oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 It depends which reports you read, doesn't it? Very much so.... The down turn has at least slowed though... Thats for certain... Stock markets are looking better as well which is a more important factor at the moment... Then you have to take into account the fact that tiny glimmers of hope are seized on by both government and some sections of the media for their own reasons and that many analysts, not least those who called it right on the economy in the first place, are telling us that there is a long way to go yet. Some are maintaining that the uncharted waters we're in with regard to the emergency economic measures so far taken, and which are set to increase, will plunge the world into a depression, runaway inflation or something equally debilitating. Who knows? Your right, although the media tends to like more bad news to be honest... All you can say is that it would be a foolish man who bets on anything happening to BP soon (at least under the terms of the original plan.) Nothing will happen for years unless the plan is changed... The project needs a money man too fund it otherwise we will have to wait until the market goes up by about 20%... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Very much so.... The down turn has at least slowed though... Thats for certain... Stock markets are looking better as well which is a more important factor at the moment... Then you have to Your right, although the media tends to like more bad news to be honest... Nothing will happen for years unless the plan is changed... The project needs a money man too fund it otherwise we will have to wait until the market goes up by about 20%... It may be true that a large section of the media likes to emphasise the bad news, but there is also an urge to stress the supposed poitives so that confidence in the economy isn't drained further. The so-called dowturn will inevitably slow when money is being pumped into the economy at a greater rate than ever before and a summit of world leaders has just broken up with them making at least the pretence of knowing what they're doing. It could, as most analysis seems to agree, prove temporary. Whatever happens, it doesn't seem that many people quite grasp the magnitude of the trouble this club is in without a redeveloped BP. As I keep pointing out, it seems that the club itself recognises it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Whatever happens, it doesn't seem that many people quite grasp the magnitude of the trouble this club is in without a redeveloped BP. As I keep pointing out, it seems that the club itself recognises it. Without it there is no club... Simple... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singe Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Not sure if your arithmetic is right. Of our 3000 season tickets not all are full price, so income less than you assume. And the same applies to pay on the day. Season ticket money up front allows a little more interest on income, and less paid out on borrowings. Normal rider about extra income on pies and programmes etc. Good discussion ponit Pete, and yes my arithmatic may be slightly wonky, but hopefully not a million miles out. It is intersting that that you say about the pies and programmes. Normally, the profit on a pie would be about 50-70%, but the terms of the contract with the new supplier are needed. It is likely to be cost plus ie cost of operation plus a fee or fixed price with performance price guarantees. As cost plus contracts have halfed in recent years, I suspect it is a fixed price contract,especially as it has been renewed recently. It is not uncommon that catering contacts are geared so that the club does not take any risk and the contractor takes all the revenue, so it may be that any increase in pies sold will not affect the club revenue stream at all. I speak as a former area manager for a contract caterer, so this I am on firmer ground. Programmes are a small part of the revene per game i would have thought, and a smallish profit At a complete guess, I'd say 25% of the attendance buy on, so that is an increase of approx. 1,000 programmes with the new crowd figures say, or at 30% profit £900 per game or £20,000 per season. Obviously it could well be more, but the figures for catering and programmes are small compared to bums on seats and sposnorship. Edited April 6, 2009 by singe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty doesn't know Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 does anyone know why that where this stand will be built there is what looks to be graffitti on the remains of the new start mortgages stand? it looks soo bad and i think it is embarrasing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Nothing will happen for years unless the plan is changed... The project needs a money man too fund it otherwise we will have to wait until the market goes up by about 20%... I think this is the only way the project will ever get complete to be honest. I can see us playing in a 3 sided stadium for many years to come. If the economy does recover and begins to grow again, then hopefully the development of Manchester will continue , which might have a knock on effect and push up values in Oldham, but i am sure transport links would need to be improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyGermanLatic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Does anyone feel this was a bad idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Does anyone feel this was a bad idea? What exactly was a bad idea ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) but i am sure transport links would need to be improved. Sorry but we rejected the congestion charge Oldham is set to suffer for years to come as the metro link skirts around the edges... Awesome.... Edited April 6, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyGermanLatic Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 What exactly was a bad idea ? Knocking down the stand at this time ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) Knocking down the stand at this time ... Oh yes... No doubting that... Puts in the postion now where we have no choice but to build a new stand while faced with serious econmic challenges... Wasnt the brightist move to knock something down while not being in a postion to carry out the planned work... One of the few own goals scored by the TTA Edited April 6, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty doesn't know Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Oh yes... No doubting that... Puts in the postion now where we have no choice but to build a new stand while faced with serious econmic challenges... Wasnt the brightist move to knock something down while not being in a postion to carry out the planned work... One of the few own goals scored by the TTA i think it was a good idea because it was an eyesore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Oh yes... No doubting that... Puts in the postion now where we have no choice but to build a new stand while faced with serious econmic challenges... Wasnt the brightist move to knock something down while not being in a postion to carry out the planned work... One of the few own goals scored by the TTA All having the Lookers there now would mean would be that we were losing more money through higher operating costs and repairs, surely not the best way to getting us into a position to begin the rebuilding? I am glad that we have taken a bold, if slightly minging looking, step to cut our cloth accordingly and weather the storm. It is a bit sore on the pride seeing our ground looking, frankly a bit :censored:ty, but lets take that on the chin as it's for the best for the club. Regarding the economic climate, I wouldn't be too hopefull that anything is going to change in the near future in terms of our development. It's not exactly about economic growth - it's the value of land that you can build housing on. House prices fall as a lag behind rising unemployment, and the witchdoctors in the Treasury have just changed their mind and reckon the economy will contract by 3% year on year. This means a lot of people losing their jobs. Even when things pick up you aren't in a position to buy if you have been out of work for a while, especially now you need savings. We need to stick in for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Regarding the economic climate, I wouldn't be too hopefull that anything is going to change in the near future in terms of our development. It's not exactly about economic growth - it's the value of land that you can build housing on. House prices fall as a lag behind rising unemployment, and the witchdoctors in the Treasury have just changed their mind and reckon the economy will contract by 3% year on year. This means a lot of people losing their jobs. Even when things pick up you aren't in a position to buy if you have been out of work for a while, especially now you need savings. We need to stick in for the long haul. I agree, but I despair when I think that we are already a more than a decade and at least one division behind clubs in similar-size towns that managed to get their acts together and build new stadiums or redevelop existing ones. When it looks increasingly likely that this is ground that we will never recover, I dread to think about where the current predicament will deliver us to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I agree, but I despair when I think that we are already a more than a decade and at least one division behind clubs in similar-size towns that managed to get their acts together and build new stadiums or redevelop existing ones. When it looks increasingly likely that this is ground that we will never recover, I dread to think about where the current predicament will deliver us to. The one thing I took from my brief and doomed career foray into Chartered Accountancy (apart from an ongoing fascination with Double Entry) was the concept of Future Relevant Cashflow. This is the solid bedrock of any business decisions - it doesn't matter what you have spent on what you own, or how you have come into the situation you are in now, or how you got to be there. You can only make decisions for the future. Not to say of course that you can't learn from experience, but all of the time we might spend wishing that we had built in 1991 is wasted time. The world hasd changed. Bolton, Blackburn and co did the right thing, we did not. It's gone. What is the best we can do from where we are now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 All having the Lookers there now would mean would be that we were losing more money through higher operating costs and repairs, surely not the best way to getting us into a position to begin the rebuilding? I am glad that we have taken a bold, if slightly minging looking, step to cut our cloth accordingly and weather the storm. It is a bit sore on the pride seeing our ground looking, frankly a bit :censored:ty, but lets take that on the chin as it's for the best for the club. I find it hard to accept the costs where that high... What it has done is make BP an even less attrative place to come and watch the game... Also a missing stand = increased wind... Not nice for us or the players trying to kick a ball straight... Regarding the economic climate, I wouldn't be too hopefull that anything is going to change in the near future in terms of our development. It's not exactly about economic growth - it's the value of land that you can build housing on. House prices fall as a lag behind rising unemployment, and the witchdoctors in the Treasury have just changed their mind and reckon the economy will contract by 3% year on year. This means a lot of people losing their jobs. Even when things pick up you aren't in a position to buy if you have been out of work for a while, especially now you need savings. We need to stick in for the long haul. Agreed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 i think it was a good idea because it was an eyesore ?? Compared to no stand ?? Ok... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_bro Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 Do you really think a 10,000 capacity Boundary Park would be full each week if we were in the Championship? A problem TTA will have with a new stand is empty seats - whatever league we're in - and they will almost certainly have to risk doing a Bradford/Huddersfield and selling £100 season tickets if they expect to fill the place. True. What a terrible indictment on the Oldham public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 I find it hard to accept the costs where that high They are certainly more than nothing. Staffing costs are clearly less, and the old stand was falling to bits, it must have cost ever more to keep it running. The Royle bar without electricity a few times showed what a state it was in, it would have been a total waste to invest in it in the current climate IMO. I think we just have to soldier on with it. We've played some decent football with 3 sides and wind, much as we've played some dreadful stuff at times with 4 sides and lovely weather. Time to make ouit own luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 (edited) They are certainly more than nothing. Staffing costs are clearly less, and the old stand was falling to bits, it must have cost ever more to keep it running. The Royle bar without electricity a few times showed what a state it was in, it would have been a total waste to invest in it in the current climate IMO. I think we just have to soldier on with it. We've played some decent football with 3 sides and wind, much as we've played some dreadful stuff at times with 4 sides and lovely weather. Time to make ouit own luck. Staff costs where always covered by the people using it... How much does it cost for a couple of stewards and a couple of brew / bar girls at end of the day... There where no major staffing costs for that stand... As for investing in it... I doubt the mataince costs where high either... Granted higher than nothing but on that basis we could probably manage with two stands so why not drop the chaddy now instead of waiting... Groud looks awful...and alot of people enjoyed sitting in that stand and hate the rocky... Wouldnt be surprised if its cost us/going to cost us some supporters... Anyway, I will leave it there because I dont think where going to agree Edited April 6, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 The one thing I took from my brief and doomed career foray into Chartered Accountancy (apart from an ongoing fascination with Double Entry) was the concept of Future Relevant Cashflow. This is the solid bedrock of any business decisions - it doesn't matter what you have spent on what you own, or how you have come into the situation you are in now, or how you got to be there. You can only make decisions for the future. Not to say of course that you can't learn from experience, but all of the time we might spend wishing that we had built in 1991 is wasted time. The world hasd changed. Bolton, Blackburn and co did the right thing, we did not. It's gone. What is the best we can do from where we are now? Fair point, but like I said, as a result of the club's paralysis then we've lost ground that it no longer seems possible to recover, and the current impasse suggests we'll lose yet more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (edited) As for investing in it... I doubt the mataince costs where high either... No idea what the business rates are for a football ground, but if you can reduce them by a quarter that would be a decent annual saving. I believe the club said that the stand needed £180k in repairs - as a matter of urgency. Sounds like part of that would be a rewire and I don't doubt the safety authorities would have layered on numerous other expenses that are included in the cost quoted, but will add nothing to future income. Better to stick that £180k to one side for when the rest of the finance is in place to replace the stand. Offset by a modest reduction in following as a result of demolition. It is, however, embarrassing to read comments from Peterborough fans about BP being a dump. So London Road is the Ritz by comparison??? If Latics are to attract a new set of fans in significant numbers, they have to build a new stand. Doing so is expensive, but failure to do so is probably the slow demise of the club. I would have thought the cost of the stand alone (without the other developments) would be around £2m. How nice it would be if the owners of the club (TTA, Wardle or whoever) could find this money now, get the stand and its facilities in place ahead of the 2010/11 season and then get on with the rest of the developments as the economy picks up. It's a true optimist who can see that happening. Edited April 7, 2009 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boundaryblue80 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 It is, however, embarrassing to read comments from Peterborough fans about BP being a dump. So London Road is the Ritz by comparison??? Them wankers are getting far above their station! It wasn't so long ago they were in dire straits and were outside the club protesting. Add to the fact, the Ron Manager fiasco. What is that...less than 5yrs ago??? It does pain me (and I feel so bad for TTA) to see a club like Peterborough overtake us in the fashion they have! I suppose TTA can all but hope that someday soon they'll find that missing ingredient. PS Can I just point out too that Posh only got 5,500 the other week for a fixture and they've got a potential huge catchment area compared to us...at present, there's little different between us and them, bar a manager (god I hate finishing this sentence) who seems to know what he's doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 bar a manager (god I hate finishing this sentence) who seems to know what he's doing. I hope that was more of a poke at Sheridan than Royle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted April 7, 2009 Share Posted April 7, 2009 (an ongoing fascination with Double Entry) Dirty boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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