Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) That was a lot of people (me included.) But not most. You what? Most of our hardcore fanbase were on that march and you know it. How many do you reckon it was? About 200 people? You don't half know how to come undone. Edited December 11, 2009 by Frankly Mr Shankly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You got me there! You're talking about 51% of people on every issue. It was about 1500 from an home crowd averaging over 5000. Some of the protestors were lapsed fans, as well, including one who came along with me. That's a significant number, granted, but not a majority-and not, I'd wager, a figure we'll see again on anything similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You what? Most of our hardcore fanbase were on that march and you know it. How many do you reckon it was? About 200 people? You don't half know how to come undone. It was 1500-ish, like I say. I wonder how many of them are still attending BP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 People protest all the time, even when they know they are not going to change the big picture but they may just have an effect on the way things are done going forward !! See examples above People do. but, as I said, not most people. The people in your photos are not representative of most people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 It was 1500-ish, like I say. I wonder how many of them are still attending BP? Yeah, me too. But surely a move from our traditional and spiritual home should garner a fair amount of opposition, if it was something people felt strongly about that is? Especially when many constantly bang the drum on here yet think it's pointless banging it directly to people that matter; The club. Anyway, it's not even you that grates with me, it's people dead set against Failsworth (and there are some), yet don't have the backbone to confront the club about it with their fears. A few were there last night with concerns, but on the whole most were OK with a move to Failsworth and just wanted answers on other issues. Anyway, off to bed. Those people know who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorrro Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Those people know who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yeah, me too. But surely a move from our traditional and spiritual home should garner a fair amount of opposition, if it was something people felt strongly about that is? Especially when many constantly bang the drum on here yet think it's pointless banging it directly to people that matter; The club. Anyway, it's not even you that grates with me, it's people dead set against Failsworth (and there are some), yet don't have the backbone to confront the club about it with their fears. A few were there last night with concerns, but on the whole most were OK with a move to Failsworth and just wanted answers on other issues. Anyway, off to bed. Those people know who they are. I suspect that, for some, Failsworth is the final kick in the teeth. Sure enough, we marched for the BP redevelopment but look where it got us in the end. And then there's the other fiascos on and off the pitch. It all brings us back to the question of what, exactly, is supposed to change just because you voice your concerns to club officials. They set the ball rolling on Failsworth some time ago. They're not going to abort it because some fans don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankly Mr Shankly Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I don't mean you Stripey Nige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wozz_oafc Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 For what its worth I think if people really thought the club was getting shafted in any way over the move to Failsworth there would be a protest against it no matter how futile. I understand why some may be disappointed in the scale of the new project, however, I would like to think everyone could come together and see this as a fresh start away from BP, however big or small, which I feel is holding the club back now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yeah, me too. But surely a move from our traditional and spiritual home should garner a fair amount of opposition, if it was something people felt strongly about that is? Especially when many constantly bang the drum on here yet think it's pointless banging it directly to people that matter; The club. Anyway, it's not even you that grates with me, it's people dead set against Failsworth (and there are some), yet don't have the backbone to confront the club about it with their fears. A few were there last night with concerns, but on the whole most were OK with a move to Failsworth and just wanted answers on other issues. Anyway, off to bed. Those people know who they are. This for me is now probably the key issue. The scale and facilities etc. I think it's fairly apparent that we ARE moving and there is very little that can be done to change that. I'd like to stay at BP and see it redeveloped, but we've put ourselves in to a situation where something has to happen to improve the matchday experience (over and above the team pulling their finger out) and as Ian Hill pointed out on Wednesday, there isn't really another viable site in the borough, so it's stay at BP or move to Failsworth. The 18 acre BP site isn't going to be able to provide the levels of ongoing income that a 30 acre site can potentially provide, so I can see sense in the move, even if the location isn't ideal (something which SC himself admitted on Wed). What IS important now is trying to make sure that the club get the stadium and facilities right. I personally feel that a capacity of 12,000 is too small, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. However, if enough fans felt the same way, these meetings are exactly where they should be going along and voicing their concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 This for me is now probably the key issue. The scale and facilities etc. I think it's fairly apparent that we ARE moving and there is very little that can be done to change that. I'd like to stay at BP and see it redeveloped, but we've put ourselves in to a situation where something has to happen to improve the matchday experience (over and above the team pulling their finger out) and as Ian Hill pointed out on Wednesday, there isn't really another viable site in the borough, so it's stay at BP or move to Failsworth. The 18 acre BP site isn't going to be able to provide the levels of ongoing income that a 30 acre site can potentially provide, so I can see sense in the move, even if the location isn't ideal (something which SC himself admitted on Wed). What IS important now is trying to make sure that the club get the stadium and facilities right. I personally feel that a capacity of 12,000 is too small, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. However, if enough fans felt the same way, these meetings are exactly where they should be going along and voicing their concerns. Spot on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafcprozac Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Yeah, me too. But surely a move from our traditional and spiritual home should garner a fair amount of opposition, if it was something people felt strongly about that is? Especially when many constantly bang the drum on here yet think it's pointless banging it directly to people that matter; The club. Anyway, it's not even you that grates with me, it's people dead set against Failsworth (and there are some), yet don't have the backbone to confront the club about it with their fears. A few were there last night with concerns, but on the whole most were OK with a move to Failsworth and just wanted answers on other issues. Anyway, off to bed. Those people know who they are. As I said to Coco last week, my main concerns have been about the ownership of the ground and the 'extra-facilities' and just where the profits go, whether we will end up homeless and why BP has been left to rot. There wasn't a lot to be learnt the other night and tbh I've never been that bothered over the capacity (except for the 10,000 mentioned in the summer then the rumour reared it's head again) Wherever Latics play I will follow them, however my biggest concerns have been the club losing it's own identity. The coverage from the Forum the other night was pretty good, and for now I'm prepared to wait and see what happens. My main gripe is and always has been that with anything that Latics announce - I will believe it when I see it. If TTA deliver a new stadium with the extra-facilities, I will applaud them. As for their answers the other night, I feel a little more encouraged and unless we are prepared to call them liars, we have to trust them for now and see what is announced at Phase 2. If I can make that Forum I will do, depending on my teaching and Uni commitments from January... What does disappoint me is the defeatist attitude of many Latics fans, if enough people wanted to affect a change of heart from the owners then I do still think it would be possible to stay at a down-scaled BP. Instead the fanbase is fractured and this apathy will see the move happen. Perhaps it is time that bridges were built between fans and owners and we concentrate on getting out of the situation we find ourselves on the pitch. From Corney's comments the other night it is clear that we all want what is best for OAFC, there are still many issues I'm not happy about but it is time to pull together and hopefully we will see results on and off the field. Edited December 11, 2009 by oafcprozac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 As I said to Coco last week, my main concerns have been about the ownership of the ground and the 'extra-facilities' and just where the profits go, whether we will end up homeless and why BP has been left to rot. There wasn't a lot to be learnt the other night and tbh I've never been that bothered over the capacity (except for the 10,000 mentioned in the summer then the rumour reared it's head again) Wherever Latics play I will follow them, however my biggest concerns have been the club losing it's own identity. The coverage from the Forum the other night was pretty good, and for now I'm prepared to wait and see what happens. My main gripe is and always has been that with anything that Latics announce - I will believe it when I see it. If TTA deliver a new stadium with the extra-facilities, I will applaud them. As for their answers the other night, I feel a little more encouraged and unless we are prepared to call them liars, we have to trust them for now and see what is announced at Phase 2. If I can make that Forum I will do, depending on my teaching and Uni commitments from January... What does disappoint me is the defeatist attitude of many Latics fans, if enough people wanted to affect a change of heart from the owners then I do still think it would be possible to stay at a down-scaled BP. Instead the fanbase is fractured and this apathy will see the move happen. Perhaps it is time that bridges were built between fans and owners and we concentrate on getting out of the situation we find ourselves on the pitch. From Corney's comments the other night it is clear that we all want what is best for OAFC, there are still many issues I'm not happy about but it is time to pull together and hopefully we will see results on and off the field. Good post Prozac. Just to add I don't know if you picked this up from the Forum so apologies if I'm going over old ground, but the club will own what is now the British Aerospace land and the council will retain the rest. The council bit, which is where the stadium will be built, will be leased back to the club on a 99 year lease type arrangement like many people do with their houses. The club will own the stadium itself. I think from what was said, we can forget any idea of staying at BP....... maybe if Failsworth falls through some small development of BP would take place, but I think under those circumstances we would be looking at an 8K - 10K stadium (my words not from a club source). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_R Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Yeah, me too. But surely a move from our traditional and spiritual home should garner a fair amount of opposition, if it was something people felt strongly about that is? Especially when many constantly bang the drum on here yet think it's pointless banging it directly to people that matter; The club. Anyway, it's not even you that grates with me, it's people dead set against Failsworth (and there are some), yet don't have the backbone to confront the club about it with their fears. A few were there last night with concerns, but on the whole most were OK with a move to Failsworth and just wanted answers on other issues. Anyway, off to bed. Those people know who they are. I can agree with some of that, but I think that the reason many of those who strongly object to Failsworth aren't doing much about other than moan and groan on here is because we are being told that there is no option but to move. There's no alternative site, BP can't be redeveloped etc, it's got to be, and is going to be, Failsworth. Like it or lump it. You can call it a lack of backbone if you like, but many see (rightly or wrongly) that it's a fight they can't win. There may be alternatives, but we are told not so that's what we have to believe. For example, i asked the question as to whether there was a fall back plan if the move fell through for whatever reason and the answer in no uncertain terms was 'No'. To be honest that was exactly the answer I expected, because if they'd have said "Well if Failsworth doesn't get through planning we'll have to look at a scaled down version of the BP redevelopment" then people would say "Well, why the hell aren't we doing that now?" In my opinion, If Failsworth doesn't come off for whatetever reason ( and seeing as every other plan we've had has fallen by the wayside I wouldn't be surprised) then TTA would at least be duty bound to build a replacement for the Lookers stand as they knocked it down without good reason in the first place, but at the moment they're telling us that won't happen, so it's not an option for people to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeslover Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I think the march was 1500 as counted by Huddersfield stewards c2006(?). I wouldn’t be surprised if a fair number weren’t regulars then or now, I think it picked up a lot of apathy towards the state of the town in general, the shabbiness of the council, and in the case of some of the guys near me concerns regarding the cultural homogeneity of the area. It is just much more natural to the feeling as a fan to go out in support of the club against the enemy as opposed to perceiving the enemy to be within the club, unless apparently that enemy is Richard Butcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 This for me is now probably the key issue. The scale and facilities etc. I think it's fairly apparent that we ARE moving and there is very little that can be done to change that. I'd like to stay at BP and see it redeveloped, but we've put ourselves in to a situation where something has to happen to improve the matchday experience (over and above the team pulling their finger out) and as Ian Hill pointed out on Wednesday, there isn't really another viable site in the borough, so it's stay at BP or move to Failsworth. The 18 acre BP site isn't going to be able to provide the levels of ongoing income that a 30 acre site can potentially provide, so I can see sense in the move, even if the location isn't ideal (something which SC himself admitted on Wed). What IS important now is trying to make sure that the club get the stadium and facilities right. I personally feel that a capacity of 12,000 is too small, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. However, if enough fans felt the same way, these meetings are exactly where they should be going along and voicing their concerns. I still don't see why, though. What's gained by voicing your concerns when, as you say above, it's a done deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corporal_Jones Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I can agree with some of that, but I think that the reason many of those who strongly object to Failsworth aren't doing much about other than moan and groan on here is because we are being told that there is no option but to move. There's no alternative site, BP can't be redeveloped etc, it's got to be, and is going to be, Failsworth. Like it or lump it. You can call it a lack of backbone if you like, but many see (rightly or wrongly) that it's a fight they can't win. There may be alternatives, but we are told not so that's what we have to believe. For example, i asked the question as to whether there was a fall back plan if the move fell through for whatever reason and the answer in no uncertain terms was 'No'. To be honest that was exactly the answer I expected, because if they'd have said "Well if Failsworth doesn't get through planning we'll have to look at a scaled down version of the BP redevelopment" then people would say "Well, why the hell aren't we doing that now?" In my opinion, If Failsworth doesn't come off for whatetever reason ( and seeing as every other plan we've had has fallen by the wayside I wouldn't be surprised) then TTA would at least be duty bound to build a replacement for the Lookers stand as they knocked it down without good reason in the first place, but at the moment they're telling us that won't happen, so it's not an option for people to think about. That's just it. All the power and money is on one side. The choices are to bury your doubts and hope for the best, grumble into your beer or moan about whatever aspect of the plan most bothers you on here. They're not choices at all really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danoafc Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I still don't see why, though. What's gained by voicing your concerns when, as you say above, it's a done deal? Corp, you know my general stance on this. I'd like nothing more than to see BP redeveloped, I think we ALL would, but it's not gonna happen is it? I was of the opinion that there was nothing Joe Average could do about any of this. This may well still prove to be the case. The site is a done deal I think. The stadium design/capacity/facilities may well be a done deal too, but while there is a chance fan power may (even if only a small amount) have some influence, I think we should at least try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Just to add I don't know if you picked this up from the Forum so apologies if I'm going over old ground, but the club will own what is now the British Aerospace land and the council will retain the rest. The council bit, which is where the stadium will be built, will be leased back to the club on a 99 year lease type arrangement like many people do with their houses. The club will own the stadium itself. Really ? It seems TTA's other company will own the British Aerospace land ? http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...st&p=339318 Edited December 11, 2009 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 That's just it. All the power and money is on one side. In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsleftfoot Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) Really ? It seems TTA's other company will own the British Aerospace land ? http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...st&p=339318 I wouldn't be so sure about that, Ian Hill could have been referring to Oldham Athletic (2004) Ltd as the business owning the football club. Simon Corney also stated prior to this that the Club will own "the development". Edited December 11, 2009 by jimsleftfoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I wouldn't be so sure about that, Ian Hill could have been referring to Oldham Athletic (2004) Ltd as the business owning the football club. Simon Corney also stated prior to this that the Club will own "the development". Did my post suggest I was certain of anything ? Quite the opposite actually... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 In this country, you gotta make the money first. Then when you get the money, you get the power. Then when you get the power, then you get the women.... Not sure if that's true Plenty of women out there available at discount prices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostofcecere Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Really ? It seems TTA's other company will own the British Aerospace land ? http://www.owtb.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...st&p=339318 My interpritation of what was said on the night was that Oldham Athletic (2004) Ltd. would own that land..... that's how it came across to me on the night. Maybe it's a point were further clarification could be sought at the next forum at the end of January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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