Corporal_Jones Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 No, i'm not just referring to the players. I'm talking about the overall situation on and off the pitch last season - which has been discussed over and over and doesn't need delving into again. I'm talking about the desire and hunger to play for the manager and the club, which many had seemed to have lost. Although i'm fairly sure you know which hunger I was talking about - nowt to do with crisps or lager Without the quality you may not achieve promotion - without the respect of the manager/teamates you'd achieve even less. DP will bring respect and discipline back into the team and hopefully assemble a band of players pulling in the same direction. i know this kind of thought pattern is not generally your thing corp, but maybe, just maybe, there are fans who would feel much better should this happen Have no fear: I'd feel better if it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 To be fair to Latics we have had some bad luck - the season with Dowie that culminated in the play-offs we were horrendously hard done to with injuries. Then Shez's first season seemed to come unstuck with Porter deciding that he wanted to leave in January... The issue is that we had the Dowie season then went bust, then Portergate ripped up the team that got to the play-offs. Last season was a disaster when the league was there for the taking, and the off pitch issues that arose were unacceptable. Somewhere along the line we seem to have lost sight of the fact that the keys our successful seasons have been built on are; excellent fitness levels, team-spirit and trying to keep the ball. Last season we looked only fit enough to play in bursts, the team was divided and we went long and gave the ball away far too often. The way I see it if we can get the players properly fit and motivated then we have some aces in this squad. I'd like to see Lee trying to take the playmaker role alongside Worthington who should bring a bit of beast into the midfield, and then look to hit our best players who play down the flanks. We do that and get a target man in then I think we have enough of the ingredients that have given other teams success at this level. All big if's and but's though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Oh, and I don't think we've ever properly replaced hard-working, "good honest professionals" like G-Mac and Paul Warne. Guys like that are the platform that quality players operate on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 This is one of the strangest statements I've ever read on here. We are by definition in the same mire when you consider that we are exactly where we were twelve years ago with no apparent strategy for progressing. Appointing another manager who sounds like he knows what he's talking about-and I share that opinion of him-and a good record doesn't amount to any kind of strategy; Warnock was exactly the same (he actually had a better record despite a reputation for unattractive football), and similar things have been said about every manager who has been brought in. What exactly has been learnt? Similarly: 'The club know exactly were it needs to be for promotion, its just gathering the ingredients needs to make the success that is proving difficult.' We all know exactly where we need to be for promotion. We need to be either first or second on the last day of the season, or at least one goal up when the final whistle blows in the play-off final. The 'ingredients' for achieving this, however, seem to change with the wind: tear up another playing squad here, sack another manager there and then repeat the process. It'll all be financed by the stadium redevelopment, but not yet (not for a very long time, actually, if ever), so in the meantime we'll replace quality with endeavour and hope for the best. As I said, I'd like to rejoin the believers, but it's proving difficult. You dont want to believe, that is not that same has struggling to believe. The club continue each season to add to its budgets dispite the crowds and general revenue becoming less. The strategy for progressing changes agreed, but we as fans are responsible for that in a small way, we vote our frustrations about the team but not attending games, attendances fall so managers lose there jobs. The club commercially are behind because at the end of the day the club dont have that much to sell !! The teams success increase sponsorships, this hasnt hapened for a while now and companies are harder to find with a supportive MD Ingredients I refer to is experience, experience from TTA to appoint a Manager with the ability and all round quality. Talbot wasnt the right man, neither was Ronnie and to an extent neither was Shez but IMO and that of other TTA are making better choices in each appointment of a manager. I think and believe that you C_J have some idea of the complications and problems that surround modern day football and running a club of the statue of Oldham Athletic. I also believe that you have an opinion of people in place at OAFC that is negative and unconstructive due to facts and misguarded knowledge you have heard. The club isnt a premiership club, the owners are not Billionaire the town of Oldham is on its Harm the Worlds economics is lower than a date with Jodie Marsh .... What you have to believe is that we have a team, we are competing at a level we can sustain to do, the owners are not throwing all there eggs into one basket and going for broke and the club is learning from its Mistakes.. Start with that and enjoy still being a football fans of OAFC ... some fans no longer have that luxury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 To be fair to Latics we have had some bad luck - the season with Dowie that culminated in the play-offs we were horrendously hard done to with injuries. Then Shez's first season seemed to come unstuck with Porter deciding that he wanted to leave in January... That had a lot more to do with the fact he was playing with a very serious knee injury than him wanting to leave. The latter half of both seasons Porter was having injections before every game just to get through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Maybe so, but I was really referring to the loss of form and team cohesion in the new year. Something went wrong because we went from a team that was spanking everyone, playing terrific football and celebrating together, to a side that began to slide and that just looked less sure of itself - given the rumours that have abounded since I can't see that his obvious desire to leave had nothing to do with it. I might be wrong, but from the outside looking in that is what it looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Maybe so, but I was really referring to the loss of form and team cohesion in the new year. Something went wrong because we went from a team that was spanking everyone, playing terrific football and celebrating together, to a side that began to slide and that just looked less sure of itself - given the rumours that have abounded since I can't see that his obvious desire to leave had nothing to do with it. I might be wrong, but from the outside looking in that is what it looks like. I don't think he ever had a desire to leave. I think if we'd offered a deal comparable to the one he got he would have stayed. I don't think he ever had in his head a determination to leave. And I agree that performances fell in the new year, but that can't all fall on his shoulders. If I remember right (looks at Prozac for stats) he didn't even play that much in the new year because of his knee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De_La_Vega Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Like I say, I might have been putting 2 + 2 and getting 4. It just seems that if he's had a conversation with Hardy after the Plymouth offer, where they've discussed the club not selling him as long as he promises not to go to Scotland, then his head may not be entirely on the task in hand. When he played after that towards the end of the season he still looked good, but the team spirit and confidence went. It just seems too convenient for there to be no correlation, but then stranger things have happened and I might be wrong - if you know better then I bow to your superior knowledge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Like I say, I might have been putting 2 + 2 and getting 4. It just seems that if he's had a conversation with Hardy after the Plymouth offer, where they've discussed the club not selling him as long as he promises not to go to Scotland, then his head may not be entirely on the task in hand. When he played after that towards the end of the season he still looked good, but the team spirit and confidence went. It just seems too convenient for there to be no correlation, but then stranger things have happened and I might be wrong - if you know better then I bow to your superior knowledge! I agree it had an effect. Of course losing one of your best players will hurt. I just don't think it was in his head enough to be a significant factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellys_discopants Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 And I agree that performances fell in the new year, but that can't all fall on his shoulders. If I remember right (looks at Prozac for stats) he didn't even play that much in the new year because of his knee? Didnt his family suffer a berevement aswell around that time, just before the Wolves game if i remember rightly?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stebuzz Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 :: what is the general view, on what would be classed as success, next season. ie new manager, budget,and players . its going to be tough to get into the top 6 with teams like norwich, southampton, charlton, dons and leeds, not to mention millwall and huddersfield. but if the right players are signed, we could be the peterboro of next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Didnt his family suffer a berevement aswell around that time, just before the Wolves game if i remember rightly?! His dad died no? I remember he had to come back from that game like you say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardlelatic Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 His dad died no? I remember he had to come back from that game like you say. Nope it was his Grandfather who dies on the friday before we played at Wolves so he missed the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty doesn't know Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Scunthorpe this season, were not the best squad of players in our division but the management team made them hungry for success, gave them a drive to be winners ....... Leeds, great squad but the players didnt want it enough.... If a young player isnt hungry for being in the first team and collecting their win bonus, I dont want them in the team ** In this context hungry = passion, ambition, zeal, aspiration The management this season is more PROFESSIONAL if players dont take there game and career seriously, a loan move or Transfer will be on the cards Top 8 next season will be the target... what you call "proffesional" is not enough and every player with every club is "hungry, has passion, ambition, zeal and aspiration" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Anything except promotion is failure, although I guess thats the same for the majority of the clubs in this division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlossopLatic Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 what you call "proffesional" is not enough and every player with every club is "hungry, has passion, ambition, zeal and aspiration" Maybe so but some are more hungry, have more passion, have more zeal and aspiration than others. Back to the original question abit of a strange question to ask at this stage when we don't know how strong or weak our side is next season ask this question in late July early August and we can have a proper discussuion about it right now know one has a clue what our starting 11 will be come august. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 To be fair to Latics we have had some bad luck - the season with Dowie that culminated in the play-offs we were horrendously hard done to with injuries. Then Shez's first season seemed to come unstuck with Porter deciding that he wanted to leave in January... The issue is that we had the Dowie season then went bust, then Portergate ripped up the team that got to the play-offs. Last season was a disaster when the league was there for the taking, and the off pitch issues that arose were unacceptable. Somewhere along the line we seem to have lost sight of the fact that the keys our successful seasons have been built on are; excellent fitness levels, team-spirit and trying to keep the ball. Last season we looked only fit enough to play in bursts, the team was divided and we went long and gave the ball away far too often. Apart from the injuries, that can all be considered incompetence rather than bad luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Anything except promotion is failure, although I guess thats the same for the majority of the clubs in this division. Nail on the head at last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaticsPete Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Apart from the injuries, that can all be considered incompetence rather than bad luck. Who was incompetent with Portergate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackey Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Who was incompetent with Portergate? And how can incomptence be responsible for an injury list that was longer than my arm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) You dont want to believe, that is not that same has struggling to believe. The club continue each season to add to its budgets dispite the crowds and general revenue becoming less. The strategy for progressing changes agreed, but we as fans are responsible for that in a small way, we vote our frustrations about the team but not attending games, attendances fall so managers lose there jobs. The club commercially are behind because at the end of the day the club dont have that much to sell !! The teams success increase sponsorships, this hasnt hapened for a while now and companies are harder to find with a supportive MD Ingredients I refer to is experience, experience from TTA to appoint a Manager with the ability and all round quality. Talbot wasnt the right man, neither was Ronnie and to an extent neither was Shez but IMO and that of other TTA are making better choices in each appointment of a manager. I think and believe that you C_J have some idea of the complications and problems that surround modern day football and running a club of the statue of Oldham Athletic. I also believe that you have an opinion of people in place at OAFC that is negative and unconstructive due to facts and misguarded knowledge you have heard. The club isnt a premiership club, the owners are not Billionaire the town of Oldham is on its Harm the Worlds economics is lower than a date with Jodie Marsh .... What you have to believe is that we have a team, we are competing at a level we can sustain to do, the owners are not throwing all there eggs into one basket and going for broke and the club is learning from its Mistakes.. Start with that and enjoy still being a football fans of OAFC ... some fans no longer have that luxury Of course I want to believe that the club can be successful; I just don't see many signs of the necessary ingredients being put in place. 'The club continue each season to add to its budgets dispite the crowds and general revenue becoming less,' you say but how would you know this? It's the opposite of what we've been told regarding this season for a start. Much of what you say simply illustrates the trap the club finds itself in. Of course income will fall if people stop attending games, but despite this the club has to be successful in order to...attract people to games. As has been pointed out many times before, other clubs in towns not unlike Oldham manage to achieve a remarkable amount of success. They managed to overcome all the problems you highlight. Why does Oldham have to be different? As for 'the people in place at OAFC,' I have no idea what they are like as individuals; I'm sure they're mostly honourable. However, their record speaks for itself. Edited June 7, 2009 by wardlelatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Who was incompetent with Portergate? I don't know. What I do know is that other clubs manage to keep hold of their main strikers at a crucial stage of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 And how can incomptence be responsible for an injury list that was longer than my arm? I think you'll find that I said apart from injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch_KTF Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Of course I want to believe that the club can be successful; I just don't see many signs of the necessary ingredients being put in place. 'The club continue each season to add to its budgets dispite the crowds and general revenue becoming less,' you say but how would you know this? It's the opposite of what we've been told regarding this season for a start. Much of what you say simply illustrates the trap the club finds itself in. Of course income will fall if people stop attending games, but despite this the club has to be successful in order to...attract people to games. As has been pointed out many times before, other clubs in towns not unlike Oldham manage to achieve a remarkable amount of success. They managed to overcome all the problems you highlight. Why does Oldham have to be different? As for 'the people in place at OAFC,' I have no idea what they are like as individuals; I'm sure they're mostly honourable. However, their record speaks for itself. So are you Inspiral Carpet reincarnated then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 So are you Inspiral Carpet reincarnated then? What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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