The Trust

[singe]

When the TTA were continuiing to underwrite losses, it would have been very difficult to have any significant Trust money coming in.

Now it is is possibly only Simon Corney, this has menat there is less money being underwritten.

i) It costs roughly £1.5m a year to operate OAFC, money that seems beyond the scope of the Trust.

ii) The Trust gives £1000/month £12,000 per season on average from current membership

iii) Barry Owen, has Chairman, has strongly advocated the Trust giving to day-to-day costs, one summises that Simon Corney would prefer this.

 

 

................Year......... Month....... Week

................1,500,000..129,808....28,846

1,000........1,500..............130...........29

3,500........429..................37.............8

5,000........300..................26.............6

Edited July 12, 2010 by singe

[singe]

Hi Mods, can you have look, I get this

You did not choose a poll choice to vote against. Please go back and ensure you click on one of the radio buttons next to the choice you wish to vote for

When I try and vote not sure if it is the same for everoyone else

[Matt]

I think one has to respond to both polls unfortunately.

[Stevie_J]

I think one has to respond to both polls unfortunately.

Unless you amend to build all responses into a single question.

[singe]

Cheers Rummy, Steve,

By all means delte the posts so it makes sense, and puts people off who think the poll does not work

 

[Matt]

Unless you amend to build all responses into a single question.

Ah yes, of course.

[real]

When the TTA were continuiing to underwrite losses, it would have been very difficult to have any significant Trust money coming in.

Now it is is possibly only Simon Corney, this has menat there is less money being underwritten.

i) It costs roughly £1.5m a year to operate OAFC, money that seems beyond the scope of the Trust.

ii) The Trust gives £1000/month £12,000 per season on average from current membership

iii) Barry Owen, has Chairman, has strongly advocated the Trust giving to day-to-day costs, one summises that Simon Corney would prefer this.

 

 

................Year......... Month....... Week

................1,500,000..129,808....28,846

1,000........1,500..............130...........29

3,500........429..................37.............8

5,000........300..................26.............6

 

 

Isn't the shortfall £15k a week though?

 

The £1.5m (is that rght?) a year operating costs is part funded by the various revenue streams - gate receipts / STs, TV money, advertising money, food franchises, beer franchises, betting franchises etc.

 

To cover the £15k a week from 3000 pockets would take £5 per person. You wouldn't get 3000 doing it though.

 

 

All of this though is skirting round the big issue.

 

What are Simon Blitz and Danny Gazal's intentions for the land that they own around BP, and for the land they own in Failsworth?

In the event that they sell this land, what will the impact be on the club?

 

Would such sales be done in the best interest of the club as they have (I think) always stated they would be?

[singe]

Isn't the shortfall £15k a week though?

 

The £1.5m (is that rght?) a year operating costs is part funded by the various revenue streams - gate receipts / STs, TV money, advertising money, food franchises, beer franchises, betting franchises etc.

 

To cover the £15k a week from 3000 pockets would take £5 per person. You wouldn't get 3000 doing it though.

 

 

All of this though is skirting round the big issue.

 

What are Simon Blitz and Danny Gazal's intentions for the land that they own around BP, and for the land they own in Failsworth?

In the event that they sell this land, what will the impact be on the club?

 

Would such sales be done in the best interest of the club as they have (I think) always stated they would be?

Tis a good point

I was doing this to a previous point of the Trust taking over completley.

Over L&E and LL for the best figures to use.

Edited July 11, 2010 by singe

[singe]

AS at 10.00 Monday 12th after 51 votes

Intereting split in the votes depending on whether you are a Trust member or not.

 

Trust members

18 votes

Day-Day....1...............6%

Rainy-Day..0...............0%

Both.........17.............94%

18

 

Non Trust members

 

Day-Day....3...............9%

Rainy-Day.18............55%

Both..........12...........36%

33

Edited July 12, 2010 by singe

[stevesmitt]

Isn't the shortfall £15k a week though?

 

The £1.5m (is that rght?) a year operating costs is part funded by the various revenue streams - gate receipts / STs, TV money, advertising money, food franchises, beer franchises, betting franchises etc.

 

To cover the £15k a week from 3000 pockets would take £5 per person. You wouldn't get 3000 doing it though.

 

 

All of this though is skirting round the big issue.

 

What are Simon Blitz and Danny Gazal's intentions for the land that they own around BP, and for the land they own in Failsworth?

In the event that they sell this land, what will the impact be on the club?

 

Would such sales be done in the best interest of the club as they have (I think) always stated they would be?

 

surely if the club didnt franchise the betting, food and beer and ran them themself we could earn a good chunck of the 15k a week needed.

[Ackey]

surely if the club didnt franchise the betting, food and beer and ran them themself we could earn a good chunck of the 15k a week needed.

It's not that simple though, is it?

 

I know the club make mistakes but if they were making more before they outsources those services than they are now I'm pretty sure they'd change back, no?

[lookers87]

surely if the club didnt franchise the betting, food and beer and ran them themself we could earn a good chunck of the 15k a week needed.

 

Not really, the costs involved and cashflow of buying/selling stock, staff wages etc along with the whole operation of it mean that the franchise is probably the better option. We aren't alone, majority of pl and fl clubs do the same.

 

One thing I hope the club is taking more interest in is revisiting the marketing/partnerships with businesses. I did a lot of work including putting a plan together for how this could work off my own back. Increasing revenue streams into the clubs outside of many of the outdated marketing/hospitality packages. None of which need to increase marketing costs and utilise the existing infrastructure open to the club.

 

 

I take a fairly neutral view on the Trust, I believe they have lost their way (but let's face it the club haven't exactly been the beacon of vision and planning), and I see a huge number of problems with them, the current culture and decision making. But they have many dedicated people who want to look after the club, and it is times like these that they step up.

However, one thing I definately would not like to see is the Trust embarking on a fund-raising campaign with the sole intention of all monies raised going straight to the club. Looking at it from a business pov, as a minor shareholder in a business I would never expect to pump cash into a business when I have no ultimate say over the outcome. And unless Simon and Danny have transfered shares to Corney, then ultimately he's in an even weaker position.

Raise money, please I will back that in all ways I can, but retain control over those monies, they may be really necessary later!!

 

As an aside I would like the club to be looking at appointing some new directors soon - investors or not, the club needs some good business heads and contacts on the board now more than ever to open as many doors as possible.

[stevesmitt]

It's not that simple though, is it?

 

I know the club make mistakes but if they were making more before they outsources those services than they are now I'm pretty sure they'd change back, no?

 

the caterers and bookies obviously pay latics a fee to work there, they might make £1000 each profit and pay latics say £400 leaving them with £600 for themself. if latics ran them they would make the whole £1000. obviously i dont know exact figures but with food, beer and the bookies the club will be losing out on a decent amount each game. these companys are taking money of the fans which could be going to the club.

 

[Ackey]

the caterers and bookies obviously pay latics a fee to work there, they might make £1000 each profit and pay latics say £400 leaving them with £600 for themself. if latics ran them they would make the whole £1000. obviously i dont know exact figures but with food, beer and the bookies the club will be losing out on a decent amount each game. these companys are taking money of the fans which could be going to the club.

It's not that black and white though is it?

 

I say again, if it was simple for Latics to make more money doing it themselves what would the motivation be to move to an outsourced system?

[stevesmitt]

It's not that black and white though is it?

 

I say again, if it was simple for Latics to make more money doing it themselves what would the motivation be to move to an outsourced system?

i dont know, that would be a question for the club not me. i just can't see how the club doing it themself would have any more overheads than what the caterers or the bookies have got.

[De_La_Vega]

i dont know, that would be a question for the club not me. i just can't see how the club doing it themself would have any more overheads than what the caterers or the bookies have got.

It is usually about bulk buying of stock (that one club may not be able to do compared to a catering concern with year round requirements) and the fact that if I wanted to run the catering at Latics I could pay myself a wage out of the profits (the £600 you mention for instance) and do it. The club would still have to pay the wage of the person doing that job, whether it was me or not, and so there isn't the guarantee that they would actually turn any profit.

[Ackey]

i dont know, that would be a question for the club not me. i just can't see how the club doing it themself would have any more overheads than what the caterers or the bookies have got.

So you state the club are wrong to outsource, "The bookies the club will be losing out on a decent amount each game. these companys are taking money of the fans which could be going to the club", but when asked to consider that it might in fact be more profitable that way you say you don't know I'd have to ask the club?

 

I'm not trying to have a go at you mate - it's just frustrating when people make bold and blind assumptions that the club is wrong.

[RoyleArmy]

So you state the club are wrong to outsource, "The bookies the club will be losing out on a decent amount each game. these companys are taking money of the fans which could be going to the club", but when asked to consider that it might in fact be more profitable that way you say you don't know I'd have to ask the club?

 

I'm not trying to have a go at you mate - it's just frustrating when people make bold and blind assumptions that the club is wrong.

 

 

Good post to read agree

[singe]

i dont know, that would be a question for the club not me. i just can't see how the club doing it themself would have any more overheads than what the caterers or the bookies have got.

This is in my area of work.

It's the same as many smallish biusinesses.

It's much less hassle for someone else to do it

You have have to have a reasonable amount of people on the payroll to cover it, the hasle of covering someone of sick etc, and not having anyone else to call upon.

You'd pay a person just to manage it.

Particualarly at football games there will be wide variances in stock.

You can move that around (at cost) if catering is your business but Latics would not be ab le to , not at a loss anyway.

So although it can make sense in house (part of my role) often it make sense to outsource, leaving Latics toconcentrate on course business of being a football club.

I'd say for the staffing hasles's it's worth outsourcing alone.

 

Whether that compnay is doing a good job, and best for it, is a whoel new ball game.

But emailing the club if it runs out of pies, surly staff is the best instant communication there is.

It's in black and white and something to hold the caterers to account.

It depends on the level of Supervision built into the contract.

 

It seems closely monitored though, given that we (well gordon!) chooses the pies!

 

[stevesmitt]

It is usually about bulk buying of stock (that one club may not be able to do compared to a catering concern with year round requirements) and the fact that if I wanted to run the catering at Latics I could pay myself a wage out of the profits (the £600 you mention for instance) and do it. The club would still have to pay the wage of the person doing that job, whether it was me or not, and so there isn't the guarantee that they would actually turn any profit.

 

i disagree. you wouldnt need someone to run the catering, you would need your part-time match day staff (5hrs) and 1 person to do a full day on match days and as far as bulk buying goes you can go to any cash and carry and put a burger or hotdog together for 35p so if you was to bulk buy in large quantities you might get it down to 25p saving 10p an item which sell at around £2.50 which is only 4% extra profit which is very little.

 

the bookies would need the same match day staff and somebody to do a little research on the internet getting the odds together.

Edited July 12, 2010 by stevesmitt

[stevesmitt]

This is in my area of work.

It's the same as many smallish biusinesses.

It's much less hassle for someone else to do it

You have have to have a reasonable amount of people on the payroll to cover it, the hasle of covering someone of sick etc, and not having anyone else to call upon.

You'd pay a person just to manage it.

Particualarly at football games there will be wide variances in stock.

You can move that around (at cost) if catering is your business but Latics would not be ab le to , not at a loss anyway.

So although it can make sense in house (part of my role) often it make sense to outsource, leaving Latics toconcentrate on course business of being a football club.

I'd say for the staffing hasles's it's worth outsourcing alone.

 

Whether that compnay is doing a good job, and best for it, is a whoel new ball game.

But emailing the club if it runs out of pies, surly staff is the best instant communication there is.

It's in black and white and something to hold the caterers to account.

It depends on the level of Supervision built into the contract.

 

It seems closely monitored though, given that we (well gordon!) chooses the pies!

i agree that there would be a lot of work involved and the easiest thing is to get caterers in to do it but would latics really be worse off finacially doing it themself?

[Ackey]

i disagree. you wouldnt need someone to run the catering, you would need your part-time match day staff (5hrs) and 1 person to do a full day on match days and as far as bulk buying goes you can go to any cash and carry and put a burger or hotdog together for 35p so if you was to bulk buy in large quantities you might get it down to 25p saving 10p an item which sell at around £2.50 which is only 4% extra profit which is very little.

If this was true, which it isn't, why would the catering firm - Azure - employ someone to work at Boundary Park 5 days a week, plus matchdays?

 

Do you think staff just organise themselves? Turning up without being told, paying themselves, they bring their own till floats and pay their money into the bank.

 

Not to mention they bring the food from the cash and carry like you say (misunderstanding completely the essence of buying in bulk!)...

 

 

Man, you're so wide of the mark.

[leeslover]

i agree that there would be a lot of work involved and the easiest thing is to get caterers in to do it but would latics really be worse off finacially doing it themself?

I'd hate to see Gordon Ramsey brought in on that one! Seriously mate it would be a disaster. You are talking about a very tight window to serve as much food and drink with very limited facilities in a very short space and time, and you just want someone to go down to the cash and carry and buy a load of hot dogs on Saturday morning after SC guesses how many we are going to sell? It wouldn't work... I do believe that a properly designed ground could kick the arse off of any existing ones by offering the food that fans really want - Exeter shows part of the way. But for now, we do as best as we can I think. I was told that we make more money from the current arrangemsnt than we ever did in house.

[real]

i agree that there would be a lot of work involved and the easiest thing is to get caterers in to do it but would latics really be worse off finacially doing it themself?

 

 

"QUOTE (stevesmitt @ Jul 12 2010, 17:26 PM)

i disagree. you wouldnt need someone to run the catering, you would need your part-time match day staff (5hrs) and 1 person to do a full day on match days."

 

 

You've agreed with one person that it's a lot of work, and disagreed with another, claiming it doesn't take much.

 

 

How many pies doe you think get sold? I'd guess maybe 1000.

 

If you can up the profit by 10p you'd get £100 a game. £2.3k a year. Ok, not to be sniffed at, but maybe the people you'd have shuffling down to the cash & carry could find a more lucrative way to use their time?

And maybe Azure get that 10p through their own bulk buying, and therefore are actually cost neutral?

 

 

 

 

 

[singe]

"QUOTE (stevesmitt @ Jul 12 2010, 17:26 PM)

i disagree. you wouldnt need someone to run the catering, you would need your part-time match day staff (5hrs) and 1 person to do a full day on match days."

 

 

You've agreed with one person that it's a lot of work, and disagreed with another, claiming it doesn't take much.

 

 

How many pies doe you think get sold? I'd guess maybe 1000.

 

If you can up the profit by 10p you'd get £100 a game. £2.3k a year. Ok, not to be sniffed at, but maybe the people you'd have shuffling down to the cash & carry could find a more lucrative way to use their time?

And maybe Azure get that 10p through their own bulk buying, and therefore are actually cost neutral?

Real is quite right.

Azure operate quite a large number of stadia.

Hence their contract with a Catering supplier, which will include delivery, will offest the price at a cash and carry or even a national supplier that Latics can procure.

As easy as it is to make money in house it is easy to lose with less control over costs etc

And that is before you get into demotivated staff.

One assumes the playing staff and other staff eat during training. So there is all that catering,

 

Steve, with all due respect, can I ask what do you do.

It's a mistake to assume someone elses job is a piece of cake if you don't understand it.

Edited July 13, 2010 by singe