is our hard-earned cash.

 

The point about what might have been is relevant in that the failure to capitalise on the club's only opportunity to significantly grow in stature is the precise reason why we are stuck where we are and why clubs that were far, far below us back then comfortably sail past us.

 

As I say above, stupidly, I still suffer when Latics do badly and fail to make progress, and no less than those who wear the blue-tinted specs.

 

The past is exactly that the past. No point in moaning about it we can't do anything about it what we can do something about is the here, now and the future. On the same basis just because we have struggled in this divison in the past doesn't mean we can't get out of it in the future.

 

For those who continually slag of the quality of this divison is it really that easy to get out of? you ask the fans of Leeds Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City, Stoke City and even our massive firends from down the road Manchester City. All big clubs who have been in this divison in the last 10 years and non of them won it! But as the fans of Colchester, Southend, Scunthorpe, Rotherham, Walsall, Blackpool ( just a few teams who have gained promotion to the divison above in the last 10 years who have comparitive resources to our own) will tell you it is possible. I for one will cling to that hope and thats what will keep me coming to BP if that makes me a "Happy Clapper" then so be it I don't care.

[Corporal_Jones]

The past is exactly that the past. No point in moaning about it we can't do anything about it what we can do something about is the here, now and the future. On the same basis just because we have struggled in this divison in the past doesn't mean we can't get out of it in the future.

 

For those who continually slag of the quality of this divison is it really that easy to get out of? you ask the fans of Leeds Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday, Bristol City, Stoke City and even our massive firends from down the road Manchester City. All big clubs who have been in this divison in the last 10 years and non of them won it! But as the fans of Colchester, Southend, Scunthorpe, Rotherham, Walsall, Blackpool ( just a few teams who have gained promotion to the divison above in the last 10 years who have comparitive resources to our own) will tell you it is possible. I for one will cling to that hope and thats what will keep me coming to BP if that makes me a "Happy Clapper" then so be it I don't care.

 

 

 

I haven't been saying its easy, but that, as all the evidence proves, the longer you are bogged down in the division, the harder it is to get out of it.

 

Here's one I made earlier:

 

It's the cumulative effect of all the years in this division and two botched attempts at promotion, the chances of which do not come along all that often, combined with a dawning realisation that, coming as they did at the worst possible time, with all the money concentrated in the divisions above us, these years have seen us shrink in stature as a club, making it highly unlikely that we will ever rise again. Quite simply, many people appear to have lost the faith. It is not entirely the fault of the club. The greed now prevalent in the game has pretty much ruined it, and it's just that, our decline coming when it did makes us a particularly acute example of what happens to small(ish) clubs when everything comes down to who has the most money.

 

This mood could be increasingly sensed over the past few years, and the idea that replacing Moore with the unproven Sheridan would somehow break this cycle of decline and resulting loss of faith was naive. Perhaps those calling the shots at the club do in fact spend too much time reading boards like this and are under the impression that the views of those amongst the Oldham public who still care to some degree about their hometown club are in any way reflected by the online optimists.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Hometownclub]

How exactly can complaining about the lack of progress at the club you support be construed as self pity?

 

Given the circumstances of this season with up to 9/10/11 players on the treatment table at any given time (I know it must be a big table), how did you seriously expect us to make any progres on the field.

 

As we got to the play-offs last season then we would have had to reach at least the play-offs again and probably got to the play-off final in order for progress to have been seen to have been made.

 

We do not have the resourses that would be needed to maintain a 40 man first team squad at the club, which we would have needed for the injury situation not to have had a crippling effect on us.

 

Under these circumstances how did you expect us to make the required progress on the field?

[GlossopLatic]

I haven't been saying its easy, but that, as all the evidence proves, the longer you are bogged down in the division, the harder it is to get out of it.

 

Here's one I made earlier:

 

No you haven't to be fair the 2nd paragraph was a more general point I was making as many (not necessarily yourself) are under the illusion that this is an easy division to get out of its not and takes alot of hard work.

 

My first paragraph was in respone to what you said which was that we can't change what has happened in the past so their ain't much point complaining about it. We have to get on with the here and now just because this club has not achieved sucess in gaining promotion in the last decade or so doesn't mean that it can't happen in future.

[Corporal_Jones]

Given the circumstances of this season with up to 9/10/11 players on the treatment table at any given time (I know it must be a big table), how did you seriously expect us to make any progres on the field.

 

As we got to the play-offs last season then we would have had to reach at least the play-offs again and probably got to the play-off final in order for progress to have been seen to have been made.

 

We do not have the resourses that would be needed to maintain a 40 man first team squad at the club, which we would have needed for the injury situation not to have had a crippling effect on us.

 

Under these circumstances how did you expect us to make the required progress on the field?

 

 

 

 

I don't see how your post has anything to do with the sentence you quote from one of mine. But anyway. I don't really expect the team to make progress any more. Judging by the alarming drop in attendances hundreds (if not thousands if you include occasional supporters) feel the same way.

 

As indicated by what you say, the club is in a trap not entirely of its own making. Some clubs like ours do seem to be able to make progress despite meeting similar difficulties, but they evidently have something we lack.

Edited March 26, 2008 by Corporal_Jones

[Hometownclub]

I don't see how your post has anything to do with the sentence you quote from one of mine. But anyway. I don't really expect the team to make progress any more. Judging by the alarming drop in attendances hundreds (if not thousands if you include occasional supporters) feel the same way.

 

As indicated by what you say, the club is in a trap not entirely of its own making. Some clubs like ours do seem to be able to make progress despite meeting similar difficulties, but they evidently have something we lack.

 

Having read your ramblings ad infinitum in many other threads (regardless of the thread title) I am absolutely certain that you are just taking the p!ss (as I suspected during your jousts with Inspiral_Carpet) that said this is the last time I shall ever respond to one of your posts.

 

I firmly believe that having upwards of 9 first team players unavailable for selection due to injury will definately affect a teams performances and results, and ultimately affect league position and perceived progress on the pitch.

 

Nothing you spout will ever change my mind on this issue.

[Corporal_Jones]

Having read your ramblings ad infinitum in many other threads (regardless of the thread title) I am absolutely certain that you are just taking the p!ss (as I suspected during your jousts with Inspiral_Carpet) that said this is the last time I shall ever respond to one of your posts.

 

I firmly believe that having upwards of 9 first team players unavailable for selection due to injury will definately affect a teams performances and results, and ultimately affect league position and perceived progress on the pitch.

 

Nothing you spout will ever change my mind on this issue.

 

 

 

Read if you want, don't read if you don't want. Do you think I care one way or the other? Your own 'analyisis' of the club's plight is hardly penetrating, and it certainly isn't in any way enlightening.

 

It also seems to have escaped your notice that I haven't disagreed with what you say. I have merely pointed out that the problems you highlight are due to the trap the club finds itself in: players get injured (although why our injury list is so much bigger than most other clubs' remains a mystery); their cover is inadequate; without breaking the budget the club can't build a bigger and better quality squad; fans get disillusioned at the resulting lack of progress; crowds fall sharply (worryingly more sharply during seasons we have struggled desperately, due to no convincing long-term recovery from those darkest of days), resulting in a smaller budget and continuing lack of progress or further decline.

 

As I said, we are not the only club to find ourselves in this position; simply, we are one of those clubs that flounders as opposed to finding a way to flourish like some do.

[Stitch_KTF]

Corporal as ive said to you before your point(s) make sense but you are a few years late making them.

[Corporal_Jones]

Corporal as ive said to you before your point(s) make sense but you are a few years late making them.

 

 

 

Perhaps-but the impossible situation the club is in has only become apparent for many (it would seem from the falling gates), quite recently. Attendances rose under Chris Moore and remained modestly higher than they had been in the Ritchie days until relatively recently. This would seem to indicate that a lot of people still had faith in the notion that the club might still achieve something. I did myself.

[oafcmetty]

Perhaps-but the impossible situation the club is in has only become apparent for many (it would seem from the falling gates), quite recently. Attendances rose under Chris Moore and remained modestly higher than they had been in the Ritchie days until relatively recently. This would seem to indicate that a lot of people still had faith in the notion that the club might still achieve something. I did myself.

Apparently there was an interesting discussion on Five Live recently regarding the initial setting up of the Premier League. We were cited as one of the strongest voices calling for all money raised by tv revenues etc to stay within the Prem, and not get distributed throughout England.

 

It was suggested that we now might be regretting that stance a little...!

[Corporal_Jones]

Apparently there was an interesting discussion on Five Live recently regarding the initial setting up of the Premier League. We were cited as one of the strongest voices calling for all money raised by tv revenues etc to stay within the Prem, and not get distributed throughout England.

 

It was suggested that we now might be regretting that stance a little...!

 

 

 

Stottie and co. would have been better redoubling their efforts in persuading JW Lees to allow new investment into BP when we still looked like a viable entity, and then going to seek it out.

 

It is their fault that we are in this position now.

[garcon]

The Radio Five show was last night. It concentrated on the plight of lower league football, looking at a number of cases (good and bad) such as Rotherham, Mansfield, Walsall, Crewe etc.

 

One of the guests was Guardian sports writer - and author of a couple of excellent books about the football business - David Conn.

 

The reference to Oldham wasn't quite as direct as metty says. (I appreciate it sounds like he heard this secondhand). The context was that when it comes to agreeing financial deals football club chairmen tend to look at things in a short termist way, and don't consider the possibility they may one day be relegated. Conn quoted Oldham as a founder member of the Premier League, who voted (with the rest of the founder members) for the new Premier League structure and financing. As Conn said, Stott probably didn't consider that Oldham might one day suffer from the deal he signed up to.

 

Much the same has happened in the past year. A new deal to distribute Premiership cash amongst the Football League clubs was agreed by the chairmen of the 72 clubs, providing a split heavily in favour of the Championship - 80% to the Championship, 12% to League One, 8% to League Two. Again the point was made that few if any of the current Championship club chairmen are likely to have considered the impact to their finances should they be relegated to League One ... going from a share of 80% to a share of 12%.

 

Crowds on the whole are still increasing in the football league, there is more money circulating within football than ever before, and yet running a lower league club with a positive balance sheet is getting more and more difficult.

 

People talk of "trickle down" from the Premiership. It does exist. But the increased costs (particularly players' wages and agents' fees) have trickled down alot more effectively than the increased revenue.

[EASTLEY]

Just a pointer here - Ian Stott was actually one of two original premiership chairmen who voted against the premier league in the first instance, however it was became clear that the premiership would go ahead and that if clubs in the top division didn't vote for it then they would be excluded from the new league.

 

Ian Stott then changed his vote along with the other chairman to vote in favour of the premier league as for Oldham to drop out after their investment in the ground would have seen the club in a perilous position

[garcon]

Didn't know that - interesting addendum Eastley.

[oafc0000]

Just a pointer here - Ian Stott was actually one of two original premiership chairmen who voted against the premier league in the first instance, however it was became clear that the premiership would go ahead and that if clubs in the top division didn't vote for it then they would be excluded from the new league.

 

Ian Stott then changed his vote along with the other chairman to vote in favour of the premier league as for Oldham to drop out after their investment in the ground would have seen the club in a perilous position

 

 

I dont remember this being the case.....