General Election

[beag_teeets]

Very scary suggestion... It happens in the USA and leaves a portion of the public feeling representative and another, usually the minorities, feeling alienated.

 

It is reason enough not to vote Tory.

 

 

You can tell that Chris Grayling has only watched Series one of The Wire when they are coming out with this gumpf.

[razza699]

totally off topic but vaguely politics related, I met Robert Mugabes god son today

[beag_teeets]

I'm still angry at the shoddiness of the tory manifesto, how on earth have they come up with something so lame? They have had over 4 years, Camoron was appointed leader in December 2005 and they come up with this :censored:e??? Is this really the best they can do? I've been dreading today, really did think it was going to be the day that sealed 10 years of tory government but they have produced is beyond words. I'm embarrassed for them

[leeslover]

I'm still angry at the shoddiness of the tory manifesto, how on earth have they come up with something so lame? They have had over 4 years, Camoron was appointed leader in December 2005 and they come up with this :censored:e??? Is this really the best they can do? I've been dreading today, really did think it was going to be the day that sealed 10 years of tory government but they have produced is beyond words. I'm embarrassed for them

It would have been a hugely brave move for any of the parties to admit that they were going to cut, say, £50 billion off spending in year one and say where it was coming from, but nobody felt the gamble worth it. Well, the Lib Dems have hinted but then they can. I actually think the Tories might have benefitted from it, everyone knows it's coming and they would have got the honestly upper hand. And let's face it, if you are sitting pretty in a government job that Gordy created for you you aren't going to vote for anyone who wants to balance the books now are you?

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

And repossessions are at all time record levels.

 

I forgot about that one. Also wrong.

 

75,500 repossessions in 1991.

 

35,800 repossessions in 2009.

 

One of the above numbers is the all-time record. Can you tell which one it is?

 

Where on earth did you get that crap?

[Stitch_KTF]

because they were two grown men asking for a double bed?

 

Viable, I suppose, but I much prefered my version.

 

Proof positive that if you vote Tory, you're a scab.

 

Tory Toffs.

 

I'll not bother writing a critique of the article, it would take too long, but I will say that I'm shocked that the author, Johann Hari,

 

is an award-winning journalist who writes twice-weekly for the Independent, one of Britain's leading newspapers, and the Huffington Post. He also writes for the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, Le Monde, Le Monde Diplomatique, The New Republic, El Mundo, The Guardian, The Melbourne Age, the Sydney Morning Herald, South Africa's Star, The Irish Times, and a wide range of other international newspapers and magazines

 

Edited April 13, 2010 by Stitch_KTF

[Stitch_KTF]

I forgot about that one. Also wrong.

 

75,500 repossessions in 1991.

 

35,800 repossessions in 2009.

 

One of the above numbers is the all-time record. Can you tell which one it is?

 

Where on earth did you get that crap?

 

I wonder what respossessions would have been at this time round if interest rates were realistic?

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

So now success is measured by managing to improve a selection of statistics compared with the worst depths of the recession.

 

A recession that was deeper and longer in the UK than anywhere else in Europe due to the cumulative effect of 13 years of economic mismanagement by Gordon Brown.

 

Sure. What do you make of this then?...

 

Britain is enjoying one of the fastest growth rates of any top economy, according to a study that will boost Gordon Brown's election hopes.

The Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development estimates the UK economy is on course to expand by 0.775 per cent in the three months ending in June.

 

That is equivalent to an annual rate of 3.1 per cent and is more than any other G7 nation except Canada.

 

That was in the well-known Pinko journal of choice, The Daily Mail.

 

[leeslover]

I forgot about that one. Also wrong.

 

75,500 repossessions in 1991.

 

35,800 repossessions in 2009.

 

One of the above numbers is the all-time record. Can you tell which one it is?

 

Where on earth did you get that crap?

I think (mark this day, folks) that I might have been wrong there. I think it is insolvencies that are at an all time high.

 

As for the employment figures, you need to understand what I meant when I said that the recent rise was statistically insignificant. It doesn't mean that unemployment isn't going up, it's much more likely a blip. But if you think that everything in the economy is hunky dorry, and all the Northern working class people reading this are partying it up, feeling safe in their jobs, enjoying their recent pay rise, don't know anyone who has lost their jobs recently, arentt feeling the pinch of tax rises and who are looking forward with confidence, then just say so.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I wonder what respossessions would have been at this time round if interest rates were realistic?

 

 

What do you mean by "realistic"? Let's revisit the tragi-comedy of the not-often lamented Lamont years. This is from Treasury questions on 16 May 1991.

 

4. Mr. Corbett : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what United Kingdom bank base rates were in June 1983 and June 1987; and what they are now.

 

Mr. Norman Lamont: Bank base rates were reduced to 9 per cent. from 10 per cent. on 15 June 1983 and stood at 9 per cent. throughout June 1987. They now stand at 12 per cent.

 

Mr. Corbett: I thank the Chancellor for that reply. Why does he keep insisting that Government economic policies are working when almost 3 million of our fellow citizens are not? Does he see any connection between the loss of 1,000 manufacturing jobs each day for the first 90 working days of this year and high interest rates? Will he acknowledge that electors were looking forward to a June election because it is only during election periods that the Government manage to get interest rates down?

 

Mr. Lamont: Rising unemployment and the recession have been the price that we have had to pay to get inflation down. That price is well worth paying.

 

I'm a sucker for nostalgia, but that doesn't make me feel like giving Lamont's monkey, Camoron, the chance to be organ grinder.

[leeslover]

What do you mean by "realistic"? Let's revisit the tragi-comedy of the not-often lamented Lamont years. This is from Treasury questions on 16 May 1991.

 

4. Mr. Corbett : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what United Kingdom bank base rates were in June 1983 and June 1987; and what they are now.

 

Mr. Norman Lamont: Bank base rates were reduced to 9 per cent. from 10 per cent. on 15 June 1983 and stood at 9 per cent. throughout June 1987. They now stand at 12 per cent.

 

Mr. Corbett: I thank the Chancellor for that reply. Why does he keep insisting that Government economic policies are working when almost 3 million of our fellow citizens are not? Does he see any connection between the loss of 1,000 manufacturing jobs each day for the first 90 working days of this year and high interest rates? Will he acknowledge that electors were looking forward to a June election because it is only during election periods that the Government manage to get interest rates down?

 

Mr. Lamont: Rising unemployment and the recession have been the price that we have had to pay to get inflation down. That price is well worth paying.

 

I'm a sucker for nostalgia, but that doesn't make me feel like giving Lamont's monkey, Camoron, the chance to be organ grinder.

You are, sadly, crossing the line into economic illiteracy here. It's really not as if interest rates exist in a vacuum. There is little fear of inflationary pressures arising from low lending rates at a time when the economy is so much on it's arse, and more specifically when financial institutions are (wisely) resisting government pressure to lend unwisely (which is after all a fair part of what got us into the current mess). Money is theoretically cheap but in practice hard to come by. Of course we didn't have 3% or whatever rates in the late 90s, the whole bloody world would have borrowed every penny and more off us and we would have gone bust.

 

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I think (mark this day, folks) that I might have been wrong there. I think it is insolvencies that are at an all time high.

 

Show me.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

You are, sadly, crossing the line into economic illiteracy here.

 

I think I read that just fine. Here are the highlights:

 

Bank base rates reduced to 9 per cent. from 10 per cent. on 15 June 1983 and 9 per cent. throughout June 1987.

 

Interest rates at 12 per cent. in 1991.

 

3 million unemployed.

 

1,000 manufacturing jobs lost on each of the first 90 working days of 1991.

 

Government manages to control interest rates only during election periods.

 

Lamont: Rising unemployment and the recession is a price is well worth paying. But I'm fu**ed if I'm paying it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oafc0000]

There is so much rubbish being printed in the press that is not being challenged and the public is sucking up. I had read repossession where at a all time high somewhere... its just a plain lie, like most "facts" being presented by the mainly right wing press...

[Stitch_KTF]

What do you mean by "realistic"? Let's revisit the tragi-comedy of the not-often lamented Lamont years. This is from Treasury questions on 16 May 1991.

 

4. Mr. Corbett : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what United Kingdom bank base rates were in June 1983 and June 1987; and what they are now.

 

Mr. Norman Lamont: Bank base rates were reduced to 9 per cent. from 10 per cent. on 15 June 1983 and stood at 9 per cent. throughout June 1987. They now stand at 12 per cent.

 

Mr. Corbett: I thank the Chancellor for that reply. Why does he keep insisting that Government economic policies are working when almost 3 million of our fellow citizens are not? Does he see any connection between the loss of 1,000 manufacturing jobs each day for the first 90 working days of this year and high interest rates? Will he acknowledge that electors were looking forward to a June election because it is only during election periods that the Government manage to get interest rates down?

 

Mr. Lamont: Rising unemployment and the recession have been the price that we have had to pay to get inflation down. That price is well worth paying.

 

I'm a sucker for nostalgia, but that doesn't make me feel like giving Lamont's monkey, Camoron, the chance to be organ grinder.

 

 

My point was simple - if interest rates hadn't been so low (or maybe had there just been an interest rate) then repossessions would have been much higher, or we wouldn't have even had the problem in the first place. As it is we have a short term fix so people continue to live in, and probably stand to lose yet more money on, homes they can't even afford.

 

I wasn't suggesting interest rates back then were 'realistic' - I have little to no understanding of the economic policies/mistakes of 1991 but it's a given that those rates aren't acceptable. I do have some understanding of today's common sense defying scenarios however, and though it could be that we don't suffer any backlash of the government/BoE's emergency (and short-term successful) measures I expect that we are only delaying and worsening the problem.

 

 

Anyway, I don't care to take part in any further debate over this as I have already shared my opinion of how ridiculous I consider the system as a whole to be. You criticise past Conservative mistakes, fine, but in my eyes they were foremostly the mistakes of the people concerned. These were Conservative people yes, but then they only ever really had two choices and chances are they were shoe-horned into whichever way they went. Consequently I'll bet there's a similarly long list of successes and failures on each side, as the law of chance prevails.

 

Red or blue? It's all a load of bollocks, there are a million more ways than two to skin a cat. So stick your general election up your arse, suckers.

[leeslover]

I wasn't suggesting interest rates back then were 'realistic' - I have little to no understanding of the economic policies/mistakes of 1991 but it's a given that those rates aren't acceptable. I do have some understanding of today's common sense defying scenarios however, and though it could be that we don't suffer any backlash of the government/BoE's emergency (and short-term successful) measures I expect that we are only delaying and worsening the problem.

Allow me

 

Firstly, world interest rates back then were far higher, these things don't exist in isolation. If you have lower interest rates than everyone else then people sell your currency. That's not hard to understand, it's like an underperforming share.

 

The government was committed back then to pegging it's currency to the ERM level (John Smith was possibly yhe only person more keen). The difference now is that the UK is not tied into the European system and so the Government is able, for good or ill, to lower interest rates so as to devalue the pound in your pocket, pension etc in the hope of stimulating the economy. This may account for somewhat of the boost in output, tiny as it is, although we will have to see whether this ends up meaning more paper pounds which buy less. Anyone looking at holidaying in the Eurozone knows this to be true.

[slurms mckenzie]

Off the top of my head - Surestart. Minimum wage. Fox hunting ban. Never seen before investment in improving housing in deprived areas. Civil Partnerships/rafts of minority rights. Massively increased African/overseas aid and writing off billions of third world debt. Hugely increased NHS investment. Statutory holiday and Paternity rights. Possibly the biggest ever redistribution of wealth ever seen in this country in the form of tax credits and minimum incomes for pensioners. All LABOUR life changing innovations which have improved the lives of millions, including the oppressed and impoverished. The TORIES did not support any of these.

 

Whereas the Tories will bring in such delights as - A free vote on fox hunting. Potentially destroying the education system with an ill thought out suggestion on setting up of new schools. Overturning an earnings related National Insurance tax increase (how can this be a "stealth" tax? - how on earth can something which has been in every news outlet for weeks be classed as a "stealth tax"???) , in favour of a VAT increase, which effects the poorest members of society to a far greater degree as opposed to the wealthiest. Tax cuts for the rich in terms of increasing the IHT threshold - instead they will cut services most affecting the poor and impoverished by stripping billions out of social services, the NHS, education, policing etc.

 

Vote labour - for Basil's sake.

 

Edited April 13, 2010 by slurms mckenzie

[beag_teeets]

So stick your general election up your arse, suckers.

 

Typical pinko point but whilst I respect your right to say that, it is the only system we have at the moment to have our say. We are never going to have "the perfect system" in a country with 45million eligible voters so for me opting out is a cop out. You might not agree with any of the parties but there is possibly one that you disagree with more, voting only takes about 10 mins every few years, hardly a hardship.

 

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

There is so much rubbish being printed in the press that is not being challenged and the public is sucking up. I had read repossession where at a all time high somewhere... its just a plain lie, like most "facts" being presented by the mainly right wing press...

 

And on here too. LL clearly repeated the nonsense he'd read on unemployment, make-believe jobs, statistical scams and repossessions and got them all wrong.

 

He then says that insolvencies are at an all-time high, without saying whether he means businesses, individuals or both, and without knowing whether statistics are comparable over time or even so much as whether they exist at all.

 

Repossessions is a case in point. In early 2009, the Council of Mortgage Lenders predicted that repossessions would be at an all time high. That made all the papers. When repossessions turned out not to be a record, or not even worth bothering about, no one reported it. Therefore the ignorant among our fellow citizens labour under the misapprehension that the prediction came true. It didn't. How sad.

[beag_teeets]

Allow me

 

Firstly, world interest rates back then were far higher, these things don't exist in isolation. If you have lower interest rates than everyone else then people sell your currency. That's not hard to understand, it's like an underperforming share.

 

The government was committed back then to pegging it's currency to the ERM level (John Smith was possibly yhe only person more keen). The difference now is that the UK is not tied into the European system and so the Government is able, for good or ill, to lower interest rates so as to devalue the pound in your pocket, pension etc in the hope of stimulating the economy. This may account for somewhat of the boost in output, tiny as it is, although we will have to see whether this ends up meaning more paper pounds which buy less. Anyone looking at holidaying in the Eurozone knows this to be true.

 

 

Not since the BoE took on this responsibility.

[leeslover]

Vote labour - for Basil's sake.

 

Leaving the rest aside, I think fox hunters are knobs, but it's people's right to be a knob (and thank god for that). Foxes, however, are bastards, complete and utter, and I would happily have some posh bell-end ride down my street in a red jacket shouting tally-ho once in a while if he killed a few of the cunning gits on his way past.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Off the top of my head - Surestart. Minimum wage. Fox hunting ban. Never seen before investment in improving housing in deprived areas. Civil Partnerships/rafts of minority rights. Massively increased African/overseas aid and writing off billions of third world debt. Hugely increased NHS investment. Statutory holiday and Paternity rights. Possibly the biggest ever redistribution of wealth ever seen in this country in the form of tax credits and minimum incomes for pensioners. All LABOUR life changing innovations which have improved the lives of millions, including the oppressed and impoverished. The TORIES did not support any of these.

 

 

What about Northern Ireland? How would the Tories have sorted that out while maintaining an electoral pact with the UUP? Answer: they wouldn't.

 

[beag_teeets]

<snip> list of Labour's achievements</snip>

 

Keeping Basil though

 

 

And as someone who had started smoking again last year but have so far managed to not have a fag since 1st Jan this year the smoking ban is a fantastic piece of legislation. The single biggest health policy since the formation of the health service. Whilst smoking is absolutely one of the most enjoyable things on this planet it is plain dumb and millions of people die each year in horrible ways due to it. The only way not to want to smoke is to never start in the first place and anything that stops people smoking and cuts the numbers of people starting to smoke is a good thing in my book.

[Killens_physio]

How, seriously can anyone justify voting for Labour again. 12 years of lies, stealth tax, borrowing, snooping, rights for criminals rather than victims, rising in benefits culture, uncontrolled immigration (all of which we now know was part of Labour's soclal engineering project) the last of the so-called bigger nations to come out of recession (which we arent) and worst of all the dispicable act of breaking their promise on an EU referundum that they swore they would give us at the last election. Another 4 years of Gormless Brown and his Marxist commie mates just doesnt bare thinking about.

 

Its time for a change, and hopefully Comrade Brown and his loathsome henchmen have done enough to make sure Labour remain in opposition for generations to come. Britain cannot afford another day after May 6th of this government. If Labour get re-elected this country has no chance of pulling itself out of the :censored:e that Labour has caused.

 

A rope and some gallows are all this treacherous government deserve.

 

[beag_teeets]

How, seriously can anyone justify voting for Labour again. 12 years of lies, stealth tax, borrowing, snooping, rights for criminals rather than victims, rising in benefits culture, uncontrolled immigration (all of which we now know was part of Labour's soclal engineering project) the last of the so-called bigger nations to come out of recession (which we arent) and worst of all the dispicable act of breaking their promise on an EU referundum that they swore they would give us at the last election. Another 4 years of Gormless Brown and his Marxist commie mates just doesnt bare thinking about.

 

Its time for a change, and hopefully Comrade Brown and his loathsome henchmen have done enough to make sure Labour remain in opposition for generations to come. Britain cannot afford another day after May 6th of this government. If Labour get re-elected this country has no chance of pulling itself out of the :censored:e that Labour has caused.

 

A rope and some gallows are all this treacherous government deserve.

 

 

I think you'll find it was justified on the last page, the post with the first picture of Basil.