jsslatic Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 So does every Army world wide Andy, with exception to conscripts. The point is similar to suggesting that somebody takes up a position as a manager in full knowledge they will have to sack somebody one day. It's not the same, because it involves killing, not making people redundant. But like you said, agree to disagree. It's an issue on which I think once people have made their mind up, it's not going to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
help_shiny Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 See. I read your post and as I go along I'm thinking perhaps the terminology you used was out of step with your actual thinking... you make excellent (if unsubstantiated) points about the protesters being against 'everything this country stands for' (freedom of speech, democratic process and so forth) but then instead of ending it with "having a go at people..." you again bring race into it. Their race is insignificant. People opposing democracy in a violent manner need to be considered dangerous, but their colour or race should not be the significant characteristic you reference. :censored:! In Ireland over the last week extremists have killed several innocents. They're not described as white, they're not referenced by people as Christians... this despite the thing being about the variation within a SINGLE religious race. but but ....I brought race into it because you brought race into it. My original post might have been somewhat scattergun but I then only replied because you said I was racist. You're twisting things sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 but but ....I brought race into it because you brought race into it. My original post might have been somewhat scattergun but I then only replied because you said I was racist. You're twisting things sir! If you don't think your first post has a racist undertone then I don't think there's much point in debating it with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) If you don't think your first post has a racist undertone then I don't think there's much point in debating it with you. you need to seek help mate. seriously. i make your kind worse than those Islamic protesters. his first post - "http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7935679.stm Good old Britain, come here, abuse us, get saved by our presumably evil police and then sent on your merry way after ruining a lot of people's day. I wish we'd stop bending over and take a leaf from some of our continental chums - I cant imagine Le Flic's letting that one pass. Hell in a handcart! " on a par with mein kampf that is eh some proper wrong uns in this thread Edited March 11, 2009 by dfOAFC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfOAFC Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 oh dear, he's a mod. that's me gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 oh dear, he's a mod. that's me gone. This is a debate mate, I have no intention of getting rid of you! But I could! Anyway. The comment "coming here" alone has a racist undertone. How can it be infered from the video that those people were not English? The only 'evidence' that they are not English is that their skin is a different colour to the majority of the people who live in this country, or that they've proclaimed themselves to be Muslim, a religion different to the majority of people in this country. As a result the video at most makes them appear to be from a minority and nothing more. To therefor imply they've "come here" is making a negative assumption based on race and is thus racist. It's not on a par with Hitler, no, but the worst thing good people can do is stand by and watch bad things happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 This is a debate mate, I have no intention of getting rid of you! But I could! Anyway. The comment "coming here" alone has a racist undertone. How can it be infered from the video that those people were not English? The only 'evidence' that they are not English is that their skin is a different colour to the majority of the people who live in this country, or that they've proclaimed themselves to be Muslim, a religion different to the majority of people in this country. As a result the video at most makes them appear to be from a minority and nothing more. To therefor imply they've "come here" is making a negative assumption based on race and is thus racist. It's not on a par with Hitler, no, but the worst thing good people can do is stand by and watch bad things happen. <shakes head in utter disbelief at above comment> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yes you're wlecome and feel free to exercise your democratic right to attend anti-war protests. In this instance the protests were aimed at the lads putting their lives on the line. If people have a gripe then aim it at the Government who send these boys to war, not the lads that protect your freedom thus enabling you to protest. ...and everybody has agreed this is a good point before - so I don't think 3 pages of debate has added anything to it. I'm very much a supporter of our troops, a very good friend of mine has just come back for a week, and he's doing a great job for us. The posts following Joe's comment has just managed to highlight that we've a long way to go before true harmony, but there's a flip side to this: I'll post up later an incident in America about a White Pride march, the peaceful manner in which it was dispersed and the horrific aftermath... It makes for interesting reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 So does every Army world wide Andy, with exception to conscripts. The point is similar to suggesting that somebody takes up a position as a manager in full knowledge they will have to sack somebody one day. I don't suppose for one second this is the driving force behind their decision which is what was being suggested. :censored: it, let's do a poll for the forces and see how many say they joined up to fight a war they shouldn't be involved in. We're actually making pretty much the same point - people know the demands of whatever job they go into - in terms of hours, responsibilities and so on. If you join the Mafia as a hitman, you can't act shocked when they tell you to garrot someone in the back of a car. As for why people join the forces - I suppose like any other people, they have a whole set of reasons - career, excitement, patriotism etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardy Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 We're actually making pretty much the same point - people know the demands of whatever job they go into - in terms of hours, responsibilities and so on. If you join the Mafia as a hitman, you can't act shocked when they tell you to garrot someone in the back of a car. As for why people join the forces - I suppose like any other people, they have a whole set of reasons - career, excitement, patriotism etc Knobbing various ladies from all over the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Here is a post from another site which makes you think : Written by a Canadian Mother.... One of my sons serves in the army. He is still here in Canada. He called me yesterday to let me know how warm and welcoming people were to him, and his fellow soldiers, everywhere he goes, telling me how people shake their hands, and thank them for being willing to serve, and fight, for not only our own freedoms but so that others may have them also. But he also told me about an incident in the grocers' shop he stopped at yesterday, on his way home from the quarters. He said that ahead of several people in front of him stood a woman dressed in a burkha. He said when she got to the checkout she loudly remarked about the Canadian Flag lapel badge the cashier wore on her blouse. The cashier reached up and touched the badge, and said proudly," Yes, I always wear it and probably always will." The woman in the burkha then asked the cashier when she was going to stop bombing her countrymen, explaining that she was an Iraqi. A gentleman standing behind my son stepped forward, putting his arm around my son's shoulders, and nodding towards my son, said in a calm and gentle voice to the Iraqi woman. "Lady, hundreds of thousands of men and women like this young man have fought and died so that YOU could stand here, in MY country and accuse a check-out cashier of bombing YOUR countrymen. It is my belief that had you been this outspoken in YOUR own country, we wouldn't need to be there today. But, hey, if you have now learned how to speak out so loudly and clearly, I'll gladly buy you a ticket and pay your way back to Iraq so you can straighten out the mess in YOUR country that you are obviously here, in MY country to avoid." Everyone within hearing distance cheered! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Here is a post from another site which makes you think : Written by a Canadian Mother.... One of my sons serves in the army. He is still here in Canada. He called me yesterday to let me know how warm and welcoming people were to him, and his fellow soldiers, everywhere he goes, telling me how people shake their hands, and thank them for being willing to serve, and fight, for not only our own freedoms but so that others may have them also. But he also told me about an incident in the grocers' shop he stopped at yesterday, on his way home from the quarters. He said that ahead of several people in front of him stood a woman dressed in a burkha. He said when she got to the checkout she loudly remarked about the Canadian Flag lapel badge the cashier wore on her blouse. The cashier reached up and touched the badge, and said proudly," Yes, I always wear it and probably always will." The woman in the burkha then asked the cashier when she was going to stop bombing her countrymen, explaining that she was an Iraqi. A gentleman standing behind my son stepped forward, putting his arm around my son's shoulders, and nodding towards my son, said in a calm and gentle voice to the Iraqi woman. "Lady, hundreds of thousands of men and women like this young man have fought and died so that YOU could stand here, in MY country and accuse a check-out cashier of bombing YOUR countrymen. It is my belief that had you been this outspoken in YOUR own country, we wouldn't need to be there today. But, hey, if you have now learned how to speak out so loudly and clearly, I'll gladly buy you a ticket and pay your way back to Iraq so you can straighten out the mess in YOUR country that you are obviously here, in MY country to avoid." Everyone within hearing distance cheered! <shakes head in utter disbelief at above comment> That's the least relevent thing you could possibly have found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 <shakes head in utter disbelief at above comment> That's the least relevent thing you could possibly have found. Why is it irrelevant? Do emotional data not count in refusenik dreamland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 <shakes head in utter disbelief at above comment> That's the least relevent thing you could possibly have found. Ha ha. As for relevancy...well I understand the subject that we are primarily discussing is the 'right to protest', but I thought the story was quite fitting to the wider subject. What do others think ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Ha ha. As for relevancy...well I understand the subject that we are primarily discussing is the 'right to protest', but I thought the story was quite fitting to the wider subject. What do others think ? So referencing the actions of a single immigrant in another country is relevant to the actions of non-immigrants in this country? Yeh. Nailed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yard Dog Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 So referencing the actions of a single immigrant in another country is relevant to the actions of non-immigrants in this country? Yeh. Nailed on. This is not about race, creed or religion as you try to make out....this is about a set of bastards who wants to destroy us and our way of life. Well those protestors (almost certainly al-Muhajiroun) are certainly not fellow countrymen in my book. Technically they might be British Citizens, but anyone who spews the hatred like they do against our soldiers, values and way of life is the enemy, a traitor and about as far from being a Brit as they possibly can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I was going to write a piece about the Toledo riots - but what the hell, Foamy says it the way he sees it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 This is not about race, creed or religion as you try to make out....this is about a set of bastards who wants to destroy us and our way of life. Well those protestors (almost certainly al-Muhajiroun) are certainly not fellow countrymen in my book. Technically they might be British Citizens, but anyone who spews the hatred like they do against our soldiers, values and way of life is the enemy, a traitor and about as far from being a Brit as they possibly can be. But values and way of life are subjective. Me and you clearly have different values. Chaplain, as an example, is a religious man. I'm an athiest. Some are 'right wing' and some are 'left wing'. Britain, as I think you said earlier, is a successful meltingpot of hundreds of cultures and races, religions and morals. These people have chosen to protest the returning soldiers and you don't agree with that, fine, but that makes them no less a Briton than you or I. Agree to disagree? This will go in circles for a very long time otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 That's a whole bag of win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 These people have chosen to protest the returning soldiers and you don't agree with that, fine, but that makes them no less a Briton than you or I. By the sound of their rants they can't stand this country, it's government or the people who are helping keep peace both here and abroad. These people seem to me to be extremists, would you agree, or do you think they are just a bunch of british people peacfuly protesting about british soldiers.? Their actions were very provoking in my eyes, and could well have caused racial/religeous divisions. To be honest, i wouldn't have aired the protest, after all i do think that was the extremists plan in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 By the sound of their rants they can't stand this country, it's government or the people who are helping keep peace both here and abroad. I dislike many things about this country I can't stand the government I don't believe that the armed forces are doing anything to keep the peace here or abroad I do not however hate the armed forces personnel I guess that makes me 3'4 in agreement with them then? And I reckon you would get at least a half... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 By the sound of their rants they can't stand this country, it's government or the people who are helping keep peace both here and abroad. These people seem to me to be extremists, would you agree, or do you think they are just a bunch of british people peacfuly protesting about british soldiers.? Their actions were very provoking in my eyes, and could well have caused racial/religeous divisions. To be honest, i wouldn't have aired the protest, after all i do think that was the extremists plan in the first place. True, and I certainly see the irony. But two wrongs don't make a right. And just because they hate the place doesn't make it any more mine and yours than theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 I don't believe that the armed forces are doing anything to keep the peace here or abroad That's your opinion, and in my opinion you don't know what your talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scratch2000uk Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 And just because they hate the place doesn't make it any more mine and yours than theirs. Where did i say that.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) This is not about race, creed or religion as you try to make out....this is about a set of bastards who wants to destroy us and our way of life. Well those protestors (almost certainly al-Muhajiroun) are certainly not fellow countrymen in my book. Technically they might be British Citizens, but anyone who spews the hatred like they do against our soldiers, values and way of life is the enemy, a traitor and about as far from being a Brit as they possibly can be. Despite what they are trying to achieve they are in many ways a prime example of everything british i.e. to have the ability to criticise ones government. To stop them from saying it would actually mean destroying our own way of life. As Voltaire said (in a quote I have heard much this week) "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it". Edited March 12, 2009 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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