24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Maybe, we'll all see how it goes. It really is a strange situation (did Merkel have to beat her own party in the first term in Germany*?) There is a distinct problem that the Liberals can never call the election, they've just got to let it run its course and hope that after five years things are sitting pretty. The Tories meanwhile can pick their time and go when things look good. Neither parties minor factions are going to vote for Christmas when they smell something similar to chicken. The leaders can't do what they want against their party, but they can do what they want against their manifesto's. Both parties will cry this come election time. I think when it comes down to it, it depends upon how well off people are. People will vote for themselves - be that well off folks wanting to grab £2k for spitting out a kid, scroungers wanting £3 more a week, local government people out of work, or people with dead grannies due to the state of the NHS. Labour meanwhile have to sit and wait. Nothing they can do but learn the lines from Everybody Loves Raymond and hope the Country goes to ruin. What a thing to hope for; that you have to watch Everybody Loves Raymond. Is it on in the morning? I'll have plenty of time to catch up in a couple of years. *I really have no idea. Dunno either. I think the theory is Lenin's, but it might happen only in British politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 (edited) They've fecked up with this conference. You make the nice announcements at your conference. You save the nasty stuff (e.g. cuts, child benefit etc) until the spending review is announced later in the month. That way the fickle electorate think the nice stuff is down to the Tories and the nasty stuff must have been forced on them by the Lib-Dems. Edited October 6, 2010 by opinions4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 They've fecked up with this conference. You make the nice announcements at your conference. You save the nasty stuff (e.g. cuts, child benefit etc) until the spending review is announced later in the month. That way the fickle electorate think the nice stuff is down to the Tories and the nasty stuff must have been forced on them by the Lib-Dems. They should hire you. Save it for the House of Commons, where no one is watching. Silly Dave, silly Tories. Happy days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 Labour meanwhile have to sit and wait. Nothing they can do but learn the lines from Everybody Loves Raymond and hope the Country goes to ruin. What a thing to hope for; that you have to watch Everybody Loves Raymond. I disagree, I don't mind a bit of Raymond followed with a bit of Frasier, sets me up nicely for a day rather than a bleary eyed nose to tail drive at 7;30 "to avoid the traffic" who am I trying to kid? I digress. Labour do not need to sit and wait, we have to work harder than we did in government - that is why we are not in government any more. The cuts coming up are Labour's cuts, they are because we lost the election and by jove we lost the election. The saying goes that oppositions do not win elections, governments lose them and there hasn't been a better example of that than the last election. We fecked it up royally from Iraq, 90 days, Brown, PPI..etc.. The coalition could last 5 years or it could all end after 20th October, either way the party has a lot of bridges to build, first within the party itself then with the rest of the country. We need to revisit what the party stands for in 21st century Britain and redefine what it means to be left. There is a massive amount of detoxification to be done before many people would even consider putting their cross next to a Labour candidate, we are coming from a long way back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I disagree, I don't mind a bit of Raymond followed with a bit of Frasier, sets me up nicely for a day rather than a bleary eyed nose to tail drive at 7;30 "to avoid the traffic" who am I trying to kid? I digress. Labour do not need to sit and wait, we have to work harder than we did in government - that is why we are not in government any more. The cuts coming up are Labour's cuts, they are because we lost the election and by jove we lost the election. The saying goes that oppositions do not win elections, governments lose them and there hasn't been a better example of that than the last election. We fecked it up royally from Iraq, 90 days, Brown, PPI..etc.. The coalition could last 5 years or it could all end after 20th October, either way the party has a lot of bridges to build, first within the party itself then with the rest of the country. We need to revisit what the party stands for in 21st century Britain and redefine what it means to be left. There is a massive amount of detoxification to be done before many people would even consider putting their cross next to a Labour candidate, we are coming from a long way back. Just wait until the Electoral commission reverse the gerrymandering of the last 13 years. New look constituency boundaries could stuff Labour for a long time - even while the Tories continue to tax the hell out of their own supporters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadam Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 LOL. Health and Safety was a v.good thing when it was brought in and on death certificates there is still a tick box which is something like could this death be as a result of occupation. Meaning those people with mesothelioma who worked with asbestos, the miners and their lung cancer plus a whole host of other lung diseases can get the compo they deserve. A lot of health and safety is also public health related (and this is currently in vogue) like the smoking ban etc. However, some of health and safety does treat the general public as idiots because sometimes sections of the general public are idiots. What health and safety don't do is distinguish between those people who take unnecessary risks because they are idiots and those who take risk because that's human nature. I'd be more than happy to see "No win No fee" lawyers banned but unfortunately a member of parliament (I think he is/was a Tory) is a "No win No fee" lawyer and acted in his own best interests. The scrapping of ID cards is a very good thing though- as I don't know about anyone else but I carry quite a few things with my name (and sometimes a picture as well) on in my wallet. Making it complusory to carry one thing seems ridiculous when most of us carry that anyway- it won't stop terrorism (I'm fairly certain the 7/7 bombers had passports and some probably had driving licenses too) so why waste the country's money on it. How would you replace ID cards? I think they help in certain circumstances e.g when we are getting on a plane they know who we are. Obviously they can be copied but they are trying to stop that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 (edited) How would you replace ID cards? I think they help in certain circumstances e.g when we are getting on a plane they know who we are. Obviously they can be copied but they are trying to stop that. Passport ? If the ID card became a replacement for everything.. passport, driving license etc then I would be behind it... but it was a bit naff and expensive in the end... Edited October 7, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would you replace ID cards? I think they help in certain circumstances e.g when we are getting on a plane they know who we are. Obviously they can be copied but they are trying to stop that. I wouldn't, we don't need them we have stuff already. I'm looking a building responsible right now, its a Passport office. Driving licenses have pics on them, credit cards have names on them. In my wallet right now I've 5 things on with my name on them (where my name isn't hand written/typed), 3 where it is, and 2 things with my name and pic on (one of which is my driving license) why do I need something else? Like I said it doesn't stop people commiting crimes, especially acts of terror. The 7/7 bombers all had passports, (and I bet a few had a driving license too). ID cards won't prevent crime, if they were to become mandatory it is a tax, one which is unecessary. OK it might make some people a whole load of money- the passports have to be printed somewhere (incidentally its in Oldham). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spadam Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I wouldn't, we don't need them we have stuff already. I'm looking a building responsible right now, its a Passport office. Driving licenses have pics on them, credit cards have names on them. In my wallet right now I've 5 things on with my name on them (where my name isn't hand written/typed), 3 where it is, and 2 things with my name and pic on (one of which is my driving license) why do I need something else? Like I said it doesn't stop people commiting crimes, especially acts of terror. The 7/7 bombers all had passports, (and I bet a few had a driving license too). ID cards won't prevent crime, if they were to become mandatory it is a tax, one which is unecessary. OK it might make some people a whole load of money- the passports have to be printed somewhere (incidentally its in Oldham). How would you stop terrorism? The only way you can stop them is more security. Security in airports has got a lot better. Only taking a certain amount of liquid for example. Not enough is done to stop terrorists on trains for example and in the majority of public services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garcon Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 The problem is how much security do you blanket everything with before you've done the terrorists' job for them and destroyed your "free" society. We've been lucky of late, in no small part due to an immense amount of covert anti-terrorism work that has seen several potential attacks thwarted before they got anywhere near the stage where high security at airports and in public places would make any difference. Yes we need a degree of overt security as a last resort, but it's the pre-emptive stuff that really makes a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would you stop terrorism? The only way you can stop them is more security. Security in airports has got a lot better. Only taking a certain amount of liquid for example. Not enough is done to stop terrorists on trains for example and in the majority of public services. To be frank, I am happy to take the risk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudemedic Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 How would you stop terrorism? The only way you can stop them is more security. Security in airports has got a lot better. Only taking a certain amount of liquid for example. Not enough is done to stop terrorists on trains for example and in the majority of public services. If the government really wanted to stop terrorism in the air, airports would be sheds next to an airfield. You can blow up a plane if you walked thorugh security in your swimming trunks provided you had enough cash to buy stuff at the duty free. Its the same with the trains. I'm highly skeptical of the liquids thing- yes you can blow up a plane with the right sort of liquids, but you can also blow up a plane with the liquids they sell at every duty free in the land. What the liquids ban does is mean the shops at the airports can charge what they like as no one can bring a drink bottle with them. Rumour has it at least one of the planes hijacked for 9/11 was done with a knife. If a knife can do it, so can those plastic ones they give you with your meal, (some still use metal), you can kill someone with a pen (are they going to stop people taking pens on board). So you want airport style security on the trains do you, where are they going to put that at Mills Hill? What about the buses? What about every railway bridge in the land, you can make a bomb out of the stuff you have in your fridge, nevermind what you can get at every Garden store in the land. Not to mention the water supply etc.. Unless you want everyone in the country to be chipped terrorism can still happen without much planning. As local councils have shown the anti-terror laws are open to abuse by those in authority, so everytime you do something dodgy like speeding, the government can find out. You can't stop terrorism, ID cards won't help, all they are is an expensive way of making sure everyone has something 90% of the population has already. And that's before I get on to the argument that Garcon hinted at, if the government stops my liberties when the worse thing I've done is speed, then the terroists win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beag_teeets Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Wasn't even a knife, I'm sure they were box cutters on 11/09/01 (hate 9/11, ruddy Americans) I've used box cutters to open boxes, they don't even do that well so what people thought the islamo-fundamentalists were going to do with them is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 (edited) Wasn't even a knife, I'm sure they were box cutters on 11/09/01 (hate 9/11, ruddy Americans) I've used box cutters to open boxes, they don't even do that well so what people thought the islamo-fundamentalists were going to do with them is beyond me. Didn't they have fake bombs as well... You also have to remember the old advice that the cabin crew was trained with and most people know. During a hijacking keep calm, keep your head down, and let the police handle it. They wouldn't of had a clue of what was about to follow The same attack could never happened again. There is no way I would be sitting in my seat waiting to die. Done enough of that at Latics Edited October 8, 2010 by oafc0000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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