Town Centre brawl leaves young lad dead

[Yard Dog]

Bad news. A night out shouldn't end like that.

[Max Damage]

his name was Andy Molloy and they have a facebook page for him

[Bring Back Ronnie Moore]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8569115.stm

 

There's a reason I just don't bother with Oldham any more....it really is just full of fighting, every weekend's the same. In terms of venues, Dogdale is :censored:e, but there's not a quarter of the scrapping that goes in Oldham. That said, when I have money I'd rather just go Manchester.

[Ackey]

But if you ask a wide array of Latics fans on here Manchester's the death trap

 

Poor sod, whoever and wherever they were.

[leeslover]

It's not what a night out should be about. And I'm sure it wasn't how hard men of an older generation left arguments settled either, even if they feel the need to smash each other up why does it have to get to the point of one of them lying with terminal head injuries? Whatever the circumstances I feel for the family of the deceased, it only takes one guy to go over the edge and it could have been any one of us.

[Stitch_KTF]

That's absolutely horrendous but is anyone particularly surprised? I'm sure there are many towns with similar 'problems' to Oldham (i.e being choc-a-block full of idiots) but nowhere seems to make tensions run as high. It's almost as if the place is cursed - I believe it's something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oldham's reputation is passed from generation to generation (or should that be school year to school year) and so kids are going out expecting a fight in their sub-conscience.

 

The worst part is it happening outside The Mess House - that's bang central and there's usually a clan of dibble with cameras, a van and everything. There's no excuse whatsoever for somebody being beaten to death there. Bystanders should be ashamed of themselves and I hope they make a proper example of the nutcase.

 

Lastly, this would never, ever happen outside the likes of Sankeys. We live under, accept and even embrace some totally illogical and self-harming laws.

[RoytonBlueLad]

The worst part is it happening outside The Mess House - that's bang central and there's usually a clan of dibble with cameras, a van and everything.

 

To be fair it is 3am Monday morning. They are there all Friday and Saturday evening into Sunday morning as well. Nice as it'd be I am sure they deem Monday 3am as a fairly quiet time on Yorkshire St.

[jimsleftfoot]

That's absolutely horrendous but is anyone particularly surprised? I'm sure there are many towns with similar 'problems' to Oldham (i.e being choc-a-block full of idiots) but nowhere seems to make tensions run as high. It's almost as if the place is cursed - I believe it's something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oldham's reputation is passed from generation to generation (or should that be school year to school year) and so kids are going out expecting a fight in their sub-conscience.

 

The worst part is it happening outside The Mess House - that's bang central and there's usually a clan of dibble with cameras, a van and everything. There's no excuse whatsoever for somebody being beaten to death there. Bystanders should be ashamed of themselves and I hope they make a proper example of the nutcase.

 

Lastly, this would never, ever happen outside the likes of Sankeys. We live under, accept and even embrace some totally illogical and self-harming laws.

 

Even though I agree that Manchester is a lot more safer than Oldham (if you pick your places) Sankey's is a bit in the middle of no where and I saw reports that some guy had his ankle forcibly broken outside of there about 2 years ago.

[Stitch_KTF]

To be fair it is 3am Monday morning. They are there all Friday and Saturday evening into Sunday morning as well. Nice as it'd be I am sure they deem Monday 3am as a fairly quiet time on Yorkshire St.

 

I hadn't realised that.

 

 

Even though I agree that Manchester is a lot more safer than Oldham (if you pick your places) Sankey's is a bit in the middle of no where and I saw reports that some guy had his ankle forcibly broken outside of there about 2 years ago.

 

I doubt the perpetrators had been in the club, unless they were 'working' perhaps. You see the connotation I was making was that many illegal drugs are actually safer and less harmful to society than alcohol is, and indeed are so in so many different guises that the laws truly beggar belief.

 

Pretty much all the generally accepted negatives about drugs are, actually, born out of their prohibition rather than the drugs themselves. Many sections of society fail to recognise this, instead supporting and towing the official, line whilst at the same time, most frustratingly, actively encouraging alchohol use and even abuse. Idiots.

 

Seeing as it's a Latics forum I'll not go on, which a few longer term posters will no doubt be relieved to hear. Just remember kids, you booze you lose!

[Lookers_Carl]

Precisely the reason I will not touch Oldham with a bargepole for a night out.

[beag_teeets]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100316/tuk-m...ub-6323e80.html

 

Not just in Oldham.

[johnny punkster]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100316/tuk-m...ub-6323e80.html

 

Not just in Oldham.

 

doesn't make it alright though still.

 

 

i was in oldham 3 weeks ago with about 5 other mates...nothing has changed,there is still the edgy feeling that something might happen.

ended up in mess house,ordered a beer and watched bouncer after bouncer wading in, breaking up fights and chuckin em out...only for someone outside to end up taking a good whacking.

drank half of it made my excuses and left,vowing that was the last time i'll bother with a night out in oldham again.

[leeslover]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100316/tuk-m...ub-6323e80.html

 

Not just in Oldham.

That particular one makes me realise I am lucky to be alive, and not especially upset at the possibility of leaving Croydon for ever.

[oafc0000]

Aren't people lovely...

[RoytonBlueLad]

Precisely the reason I will not touch Oldham with a bargepole for a night out.

 

It ain't the best. An old school pal took a whack in Tokyo's a few weeks back and got a broken cheekbone for his troubles. Unprovoked and done side on so he barely saw it.

 

Other than being brain dead morons, exactly what is it with those who carry out things like that. Mugs.

[oafc0000]

Other than being brain dead morons, exactly what is it with those who carry out things like that

 

Usually, but not always... Low paid (if it all) morons, bitter and angry at the world due to there lot in life (not that they tried all that hard to do anything else with there lives). The only bit of power or control comes from there abilities with there fists.

 

Northern working class towns like Oldham have more than there fair share.

 

[Stitch_KTF]

Usually, but not always... Low paid (if it all) morons, bitter and angry at the world due to there lot in life.

 

Cheaper drugs now!

[RoytonBlueLad]

Usually, but not always... Low paid (if it all) morons, bitter and angry at the world due to there lot in life (not that they tried all that hard to do anything else with there lives). The only bit of power or control comes from there abilities with there fists.

 

Northern working class towns like Oldham have more than there fair share.

 

I suppose that is a large part of it.

 

I probably only visit a couple of times a year on nights out. I do remember not too long back when I started to go to town, early 2000's, there was a wide range of ages out even on a Saturday evening and then around midnight it'd be left to the younger ones to carry on drinking. Slowly the younger crowd took control and the older lot seemed to stop coming into town. Then it started to resemble a youth club. I'm not saying there wasn't bother when there was a larger range of ages but there was much less.

[thelaticsfan]

I had a friend who walked past a load of lads who were just constantly shouting names at him, calling him ugly, waste of space etc. he just walked right past, but they didnt leave it at that, angered that they didnt get a response one went over and lamped him, he got a bruise under his eye, 3 stitches and couldnt see out of that eye for 3 weeks,

 

doesnt even matter if you dont get involved, you still get attacked,

 

I even saw one lad being kicked in the back of the leg just walking by someone minding his own business, police got him and threw him in the back of the van but later on that night I saw him again, somehow managed to get let off

[razza699]

Cheaper drugs now!

 

Make poverty history!

[rudemedic]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100316/tuk-m...ub-6323e80.html

 

Not just in Oldham.

 

TBH that place is out in the sticks and somewhere like Uppermill is probably bigger- that probably isn't all that random.

 

As to Oldham on a night out- having only gone out there once (when its cheaper to go to Manchester why would you go to Oldham) I can say it didn't seem any worse than the numerous towns I've been out in but like I said I'm not out in Oldham that much- maybe it was a good night.

 

I too have seen trouble outside Sankey's but considering the amount of people who are aorund that area- essentially just those going to Sankey's which holds about 2000 when full (and its rarely that full). I'm not surprised there has been very little trouble. I'm unconvinced about Ecstasy being that harmless, considering it has only really been in decent use since the late 80s/early 90s I think I'd give it a few years before saying it has few long-term effects. Also because the "beneficial" effects of e are about "loving up" I'm not surprised Sankey's isn't a hot bed for violence, after all its cheaper to get high than get drunk in sankeys and the same could be said of a lot of the pre-sankeys bars.

 

Would I legalise drugs, probably, but that's because the benefits, (like taxation and control of purity) outweigh the negatives, (like the criminal aspects and increased health costs- although I would have to do some research to see if the increased health costs could be off-set by taxation).

 

This topic isn't about drugs though, its about some poor unfortunate who got beaten to death outside somewhere in Oldham. Oldham is not the drunk capital of Britain but it is getting a reputation and something needs to be done. However, since that something is quite likely a societal/cultural thing I don't see it happening soon.

 

 

[Stitch_KTF]

I too have seen trouble outside Sankey's but considering the amount of people who are aorund that area- essentially just those going to Sankey's which holds about 2000 when full (and its rarely that full). I'm not surprised there has been very little trouble. I'm unconvinced about Ecstasy being that harmless, considering it has only really been in decent use since the late 80s/early 90s I think I'd give it a few years before saying it has few long-term effects. Also because the "beneficial" effects of e are about "loving up" I'm not surprised Sankey's isn't a hot bed for violence, after all its cheaper to get high than get drunk in sankeys and the same could be said of a lot of the pre-sankeys bars.

 

If Sankeys holds 2000 people then I've never been. I'd say it holds half that, at the very most, and it is usually full or thereabouts.

 

Now, this actually supports your point, but then I've never seen trouble at any other dance venue either, bar out of a bloke with an ear missing at Cream. But then he did have a box of Stella on his table, bless him. The reason there is next to no trouble is simple - it's because next to nobody is pissed.

 

I shouldn't worry about long-term effects of ecstasy; absolutely everything is ok in moderation, I assure you. Besides, people a hell of a lot more qualified than you or I will ever be have confirmed it to be safe. Even heroin is harmless. Somewhat amazing given the taboo but absolutely true.

 

 

This topic isn't about drugs though, its about some poor unfortunate who got beaten to death outside somewhere in Oldham.

 

I applaud the sentiment but, and I am admittedly making an assumption here, it is drug related. My assumption is that they were both high on alcohol and that the incident wouldn't have happened had they not been. It's wrong that our laws, policies and consequently culture only increase the frequency of tragedies such as this and yet I'm often made out to be an idiot, always by ill-informed mainstream kind of people, when I preach about the unnecessary harm our crazy ways cause. Worst of all, issues of violence are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to illogical drug policy - you touched on some of the other key issues yourself. Good to see we're not always on different pages.

 

On the brightside, people are taking their heads out of the sand so it shouldn't go on for ever and, just for the record, I do like a drink and indulge most weekends.

[rudemedic]

If Sankeys holds 2000 people then I've never been. I'd say it holds half that, at the very most, and it is usually full or thereabouts.

 

Now, this actually supports your point, but then I've never seen trouble at any other dance venue either, bar out of a bloke with an ear missing at Cream. But then he did have a box of Stella on his table, bless him. The reason there is next to no trouble is simple - it's because next to nobody is pissed.

 

I shouldn't worry about long-term effects of ecstasy; absolutely everything is ok in moderation, I assure you. Besides, people a hell of a lot more qualified than you or I will ever be have confirmed it to be safe. Even heroin is harmless. Somewhat amazing given the taboo but absolutely true.

 

 

 

 

I applaud the sentiment but, and I am admittedly making an assumption here, it is drug related. My assumption is that they were both high on alcohol and that the incident wouldn't have happened had they not been. It's wrong that our laws, policies and consequently culture only increase the frequency of tragedies such as this and yet I'm often made out to be an idiot, always by ill-informed mainstream kind of people, when I preach about the unnecessary harm our crazy ways cause. Worst of all, issues of violence are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to illogical drug policy - you touched on some of the other key issues yourself. Good to see we're not always on different pages.

 

On the brightside, people are taking their heads out of the sand so it shouldn't go on for ever and, just for the record, I do like a drink and indulge most weekends.

 

I wasn't exactly counting but I was at the Chemical Brothers gig in Jan 2003 and I think my ticket had something like 2000 printed on it (I may have to hunt it out if I still have it). It was absolutely rammed. Most of the time though I'd say it has 1000 in and that's a comfortable level.

 

I could never say everything is OK in moderation- Leah Betts only took 1 pill for example- and Heroin isn't that safe (let me assure you I've seen people OD on it), nevermind the stuff they use to cut it, including the very worrying trend of Anthrax getting involved. I've seen people spend over 3 weeks in hospital down to weed, nevermind the carcinogenic effects of the other stuff in joints. People confirming Ecstasy is "harmless" isn't quite accurate- they may have confirmed it is "harmless" for the time being but they can't say for sure in the long term. The evidence for cigarette smoking being carcinogenic was based on 20+ years worth of data and wasn't initially believed (the doctor who suggested it was laughed out of the room).

 

Your point about drugs is not one I could disagree with. Alcohol is a drug (and I should know better to not refer to it as such), it probably wouldn't be legal if it was invented now. A lot of other countries have "drinking" cultures (e.g. some European ones and the antipodies) but I don't think their problems extend to the level ours do. The Aussies have an interesting policy on underage drinking whereby the person drinking gets fined, the person serving them gets fined more and the person owning the place gets fined a substanial amount- something I would like to see us adopt in this country. I don't think enough is done to stop those people who have already had too much from getting more but there is an interesting balance between stopping anti-social behaviour and overly reducing civil liberties.

[Stitch_KTF]

I wasn't exactly counting but I was at the Chemical Brothers gig in Jan 2003 and I think my ticket had something like 2000 printed on it (I may have to hunt it out if I still have it). It was absolutely rammed. Most of the time though I'd say it has 1000 in and that's a comfortable level.

 

I could never say everything is OK in moderation- Leah Betts only took 1 pill for example- and Heroin isn't that safe (let me assure you I've seen people OD on it), nevermind the stuff they use to cut it, including the very worrying trend of Anthrax getting involved. I've seen people spend over 3 weeks in hospital down to weed, nevermind the carcinogenic effects of the other stuff in joints. People confirming Ecstasy is "harmless" isn't quite accurate- they may have confirmed it is "harmless" for the time being but they can't say for sure in the long term. The evidence for cigarette smoking being carcinogenic was based on 20+ years worth of data and wasn't initially believed (the doctor who suggested it was laughed out of the room).

 

Google reliably informs me the capacity is 800. In real terms this is probably 1000.

 

Leah Betts died from drinking too much water after taking a pill, or something along those lines? I'd put that down to a lack of education and scaremongering, which I'd in turn attribute to prohibition. Besides, I'm sure someone somewhere will have died from 1 alcoholic drink - it's a million to one shot (and the rest). What else did the black market tablet contain? To all intents and purposes, and to the best of our extensive knowledge, it's a safe and enjoyable drug. If there are long term side effects yet to ascertained then so be it. What's to say there won't be for the host of pharmacuticals developed over the last quarter century? Is it somehow more feasible that E's will have negative longterm effects just because they're recreational?

 

Fortunately I've never really encountered heroin as, within the existing scenario, it's clearly bad news. It being harmless in its pure form I have taken from publications and the internet.

 

Now, I've smoked weed more days than I haven't for 10 years, comfortably. I don't crack on all day, I'm like the bloke who has a can of lager or two most nights and fully appreciate that ignoring my own moderation advice is foolhardy. However as far as I can tell the only real negative is the ususal smoking related stuff - I'm truly intrigued to know how somebody managed to hospitalise themselves for 3 weeks via toking?

[rudemedic]

Google reliably informs me the capacity is 800. In real terms this is probably 1000.

 

Leah Betts died from drinking too much water after taking a pill, or something along those lines? I'd put that down to a lack of education and scaremongering, which I'd in turn attribute to prohibition. Besides, I'm sure someone somewhere will have died from 1 alcoholic drink - it's a million to one shot (and the rest). What else did the black market tablet contain? To all intents and purposes, and to the best of our extensive knowledge, it's a safe and enjoyable drug. If there are long term side effects yet to ascertained then so be it. What's to say there won't be for the host of pharmacuticals developed over the last quarter century? Is it somehow more feasible that E's will have negative longterm effects just because they're recreational?

 

Fortunately I've never really encountered heroin as, within the existing scenario, it's clearly bad news. It being harmless in its pure form I have taken from publications and the internet.

 

Now, I've smoked weed more days than I haven't for 10 years, comfortably. I don't crack on all day, I'm like the bloke who has a can of lager or two most nights and fully appreciate that ignoring my own moderation advice is foolhardy. However as far as I can tell the only real negative is the ususal smoking related stuff - I'm truly intrigued to know how somebody managed to hospitalise themselves for 3 weeks via toking?

 

I didn't bother looking it up on google but fair enough. I'm not sure if Leah Betts died from that or not but since repetive movements and actions are a consequence of doing E, its down to the E (the same way being stupid is down to the booze) and I think E may do something to knock off the body's water regulation too. Heroin is not harmless in its pure form its a respiratory suppressant so you have to be very careful not to OD as OD-ing is often fatal. The person who hospitalised themselves for over 3 weeks as a result of weed was because he was mentally unwell and was kept in hospital for his own safety- he had someone watch him constantly 24 hours a day for over a week, physically he was fine. That was a bit of an extreme example but I've seen people in hospital in similar circumstances because of weed.

 

Your point about other drugs and their long-term effects is valid I wasn't trying to suggest other drugs don't have long term effects I was meerly pointing out that until E has been around for a bit longer we cannot know what its long term effects are. I'm not anti-E, due to the sheer numbers of people who take E it only takes 0.1% of them to have problems in the long-term (nevermind the fraction of those who OD) and the country is looking at a decent health expenditure without being able to claim some of the money back in taxation (which I think may bring us full circle).