POLL : Do you think Failsworth is in Oldham ?

[Lookers_Carl]

This a pretty big point tbh, kinda outweighs arguments like 'they talk in a Manc accent'.

 

 

Burn him

[beag_teeets]

FW clearly is in Oldham, but it clearly isnt an Oldham Athletic area....

 

Even Futherwood Rd isn't an Oldham Athletic area.

[Senor_Coconut]

Failsworth the town that stands between Manchester and Oldham, from pre-Roman times to the 1970’s...........................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

History beats the 1970s clap trap. and road signs.

 

 

So then it's in the same class as all the other towns in the brough of Oldham.

 

It's as much a part of Oldham as Chadderton, Royton and Shaw.

 

[real]

History beats the 1970s clap trap. and road signs.

 

 

Ok, let's rule out the others then:-

 

"Shaw and Crompton is a town and civil parish within the Metropolitan Borough of Oldham, in Greater Manchester, England.[1] It lies on the River Beal at the foothills of the Pennines, 2.3 miles (3.7 km) north of Oldham, 3.6 miles (5.8 km) southeast of Rochdale, and 8.7 miles (14 km) to the northeast of the city of Manchester. It is regularly referred to as Shaw."

 

"Royton (pop. 21,000) is a town within the Metropolitan Borough of Oldham, in Greater Manchester, England.[1] It lies by the source of the River Irk, on undulating land at the foothills of the Pennines, 1.7 miles (2.7 km) north-northwest of Oldham, 3.2 miles (5.1 km) south-southeast of Rochdale and 7.6 miles (12.2 km) northeast of the city of Manchester."

 

"Chadderton (pop. 33,000) is a town within the Metropolitan Borough of Oldham, in Greater Manchester, England,[1][2] historically a part of Lancashire. It lies along the course of the River Irk and the Rochdale Canal, on undulating land in the foothills of the Pennines, 1 mile (1.6 km) west of Oldham, 4.5 miles (7.2 km) south of Rochdale, and 6 miles (9.7 km) northeast of the city of Manchester."

 

Conversely:-

 

"Hollinwood is an area of Oldham, and an electoral ward of the wider Metropolitan Borough of Oldham, in Greater Manchester, England."

 

So, by your own argument, it's as much a part of Oldham as Shaw, Royton and Chadderton. None of which are "areas of Oldham".

 

I recall saying some time ago that restricting a new ground to OL1 and OL8 would never be a viable plan. Hey ho.

[real]

Coco did I say it wasnt. Its all irrelevant its going to Failsworth. However as you know people in Royton Shaw etc have considered themselves Oldhamers dont think thats the case with Failsworth in general as tend to go into Manchester out of choice this debate is just all opinions and polarised opinion.

 

Have you lived in Shaw?

 

Oldhamers might consider Gawbies as Oldhamers, but gawbies most certainly do not. I suspect most of your opinions are based on the assumption that if you think something is so, then it is.

As I stated earlier it was common practice to use "Nr Oldham" in postal addresses for Shaw. That is pretty strong evidence.

Chadderton refused to join with Oldham on repeated occasions throughout the1950s, until the 1974 changes forced the merger.

 

Please, try reading a little more widely around the subject if you are going to try to establish a case. You need to look at the potential contradictions in your points, rather than blindly using things that support your view whilst ignoring those that do not.

[opinions4u]

Surely Shaw must be in Rochdale.

 

Why, some of them even have 01706 dialling codes!

[Yard Dog]

L_C, how is your suggested poll question different to mine?

[real]

OK where is it?

 

 

Could be Crewe?

[Lookers_Carl]

L_C, how is your suggested poll question different to mine?

 

'Do you think failsworth is in oldham' is like asking 'do you think the earth revolves around the sun'. Failsworth is in oldham, that is as concrete as the earth revolving around the sun, and will be untill the powers that be decide it is no longer part of OMBC, regardless of whether the people from failsworth talk with manc accents or perceive themselves to be from/living in manchester (much as in the same way some people in Sale consider themselves to live in cheshire)

 

But as some people have said to me in response to this, its about perceptions, going beyond the geographical boundaries, about whether the people of Failsworth consider themselves to be part of Oldham, or whether people who consider themselves to be oldham born and bred consider Failsworth to be part of Oldham. Hence my question focuses on the perception, rather than the fact, as the fact is it comes under OMBC, the people who live there pay their rates to OMBC, and as Senor said, it is as much a part of Oldham as Shaw, Chadderton, Royton etc.

 

 

 

[opinions4u]

Could be Crewe?

Think it is Crewe.

[Ernie For England]

Ok then, rephrase the question

 

"Do you perceive Failsworth to be part of Oldham"

 

to this question no there is no definitive answer or bottom line. But to the question

 

"Is Failsworth part of Oldham"

 

Then there really is a simple bottom line answer, which is yes it is part of Oldham, and has been since 1974.

 

The poll doesn't say "is failsworth part of oldham." It says "do you THINK failsworth is in oldham" which to me is the same as "do you perceive failsworth to be part of oldham."

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way the poll is worded.

 

 

[Lookers_Carl]

The poll doesn't say "is failsworth part of oldham." It says "do you THINK failsworth is in oldham" which to me is the same as "do you perceive failsworth to be part of oldham."

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way the poll is worded.

 

Ok then, maybe it needs to be rephrased as

 

'Irrespective of the geographical boundaries, do you see Failsworth as being part of Oldham'

 

That way the emphasis is on the personal perception, and it fully acknowledges that Failsworth does come under OMBC, the people who live there pay their rates to OMBC, and that technically, it is oldham.

 

As I said earlier re how the question is worded, 'do you think failsworth is part of oldham', is like asking

 

- Do you think London is the capital of England

- Do you think s**t is brown

- Do you think the earth is round

- Do you think that if I jump of a roof I will fall to the ground

[Matt]

Ok then, maybe it needs to be rephrased as

As I said earlier re how the question is worded, 'do you think failsworth is part of oldham', is like asking

 

- Do you think London is the capital of England

- Do you think s**t is brown

- Do you think the earth is round

- Do you think that if I jump of a roof I will fall to the ground

For what it's worth, you're right - but nobody will listen. So why bother? Cleetus thinks the Earth is flat - sometimes you just can't change that, no matter how right you are.

[Yard Dog]

The poll doesn't say "is failsworth part of oldham." It says "do you THINK failsworth is in oldham" which to me is the same as "do you perceive failsworth to be part of oldham."

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way the poll is worded.

 

Thank you.

 

Especially when you read it in conjunction with post 1.

[SAV]

clog-fighting, where men in heavy wooden boots would hold I each other’s arms and take it in turns to kick each other in the shins until one or the other was too crippled to fight on.

 

Then have a night at the dogs!!!

 

 

[Yard Dog]

For what it's worth, you're right - but nobody will listen. So why bother? Cleetus thinks the Earth is flat - sometimes you just can't change that, no matter how right you are.

 

Well that depends whether or not you think the statement 'Failsworth is in Oldham' is an indisputable fact - which I happen to not think.

 

Saying Failsworth is in Oldham, for me, is like saying Middleton is in Rochdale...and yes 'real' and 'coco' it is also like saying Shaw is in Oldham

[Lookers_Carl]

Well that depends whether or not you think the statement 'Failsworth is in Oldham' is an indisputable fact - which I happen to not think.

 

Saying Failsworth is in Oldham, for me, is like saying Middleton is in Rochdale...and yes 'real' and 'coco' it is also like saying Shaw is in Oldham

 

 

Bit the statement 'failsworth is in Oldham' is an indisputable fact untill the powers that be change the boundaries to dictate otherwise. Failsworth falls within the boundaries of OMBC, the people there pay their rates to OMBC. Its in Oldham end of story.

 

Whether the people from there associate themselves with Oldham or Manchester is a different argument alltogether, and is their choice, and a different argument alltogether.

 

 

[Matt]

Well that depends whether or not you think the statement 'Failsworth is in Oldham' is an indisputable fact - which I happen to not think.

 

Saying Failsworth is in Oldham, for me, is like saying Middleton is in Rochdale...and yes 'real' and 'coco' it is also like saying Shaw is in Oldham

What counts is the political lie of the land (astrophysics) in this case. Failsworth (the Earth) is in Oldham (rotates around the Sun). These are the facts. Whether one wants to believe that or not is entirely up to the individual.

 

The facts still remain however.

[real]

Saying Failsworth is in Oldham, for me, is like saying Middleton is in Rochdale...and yes 'real' and 'coco' it is also like saying Shaw is in Oldham

 

Fair Point. My view is that once we rule out all the places that aren't actually "Oldham" (in the true and proper sense of it), we're left with some of OL1, all of OL8 and not much else

(OL2 is Shaw/Royton, 3&4 are Saddleworth (a bit of 3 might be up to County end?), 5,6,7,9,10 and up are not in it).

 

I would say that what most people are arguing over is the position of Failsworth in relation to 2 different things:-

 

Oldham - the Town

Oldham - the Metropolitan Borough

Edited May 23, 2010 by real

[slurms mckenzie]

Well, what a couple of dozen of people on Facebook said 2 or 3 years ago must swing the argument.

 

One of them did actually post:i take it this question means is failsworth oldham or manchester? it never has been part of manchester before it was under oldham it was failswoth urban district council failsworth people have never paid a cent to manchester city council.

as for post codes, try telling the peolple of salford that they're part of manchester because they have a manchester post code and see what response you get. post codes mean nothing. rochdale has an oldham post code, according to that logic stalybridge is part of stockport

Wrong, doesn't swing any argument, when there isn't an argument to be had, the rest of it is just semantics. Failsworth people don't consider themselves to be Oldhamers whatever people who have racked up thousands upon thousands of posts on here happen to think. Additionally, every other message on the link I supplied (other than the one you quoted) ranges from "of course I'm a Manc" to calling us "BIFFOs (Big Ignorant F----- From Old-dum) and "F--- off Oldham".

 

They don't want us there, we don't want to go.

 

New Moston, Newton Heath, Failsworth etc. I'm sure they are all lovely places, its just an insulting to expect us to swallow a football team being on the borders of these 3 areas should be representative of the town of Oldham.

 

 

QUOTE (slurms mckenzie @ May 23 2010, 10:21 AM) Whatever a handful of posters on here think, many of which dont even live in the area, people who live in Failsworth do not consider themselves to be Oldhamers. But this bit is based on what exactly? Your findings on facebook? Or just your opinion from Morrside?

 

There is no logic in building a new stadium 3 miles within Manchester City, in an area where we have absolutely no support whatsover, other than that fact that land is cheaper on the outskirts of Newton Heath than it is in Oldham. The thought of every two weeks, thousands travellig from Oldham, Shaw, Royton and Chadderton to the outskirts of Manchester makes no sense either environmentally or logistically.

 

I would also hope that the club changes its name from Oldham Athletic to Manchester North End or whatever, because my club which has been proudly represented by such legends as Andy Ritchie, Hasn't he recently come out in favour of the move? Roger Palmer, Earl Barrett, David Eyres etc would not be my club, or the club of Oldham if it is located in the suggested area. Similar to the MK Dons situationThey moved about 60 miles from Plough Lane, That's like moving to York or Stafford, Lancaster or past Liverpool into the Irish Sea. 60 miles is the same as 3 miles? Yeah!, the club couldn't possibly retain the Oldham name. It would be insulting to suggest that it would be the same club.

 

But this bit is based on what exactly? Your findings on facebook? Or just your opinion from Morrside(sic) (illustrates your poor knowledge of Oldham if you haven't heard of Moorside!) My girlfriend has family from Failsworth, and I work with people from Failsworth. None of them see themselves as Oldhamers. I also drink round Failsworth sometimes and the chaps I know from there certainly do not consider themselves as Oldhamers. The odd latic on here that happens to come from there, doesn't change the fact that Failsworth people do not see themselves as Oldhamers.

 

Andy Ritchie, Hasn't he recently come out in favour of the move? Nope, if you read beyond the headline, he stated "They need to get to pastures new – which I know is dividing the spectators – but they need a new stadium as soon as they can "Whether it’s a new ground on the same site then fine, but if not, you have to say they have to go to Failsworth." "When you go there now, it’s a sad place with the stand knocked down and it doesn’t have the same atmosphere it used to". Hardly a ringing endorsement from Andy, we all know that we need a new stadium thanks to the calamitous decision to knock the lookers.

 

They moved about 60 miles from Plough Lane, That's like moving to York or Stafford, Lancaster or past Liverpool into the Irish Sea. 60 miles is the same as 3 miles? Yeah!, It is similar, as like MK Dons, we're moving into an area, where we will need to establish a new fan base to replace large chunks of the old one which will be lost.

Edited May 23, 2010 by slurms mckenzie

[Yard Dog]

Fair Point. My view is that once we rule out all the places that aren't actually "Oldham" (in the true and proper sense of it), we're left with some of OL1, all of OL8 and not much else

(OL2 is Shaw/Royton, 3&4 are Saddleworth (a bit of 3 might be up to County end?), 5,6,7,9,10 and up are not in it).

 

I would say that what most people are arguing over is the position of Failsworth in relation to 2 different things:-

 

Oldham - the Town

Oldham - the Metropolitan Borough

 

Totally understand. But many people would be far more comfortable with a site in Chadd, Shaw or Royton as those areas have strong ties to Oldham, and many (though definitely not all) of the residents of those areas class themselves as Oldhamers.

 

[Lookers_Carl]

Totally understand. But many people would be far more comfortable with a site in Chadd, Shaw or Royton as those areas have strong ties to Oldham, and many (though definitely not all) of the residents of those areas class themselves as Oldhamers.

 

I live in South Chadderton, right on the border and I think its fair to say there is a split of ppl who consider themselves living in Manchester or living in Oldham. This will probably be the same in any town that lies on the border. But the fact remains where I live is in Oldham so it doesnt matter how I perceive it to be.

 

Regarding the sites, we have had this argument before, only feasible sites are

 

Boundary Park Redevelopment: Most peoples preferred option but not financially viable.

Ferney Field: Farmer doesnt want to sell the land to us, so not much that can be done.

Higginshaw Gasworks: Land contaminated. Not enough £££ to bring it up to standards

Beal Valley: It is a flood plane and only near single carriageway roads

 

Leaving only...

 

Failsworth: Site is decent but the location is too close to Manchester for many peoples liking.

 

We stay where we are in crumbleville, the club will soon disappear. As Ian Hill has said many times, if you can find another 30 acre site closer to Oldham, go and tell them

[Yard Dog]

Look at the list of streets that are closest to the ground :

 

* Broadway from Lancaster Club to junction with Nuthurst Road

* Nuthurst Road between The Fairway and Risworth Drive New Moston

* Park Avenue New Moston

* West Avenue New Moston

* Bridport Avenue New Moston

* Barlea Avenue New Moston

* Onslow Avenue New Moston

* Risworth Drive New Moston

* A62 Oldham Road from Brown Street to Mill Street

* Hulton Street

* Hardman Street

* Ridgefield Street

* Mellor Street

* Poplar Street

* Albert Street West

* Mill Street

* Hobson Street

* Mill Lane

* Morton Street

* Hale Lane

* Old Road

* Bethel Avenue

* Booth Street

* Dean Street

* Mather Street

* Dalton Street

* Ash Street

* Beech Street

* Broadway, from Junction with Nuthurst Road to Moston Lane East New Moston

* Nevin Road New Moston

* Heppleton Road New Moston

* Annesley Road New Moston

* Chatwood Road New Moston

* Parkhurst Avenue New Moston

* Weston Avenue New Moston

* Eastwood Road New Moston

* Belgrave Road New Moston

* Dean Lane up to junction with Joyce Street Moston

* Winifred Road Moston

* Reliance Street Newton Heath

* Oldham Road south side between Hopwood Street and Eager Street Newton Heath

* Dulverton Street Newton Heath

* Old Church Street Newton Heath

* May Street Newton Heath

* Silk Street Newton Heath

* Holyoak street Newton Heath

* Swift Walk Newton Heath

* Pirie Walk Newton Heath

* Gaskell Street Newton Heath

* Queensferry Street Newton Heath

* Dob Brook Close Newton Heath

* Stott Street

* Miriam Street

* Ashworth Street

* Farm Street

* Greaves Avenue

* Brooks Drive

* Propps Hall Drive

* Marlborough Drive

* Hoylake Close Moston

* Greenways Moston

* Dalmahoy Close Moston

* Carnoustie Close Moston

* Calverton Drive Moston

* Leyton Avenue (off Joyce Street) Moston

* Arbory Avenue (off Joyce Street) Moston

* Lindrick Close Moston

* Millfield Close Moston

* The Fairway Moston

* Muirfield Close Moston

* The Links Moston

* Guillane Close Moston

* Williams Road Moston

* Boar Green Close Moston

* Joyce Street Moston

* Shelley Street Moston

* Dresden Street Moston

* Clapham Street Moston

[Ernie For England]

Lets be honest, this debate is never going to end. Everyone has their own views about failsworth and they are not going to change no matter how much we go on about it. I think we've reached stalemate

[Lookers_Carl]

Look at the list of streets that are closest to the ground :

 

* Broadway from Lancaster Club to junction with Nuthurst Road

* Nuthurst Road between The Fairway and Risworth Drive New Moston

* Park Avenue New Moston

* West Avenue New Moston

* Bridport Avenue New Moston

* Barlea Avenue New Moston

* Onslow Avenue New Moston

* Risworth Drive New Moston

* A62 Oldham Road from Brown Street to Mill Street

* Hulton Street

* Hardman Street

* Ridgefield Street

* Mellor Street

* Poplar Street

* Albert Street West

* Mill Street

* Hobson Street

* Mill Lane

* Morton Street

* Hale Lane

* Old Road

* Bethel Avenue

* Booth Street

* Dean Street

* Mather Street

* Dalton Street

* Ash Street

* Beech Street

* Broadway, from Junction with Nuthurst Road to Moston Lane East New Moston

* Nevin Road New Moston

* Heppleton Road New Moston

* Annesley Road New Moston

* Chatwood Road New Moston

* Parkhurst Avenue New Moston

* Weston Avenue New Moston

* Eastwood Road New Moston

* Belgrave Road New Moston

* Dean Lane up to junction with Joyce Street Moston

* Winifred Road Moston

* Reliance Street Newton Heath

* Oldham Road south side between Hopwood Street and Eager Street Newton Heath

* Dulverton Street Newton Heath

* Old Church Street Newton Heath

* May Street Newton Heath

* Silk Street Newton Heath

* Holyoak street Newton Heath

* Swift Walk Newton Heath

* Pirie Walk Newton Heath

* Gaskell Street Newton Heath

* Queensferry Street Newton Heath

* Dob Brook Close Newton Heath

* Stott Street

* Miriam Street

* Ashworth Street

* Farm Street

* Greaves Avenue

* Brooks Drive

* Propps Hall Drive

* Marlborough Drive

* Hoylake Close Moston

* Greenways Moston

* Dalmahoy Close Moston

* Carnoustie Close Moston

* Calverton Drive Moston

* Leyton Avenue (off Joyce Street) Moston

* Arbory Avenue (off Joyce Street) Moston

* Lindrick Close Moston

* Millfield Close Moston

* The Fairway Moston

* Muirfield Close Moston

* The Links Moston

* Guillane Close Moston

* Williams Road Moston

* Boar Green Close Moston

* Joyce Street Moston

* Shelley Street Moston

* Dresden Street Moston

* Clapham Street Moston

 

I think this smiley is entirely appropriate

 

 

That simply because it is on the border. This would be the case with many other towns on the border, and is the case with the area of chadderton I live in. Next street along is old moston. Its irrelevant as it still comes under OMBC, regardless of whether the people there consider themselves as mancs, regardless of whether 'oldhamers' see failsworth as oldham or manc, and regardless of whether it is closer to Manc town centre than Oldham town centre It comes under the area of land that constitutes OMBC as is as much a part of Oldham as Shaw, Chadderton, Saddleworth etc. Get over it.

 

Where a suburb actually lies, and where the people from that suburb perceive ther suburb to lie are two different things.

 

Can completely understand the argument that the territory may not be Latics friendly, that it may be too close to manchester, too close to city territory etc. But the fact remains it is still comes under OMBC.