real Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Joe No one is saying that Gregan did not get kicked before he reacted. I never saw it, so if he did it would only be penalised if any official had seen it, obviously not the case. I agree with you about the yellow card and fully expected to see a red one produced, I can only tell you the answer I was given, in truth the club, Gregan and supporters should be grateful that it was only a yellow and not an automatic 3 match ban. My own take on it, and I used to referee at a decent standard, is that the referee and his assistant have decided to use a bit of common sense and would deem the penalty awarded as harsh enough a punishment under the circumstances. A bit of common sense at times is a great asset, but that is just my own thoughts. The bottom line is that irespective of what happend to Gregan he should not have throttled the Millwall player, although in the heat of the moment red mist can descend and make players do these things. Gregan was the best player out there today, yet his actions may have cost you 3 points. No common sense would dictate that an off the ball incident 80 yards from the ball should lead to a penalty. Woudl it happen the other way if a defender was fouled? e.g throw in to millwall 5 yards from their goal line, but just before ball went out of play a millwall striker fouled an oldham defender on the oldham goal line. Woudl we ever see a free kick to oldham on their own goal line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 I'd agree with you that Gregan put his hands around the guys neck. However it's clear you were not watching what had happened immediately prior to this when the same guy had kicked out at gregan as he went past him - this was after the ball into the box had been cleared and the ball was upfield. So, ball into box - nothing given Ball cleared upfield. Guy kicks gregan - laws of game say bring play all the way back to oldham penalty box and give free kick for foul? Erm, would that make any sense at all? We could be contensting a throw in 5 yards from the milwall goal line. Then gregan RETALIATES - yep his action were bookable, possibly red-card, but the first foul was by the millwall player. And by the way the millwall team acted they actually contrived to cheat a penalty out of the ref. Far worse than anything Henri did for France v Ireland. Pure and simple cheating. I'd love to see the millwall team answer some questions on this incident. Anyone know the Millwall Alan Hardy's email address? We could try to make him squirm! Poetic justice now would be for us to end up 21st, but then Millwall get demoted for match fixing or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 It was just weird as the ball was in play yards up the field I must have missed the "let me shake you by the neck" incident. All I saw was Greggs and their player had gone over to the linesman and Brill was making his way over too as he got the edge of the box and then the linesman started waiving the flag - so if the linesman saw it why did he not flag right away, why wait at least a good 30+ sec for the players to come over first??????? Greggs off - yes if it was the case but a penalty when the bloody ball is 30yds away surley cannot be right? Whether Greggs was angry with himself as just earlier he made a poor clearance right to the their player just outside the box and left Jacobsen (I think) to make a quick recovery for us (phew)...his one an only mistake - bless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 It was just weird as the ball was in play yards up the field I must have missed the "let me shake you by the neck" incident. All I saw was Greggs and their player had gone over to the linesman and Brill was making his way over too as he got the edge of the box and then the linesman started waiving the flag - so if the linesman saw it why did he not flag right away, why wait at least a good 30+ sec for the players to come over first??????? Greggs off - yes if it was the case but a penalty when the bloody ball is 30yds away surley cannot be right? Whether Greggs was angry with himself as just earlier he made a poor clearance right to the their player just outside the box and left Jacobsen (I think) to make a quick recovery for us (phew)...his one an only mistake - bless. Bang on with that (apart from the ball being 30 yds away - more like 80) - the lino didn't flag when the kick/throttle stuff went on, only when one of the millwall players went over to him to start remonstrating. I actually though he'd said something untoward and was getting a yellow for abusive language!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancy lad Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Guys, I was at the game today as a complete neutral and if you never saw the incident I wouldn't blame you as the ball was up the other end. Not sure how it started but the lino saw Gregan put both his hands around the Millwall lads neck, inside the area. I also saw it and really it left him with no option other than to award a penalty. I know the lino and have since asked why it wasn't a red card offence and he came back with a reply which makes sense although Im not really sure that I should put his answer on here. The penalty issue aside, you only have your own finishing to blame for not having the game sewn up by half time. If you can get Abbot scoring for you then you will be fine, otherwise its going to be a long hard struggle. What a pile of :censored:. Its football..................... remember that?????????????? Its a mans game. Its an off the ball incident which happens all the time with nothing done about it. If you know the lino tell him from me he is too fat at the moment to keep up with the game and is Sunday league because that display was wwwwwwwww:censored:. Several decisions today were absolute garbage........ I cant believe that tosser earns money from our professional game and everyone wonders why people stay away from football. Not that we deserve anything under Penney's negative tactics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1906 Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I saw Gregan and the Millwall player grappling and then both went down together and the ball was cleared. I carried on watching the two players and as they got up the Millwall player had a sly kick at Gregan who reacted by pushing him at the top of his shoulders. Brill and Gregan then shouted over to the linesman to ask if he'd seen the kick by the Millwall player, it was only then that he flagged. I think thats why Gregan couldn't believe it when the ref was booking him and he was obviously realising that a penalty was going to be given. The only explanation that i can think of is that the linesman only saw Gregans retaliation and didnt see the original kick by the Millwall player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Bang on with that (apart from the ball being 30 yds away - more like 80) - the lino didn't flag when the kick/throttle stuff went on, only when one of the millwall players went over to him to start remonstrating. I actually though he'd said something untoward and was getting a yellow for abusive language!! thanks Real for that.....me too....thought they were just having a pop at the linesman for spotting what either player had done to each other and yes one or both would get a yellow or told to calm it down Totally stunned when the ref then had a chat to the linesman walked in the penalty box and pointed to the spot!!!! Crowd reaction - wow!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hats Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I saw Gregan and the Millwall player grappling and then both went down together and the ball was cleared. I carried on watching the two players and as they got up the Millwall player had a sly kick at Gregan who reacted by pushing him at the top of his shoulders. Brill and Gregan then shouted over to the linesman to ask if he'd seen the kick by the Millwall player, it was only then that he flagged. I think thats why Gregan couldn't believe it when the ref was booking him and he was obviously realising that a penalty was going to be given. The only explanation that i can think of is that the linesman only saw Gregans retaliation and didnt see the original kick by the Millwall player. Very passionate lancy lol, In full agreement though Gary, I didn't see the initial incident and can only assume that the lino didn't either. You can only give what you see and thats what happend. Like I said, good luck for the remainder of the season. It was nice to be back watching proper football today, rather than the Premiership pantomine. Pub time now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Let's not forget the lino missing the milwall keeper running out of his penalty area by a yard with the ball in his hands then swiftly running back into his box in the first half. The one eyed lino was clearly king of the game today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego_Sideburns Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 While we are on the subject of being mystified by interpretation of the Laws of the game, shirt pulling in the penalty area usually goes unpunished , except for a recent pen given in a Greedy League game IIRC. My question is do the Laws cover the situation where, at a corner in the first half, Harris went behind Brill and pulled Brill's shorts down as the ball was coming across from the corner? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I didn't see anything deliberate from the Millwall player - there may have been a little kick in there though. Gregan put both hands around his neck (didn't try to strangle him admittedly). Lucky not to be sent off. We deserved more from the game than to lose to a stupid penalty conceded by our most experienced professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Becketts Anchor Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Let's not forget the lino missing the milwall keeper running out of his penalty area by a yard with the ball in his hands then swiftly running back into his box in the first half. The one eyed lino was clearly king of the game today. Yes, saw that too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underdog Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 While we are on the subject of being mystified by interpretation of the Laws of the game, shirt pulling in the penalty area usually goes unpunished , except for a recent pen given in a Greedy League game IIRC. My question is do the Laws cover the situation where, at a corner in the first half, Harris went behind Brill and pulled Brill's shorts down as the ball was coming across from the corner? Mr Burns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..................you don't miss a trick do you....damn it I always to miss the "best bits" of latics games these days.... I take it you were in the Chaddy then????..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted January 23, 2010 Author Share Posted January 23, 2010 Not that the lino had the best game anyway, sort of missing the keeper coming 6 foot out of his box with it in his hands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
real Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Ok, just seen the Football League Show. They say the liner was flagging furiously after the challenge when the ball went over and was then cleared upfield. Utter nonsense. You can see the liner as Jacobson clears the ball doing nothing and jogging off. It was for the afters. I wonder what's in the ref's report? Do fans have any avenue to see the content? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Just shown the incident partly on tv on BBC1, it said the lino was flagging furiously.........I don't think so! Didn't show the alledged strangulation though just the tangle beforehand............Inconclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Just got a response from the guy at www.askasoccerreferee.com : Sorry I missed the game, Joe. All I got were three FA Cup fourth round ties. If all is as you say -- and how could I doubt you, sir? -- then you are (almost) correct: Send off the Millwall defender, caution the Oldham player, and restart with a direct free kick for Oldham. Rather than blaming the referee, who may have been unsighted, let's put it down to poor lining and poor communication by the assistant referee, who should have seen the kick and flagged and radioed immediately. Jim Allen >Question: Hi, >In the game between Oldham and Millwall today, Millwall got a >controvertial penalty. > >What happened was Oldham's defender and Millwal's striker both went >down in the penalty area, whilst Millwall were taking a free kick. The >free kick was cleared, and play was well up the other end, when the >Millwall player (who was still on the floor) kicked out at the Oldham >player, before getting up. > >The Oldham player then pushed the Millwall player (I assume inside >the penalty area), before both players (and Oldham's keeper) shouted at >the linesman for a foul. > >The linesman waited a good 5 seconds before flagging for the referee, >who gave a penalty to Millwall, before booking Oldham's defender. > >As I understand it, shouldn't Oldham have been awarded a free kick, >as the Millwall player committed the first (and arguably worse) >offence? > >Then shouldn't the referee should have proceeded to show both players >a red card, rather than just showing the Oldham player a yellow one? > >Many thanks for a responce, as you can imagine, losing the game 1-0 >in this way really annoyed me and my fellow Oldham fans, and I can't >help but think that the ref messed it up royally! ----------------------------------------------- Seems conclusive to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsslatic Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 The lino definately didn't flag for the initial foul from Gregan, so it must have been the afters. As galling as it is, the long and short of it is that if we created some bloody chances in the second half or showed some composure in the first half then it wouldn't have mattered. Bitch and moan all you want (and believe me I did), but we got what we deserved in the end. We weren't as bad today as reports said we were on Wednesday so I'll take that as a positive. A front three of Smalley, Brooke and Eaves when you're chasing a game has 'Welcome to Division Four' written all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoafc Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 The lino definately didn't flag for the initial foul from Gregan, so it must have been the afters. As galling as it is, the long and short of it is that if we created some bloody chances in the second half or showed some composure in the first half then it wouldn't have mattered. Bitch and moan all you want (and believe me I did), but we got what we deserved in the end. We weren't as bad today as reports said we were on Wednesday so I'll take that as a positive. A front three of Smalley, Brooke and Eaves when you're chasing a game has 'Welcome to Division Four' written all over it. We can all see this bar the man that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) I saw the whole incident. 1) The ball was cleared upfield. 2) Gregan moved from the goaline, past the Millwall player who tripped him - off the ball in the box. 3) Gregan got up, turned round and pushed the Millwall player - handbags stuff, but in the box - hands were raised. 4) The lino did nothing for several seconds ... it seemed longer, but I'd reasonably guess that it was 5 or 6 seconds. 5) The lino then raised his flag as if for a foul, pointing it towards the RRE ... in other words, he's ruled in Millwall's favour. He didn't, however, place the flag across his chest to indicate a penalty at this stage. 6) Gregan gets booked, ref points to the spot. If the lino didn't see the trip, but saw the afters, the correct decision for me is red card Gregan and penalty Millwall. If the lino saw what I (and presumably others) saw the correct decision is a red card for both of them and a free kick to Latics. Not a penalty. It's a piss poor way to lose a football match, and Gregan should know better, but the lino can only tell the ref what he's actually seen, and on that evidence the miscarriage of justice was done. Greggs off - yes if it was the case but a penalty when the bloody ball is 30yds away surley cannot be right? It doesn't matter where the ball is on the pitch. A foul is a foul and if it happens in the box a penalty is the outcome. As soon as the flag went up I said to my mate "if he's going to pin this on Gregan the outcome has to be a penalty". Edited January 24, 2010 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 Not much else he could have done, mind, Pav was limping off down the tunnel, and Parker.... don't get me started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLatics Posted January 24, 2010 Author Share Posted January 24, 2010 5) The lino then raised his flag as if for a foul, pointing it towards the RRE ... in other words, he's rule in Millwall's favour. Then surely he thought it was a free kick? The signal for a penalty is putting the flag across his chest last time I checked... I reckon the guy was just completely incompetant, was he a first time liner or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hats Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 (edited) I saw the whole incident. 1) The ball was cleared upfield. 2) Gregan moved from the goaline, past the Millwall player who tripped him - off the ball in the box. 3) Gregan got up, turned round and pushed the Millwall player - handbags stuff, but in the box - hands were raised. 4) The lino did nothing for several seconds ... it seemed longer, but I'd reasonably guess that it was 5 or 6 seconds. 5) The lino then raised his flag as if for a foul, pointing it towards the RRE ... in other words, he's ruled in Millwall's favour. He didn't, however, place the flag across his chest to indicate a penalty at this stage. 6) Gregan gets booked, ref points to the spot. If the lino didn't see the trip, but saw the afters, the correct decision for me is red card Gregan and penalty Millwall. If the lino saw what I (and presumably others) saw the correct decision is a red card for both of them and a free kick to Latics. Not a penalty. It's a piss poor way to lose a football match, and Gregan should know better, but the lino can only tell the ref what he's actually seen, and on that evidence the miscarriage of justice was done. It doesn't matter where the ball is on the pitch. A foul is a foul and if it happens in the box a penalty is the outcome. As soon as the flag went up I said to my mate "if he's going to pin this on Gregan the outcome has to be a penalty". In a nutshell. Edited January 24, 2010 by hats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prendy_1984 Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 I just cant see how he gave the pen without the red card. You can be given a yellow for adopting an aggressive attitude but raising your hands is a definite red. I think the fact he didn't send him off shows he wasn't confident in the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manshaw Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Let's not forget the lino missing the milwall keeper running out of his penalty area by a yard with the ball in his hands then swiftly running back into his box in the first half. The one eyed lino was clearly king of the game today. +1. He made some very biased decisions all afternoon. I thought these officials are monitored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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