Election 2010 - Post Campaign Vote

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I understand the theory. The problem is that whilst the sentiment isn't flawed the theory certainly is. Some people just aren't worth a 'decent' days pay to an employer and, given current restrictions, probably never will be - didn't your elders ever bleat on about 'The Real World'?

 

 

There must be an alternative, less detrimental way of preventing extortion? Perhaps there could be an ingenius solution which also prevents employees 'extorting' their employer in terms of sciving, for want of a better word? Perhaps relationships between employers and employees are best left alone? Perhaps the government should legislate that my missus sucks me off every day, regardless of whether or not I've picked my clothes up? Who knows? What I do know is that, obsession or not, productivity determines real wages. Just ask your mate!

 

Employers have been proving for centuries that they can't be trusted to behave by paying people what they're worth just like that, without a bit of a prod in the right direction. Indeed, the profit motive gives them an incentive to behave badly.

 

Employers have recourse to disciplinary mechanisms if they're not satisfied with workers, just like your missus can file for divorce is she decides that the fellatio / tidiness ratio is not to her satisfaction. If they misuse disciplinary procedures, they can expect to be asked to compensate the person they have wronged by tribunals or via other arbitration.

 

What is the productivity of a nurse? Come to think of it, what is the productivity of a Hansard reporter? How come an actor who plays a nurse or doctor on Casualty gets - let's say - three times as much as a real nurse or doctor? Productivity alone does not determine wages and indeed suggests very little about what someone should get paid.

 

I've got some half-formed thoughts about what should be done to stop employers extorting workers - involving the soles of the employer's feet and rubber truncheons. Nothing solid though.

[leeslover]

What is the productivity of a nurse? Come to think of it, what is the productivity of a Hansard reporter? How come an actor who plays a nurse or doctor on Casualty gets - let's say - three times as much as a real nurse or doctor? Productivity alone does not determine wages and indeed suggests very little about what someone should get paid.

Who knows he answer to these questions? Indeed, what unit of measurement could we use? The market system shows us the amount that people are prepared to exchange in return what the rest of the world will voluntarily swap them for doing what they do. Obviously the Casualty doctor is paid for by the BBC licence fee, which is extorted through government force, so his/her wages are more akin to the centrally planned minimum wage than a market process. I think that the Hansard equivalent speaks for itself. But as someone who likes to ask people to answer their own questions, are you going to tell us how much a particular job is worth? Maybe suggest setting up a Ministry to decide it? My, we'll all be so much better off in your world when we all get a pay rise.

[opinions4u]

just like your missus can file for divorce is she decides that the fellatio / tidiness ratio is not to her satisfaction.

You talk a lot of :censored:.

 

But this made me laugh!

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Who knows he answer to these questions? Indeed, what unit of measurement could we use? The market system shows us the amount that people are prepared to exchange in return what the rest of the world will voluntarily swap them for doing what they do. Obviously the Casualty doctor is paid for by the BBC licence fee, which is extorted through government force, so his/her wages are more akin to the centrally planned minimum wage than a market process. I think that the Hansard equivalent speaks for itself. But as someone who likes to ask people to answer their own questions, are you going to tell us how much a particular job is worth? Maybe suggest setting up a Ministry to decide it? My, we'll all be so much better off in your world when we all get a pay rise.

 

Casualty was a bad example. Try House or Grey's Anatomy.

 

Otherwise you agree with me. I don't know the answers to those questions - it was Stitch who made the bold claim that productivity determines real wages. I don't know what determines real wages, and neither does Stitch, and neither do you. The NMW simply ensures that employers - your latter day Heckmondwickes and Gartsides - who feel like being mean can't be as mean as they'd like, or they get their collar felt. That's the fundamental principle, and it's alright by me.

[leeslover]

Oh, and it seems that my observational theories about sickness benefot were not needed - Gordy's lot had already done the research for me! Cheers Mr Tulsehill

 

Under assessments carried out under Labour on new employment support allowance claimants between October 2008 and August 2009, 39% were deemed "fit for work" and a further 37% withdrew their claim before the test was complete.

 

Overall, of completed assessments, 68% were deemed fit for work, 9% were recommended for a support group aimed at several disabled people who are not obliged to find work.

 

Scammers

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Oh, and it seems that my observational theories about sickness benefot were not needed - Gordy's lot had already done the research for me! Cheers Mr Tulsehill

 

 

 

Scammers

 

Observational theories. You mean inventions. Just because your inventions turn out to have some basis in fact doesn't mean they weren't inventions in the first place. You asserted lots of things about Government failings before the election, some of which you hadn't simply made up. You're still a right wing goon, and you still don't live in this country, so you might as well sing it to the birds for all I give a

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Oh yeah, Monsieur Garcon. How's that closing the gap between rich and poor coming along?

[garcon]

Oh yeah, Monsieur Garcon. How's that closing the gap between rich and poor coming along?

Given the plan is to make everyone poorer in the short term, I'm sure we can come up with some positive statistics.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Given the plan is to make everyone poorer in the short term, I'm sure we can come up with some positive statistics.

 

Good luck with that one. Good luck to you. There we have it. To close the gap between rich and poor, we'll make everyone poor. Typical Liberal. Just so long as you can say something exploitative and disingenuous about it, its okay.

 

 

[leeslover]

Observational theories. You mean inventions. Just because your inventions turn out to have some basis in fact doesn't mean they weren't inventions in the first place. You asserted lots of things about Government failings before the election, some of which you hadn't simply made up. You're still a right wing goon, and you still don't live in this country, so you might as well sing it to the birds for all I give a

Inventions to you, in fact I can discover facts about the real world by logic, starting from A = A. As a lesser mortal I wouldn;t expect you to understand this

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Inventions to you, in fact I can discover facts about the real world by logic, starting from A = A

 

This is a direct quote from David Hume, so I don't want any interfering from the mods.

 

"No you can't."

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Woolas campaign diary in today's independent.

 

Class act linkorama.

 

One of the most memorable victories for me - worth staying up till well into the day for.

[oafc0000]

Woolas campaign diary in today's independent.

 

Class act linkorama.

 

One of the most memorable victories for me - worth staying up till well into the day for.

 

A very interesting read...

 

I think pushing political stuff to onside it shows the stress, turmoil and pressure an MP is under. Specially during the expenses scandal.

 

I wonder how it got out...

[leeslover]

Woolas campaign diary in today's independent.

 

Class act linkorama.

 

One of the most memorable victories for me - worth staying up till well into the day for.

Only had time to skim it before I pop out, but my thoughts were, "self pitying t--t." Oh, so you have a hard job and people say nasty things about you and if you don't so better and make people think you are good you might not have as good a job? You'll still have a great big TV and a fat pay off, you pissed up :censored:, not like most of the people you pretend to represent.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

Oh dear.

 

Before the election, Nick Clegg and every Lib Dem candaditate said that scrapping ID cards would mean they could put 3,000 more police officers on the streets. ID cards are all but scrapped, with the Bill set to become law maybe before the summer recess.

 

However, yesterday, the Liberals - Clegg, Cable and Uncle Tom Cobleigh - voted with the Tories to cut the police grant in England and Wales in-year, despite the fact that it's the third year of a three-year settlement (why not wait?) which police sources say could mean axing thousands of officers. A very high percentage of police costs are people.

 

And another thing. Under Labour, crime fell because there were more police and more people did time for their crimes. All that red tape and form filling that some officers complained about actually helped conviction rates.

 

Now there's no one to catch criminals, and those who do get caught apparently won't be going to jail. Let's wait and see what happens, but I don't like the chances of crime falling.

[oafc0000]

My fave is the graduate tax... What a farce of an idea...

 

So instead of paying off your debts until you are in your 30s you can do it for the rest of your life... YAY!

[beag_teeets]

Oh dear.

 

Before the election, Nick Clegg and every Lib Dem candaditate said that scrapping ID cards would mean they could put 3,000 more police officers on the streets. ID cards are all but scrapped, with the Bill set to become law maybe before the summer recess.

 

However, yesterday, the Liberals - Clegg, Cable and Uncle Tom Cobleigh - voted with the Tories to cut the police grant in England and Wales in-year, despite the fact that it's the third year of a three-year settlement (why not wait?) which police sources say could mean axing thousands of officers. A very high percentage of police costs are people.

 

And another thing. Under Labour, crime fell because there were more police and more people did time for their crimes. All that red tape and form filling that some officers complained about actually helped conviction rates.

 

Now there's no one to catch criminals, and those who do get caught apparently won't be going to jail. Let's wait and see what happens, but I don't like the chances of crime falling.

 

I'm sure that the private sector will be able to fill the shortfall from the public sector here. If not, as citizens of Dave's Big Society, I'm sure we could get together and form our own police force.

[garcon]

I think Dave's having some new ideas about where to save money. Have to say I'm right with him too...

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/pol...f-201007152911/

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

I think Dave's having some new ideas about where to save money. Have to say I'm right with him too...

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/pol...f-201007152911/

 

 

Class.

[leeslover]

Oh dear.

 

Before the election, Nick Clegg and every Lib Dem candaditate said that scrapping ID cards would mean they could put 3,000 more police officers on the streets. ID cards are all but scrapped, with the Bill set to become law maybe before the summer recess.

 

However, yesterday, the Liberals - Clegg, Cable and Uncle Tom Cobleigh - voted with the Tories to cut the police grant in England and Wales in-year, despite the fact that it's the third year of a three-year settlement (why not wait?) which police sources say could mean axing thousands of officers. A very high percentage of police costs are people.

 

And another thing. Under Labour, crime fell because there were more police and more people did time for their crimes. All that red tape and form filling that some officers complained about actually helped conviction rates.

 

Now there's no one to catch criminals, and those who do get caught apparently won't be going to jail. Let's wait and see what happens, but I don't like the chances of crime falling.

This is quite an interesting diversion from what would be the standard line you were trotting out in the run up to the election. I am sure that if anyone like me in the course of that debate had advocated hanging and flogging, or at the least imprisoning offenders, you would have painted it as the boss class picking on the maltreated underclass. And it's been a staple of the "left wing" :censored:e you adopted for the sake of this thread that poverty causes crime. Yet now you say that it was the harsh imprisoning policies of Tone and Gordy that led to the middling crime figures of their reign, when good fortuneleft them economic conditions that other governments never dreamed of? Hmm.

[24hoursfromtulsehill]

This is quite an interesting diversion from what would be the standard line you were trotting out in the run up to the election. I am sure that if anyone like me in the course of that debate had advocated hanging and flogging, or at the least imprisoning offenders, you would have painted it as the boss class picking on the maltreated underclass. And it's been a staple of the "left wing" :censored:e you adopted for the sake of this thread that poverty causes crime. Yet now you say that it was the harsh imprisoning policies of Tone and Gordy that led to the middling crime figures of their reign, when good fortuneleft them economic conditions that other governments never dreamed of? Hmm.

 

You mean it didn't happen? Are you sure I would have said this if I'd have said that, and that if anyone said X, I would have said Y? Confident about that are we?

 

I am arguing that Labour cut crime by keeping the economy on an even strain and by locking up baddies. The Tories are sending the economy down the chute, and because they're refusing to lock up criminals for the sake of some wishy-washy, invisible-hand nonsense, crime will go through the roof.

 

Today, if you knock an old lady over the head with a cosh and nick her bag, and if you're unlucky or stupid enough to get caught by one of the remaining police officers, so what? You're not going to jail.

 

Instead, you're going to get a ticking off from the beak and sent back out into the big society, where the old lady in question will no doubt turn out to be the happy volunteer probation officer.

 

Cranky and dangerous thinking from the Tories and the Liberals equals misery on the streets. Just you watch.

Edited July 16, 2010 by 24hoursfromtulsehill