24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 No, I get what you mean, perhaps I should have addedd a funny face smiley? Like so. On a more serious note, I think perhaps it's not the 'marriage thing' that should attract the tax break - I think that's a hangover from the married couples allowance which was brought in I'd imagine when it was actually possible for one of the couple to actually stay at home and be mum. Or dad of course. I don't know that for sure but it would make sense if that was the reason it was originally introduced. I'd hope the incentives are more likely to be to promote the stable family unit and perhaps discourage the 'have babies for benefits' generation. Perhaps the tax breaks need to be somehow tied in to the reduction/removal of child benefits. Fair dos. I worry that by giving married folks a tax break you're saying to non-married folks that they're a little bit crap, when they're not. Very Tory is that. Like Back to Basics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Reasonable point... I suppose that is why the state pension is dying on its arse... Ageing population etc... DING. Half right, as it's those folks that vote - so the money comes from elsewhere. Look forward to the removal of Child Benefit, out of work benefits, working tax credits and all the rest - and a rise in taxes for all workers. This is a state ruined and run by the grey brigade. The current generation is underpopulated and apathetic. A rise in state pensions, winter fuel allowance, free everything for OAPs will win votes and therefore will happen at the expense of the younger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Fair dos. I worry that by giving married folks a tax break you're saying to non-married folks that they're a little bit crap, when they're not. Very Tory is that. Like Back to Basics. Well it is certainly saying that unmarried people should pay married people money, just for that reason alone. It is the exact statement you made. They are saying that any unmarried couple is not as good as a married couple, and if you are single you should be put in some form of township in the bottom left of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mckenzie Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 There was uproar at the Conservative Party Conference this week when it was announced that Child Benefit was to be axed for Higher Rate taxpayers. In principle, PISTRVOR agrees with this step, which perhaps may go a very small way towards plugging the huge public finance gap caused by profiteers within the financial sector. However, the Tories rapidly backtracked by committing themselves to a nondescript tax break for married couples, removing any improvements to the budget made by cuts in Child Benefit. This “fag packet economics” and reactionary nonsense has to be challenged. The longer the coalition Government is allowed to steer the country towards economic chaos, the more difficult the recovery will be. What is almost as disturbing was the media’s uproar regarding the loss of this benefit; compare this to the deafening silence when Surestart’s budget was to be cut. For those who are unaware, Surestart is a children’s services programme, specifically directed towards less well off parents. Similar was the complete media blackout of coverage with the axing of the Building Schools for the Future programme. This undoubtedly proves that the media, and indeed the Conservative Party, are more concerned about middle class England and their wealthy paymasters than the requirements of the neediest and underprivileged. The most important duty of every single Government should be education. Without sufficient funding in education, especially for those who most need it, all other expenses will rise including the cost of law and order and payments in unemployment benefit. This Government has to realise that education is of paramount importance. Everything else, including social engineering and benefits for the rich, are not. This is the comment taken from my left leaning economic/political blog on this debacle. http://paulistherealvoiceofreason.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 This is the comment taken from my left leaning economic/political blog on this debacle. http://paulistherealvoiceofreason.blogspot.com/ Surestart is a brilliant service that should be expanded and not cut... The cutting of building program winds me up. I accept not all schools needed rebuilding but a bloody lot do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 This is the comment taken from my left leaning economic/political blog on this debacle. http://paulistherealvoiceofreason.blogspot.com/ S'very good is that. Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Surestart is a brilliant service that should be expanded and not cut... The cutting of building program winds me up. I accept not all schools needed rebuilding but a bloody lot do... I would rather have my kids well taught in a tent than badly taught in a state of the art £100m building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 I would rather have my kids well taught in a tent than badly taught in a state of the art £100m building. Facilities have an impact on teaching... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Facilities have an impact on teaching... But a great teacher has more impact than a great building. Unfortunately my experience of the state sector (11+) is that great teachers are not just the exception to the rule, they are virtually extinct. (I'm not saying that we shouldn't have great school buildings, or even modest repairs to knackered school buildings, but the individual delivering the teaching is by far the most important of the two). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 But a great teacher has more impact than a great building. Unfortunately my experience of the state sector (11+) is that great teachers are not just the exception to the rule, they are virtually extinct. (I'm not saying that we shouldn't have great school buildings, or even modest repairs to knackered school buildings, but the individual delivering the teaching is by far the most important of the two). I don't think its an either / or option though... We should have both... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I don't think its an either / or option though... We should have both... Which brings it all back to the question of how to pay for it. Given that the NHS is currently being funded entirely by borrowing, how can the nation afford to pay for it? Life is a compromise, Gordy's lot forgot to compromise on their spending and there's a mess left behind. I would agree that great teachers with great faciltiies is a worthy objective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Which brings it all back to the question of how to pay for it. Given that the NHS is currently being funded entirely by borrowing, how can the nation afford to pay for it? Life is a compromise, Gordy's lot forgot to compromise on their spending and there's a mess left behind. I would agree that great teachers with great faciltiies is a worthy objective. If someone wants more taxes from me to pay for education and the NHS I am all ears... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 I get quite angry at this idea of "free schools"... Total crock of :censored:... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 If someone wants more taxes from me to pay for education and the NHS I am all ears... Ah, but you've got to pay for the crap that doesn't directly benefit you too. I wish we could all pick and choose what we want to pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Ah, but you've got to pay for the crap that doesn't directly benefit you too. I wish we could all pick and choose what we want to pay for. Which I am also fine to pay for... Who was picking and choosing ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 If someone wants more taxes from me to pay for education and the NHS I am all ears... I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm fairly confident it's not hedge funds. I'd rather they paid. If the free market worked, wealth generators such as hedge funds and casino banks (by repute) would sponsor school buildings and pay for promising young things to go through teacher training. They don't, because they don't give a toss. So you take it off them with taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm fairly confident it's not hedge funds. I'd rather they paid. If the free market worked, wealth generators such as hedge funds and casino banks (by repute) would sponsor school buildings and pay for promising young things to go through teacher training. They don't, because they don't give a toss. So you take it off them with taxes. Oh I agree... but I don't mind contributing my fair share either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I don't know what you do for a living, but I'm fairly confident it's not hedge funds. I'd rather they paid. If the free market worked, wealth generators such as hedge funds and casino banks (by repute) would sponsor school buildings and pay for promising young things to go through teacher training. They don't, because they don't give a toss. So you take it off them with taxes. And you squeeze them to the point where they up sticks and go and set up their operations in another country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldhamSheridan Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Which I am also fine to pay for... Who was picking and choosing ? Which leads to there only being so much money to go round. We can't just spend it on schools and hospitals. It has to go on things such distasteful things as bribing firms to open business over here and more importantly trying to pay off some of the huge debt. The schools and teachers should be restricted in how good they are as we can't afford it, therefore this is all a pipe dream. So we shouldn't have either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 And you squeeze them to the point where they up sticks and go and set up their operations in another country? Funny... they just had this conversation on Newsnight... The response was, so we bribe the rich and bully the poor ?? Kind of sums it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Which leads to there only being so much money to go round. We can't just spend it on schools and hospitals. It has to go on things such distasteful things as bribing firms to open business over here and more importantly trying to pay off some of the huge debt. The schools and teachers should be restricted in how good they are as we can't afford it, therefore this is all a pipe dream. So we shouldn't have either. Education is the single most important thing in this country... From education all that is good grows... I don't sign up to your way of thinking with all due respect.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24hoursfromtulsehill Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 And you squeeze them to the point where they up sticks and go and set up their operations in another country? Course they will. Because they're so talented and irreplaceable and what not. Plenty of places already have better gambling terms and I don't see anyone heading off in a hurry. I'd be willing to go on a bit-by-bit search for the point at which taxing them made their jobs not worth doing or them shipping out. The Swiss wouldn't have them. They'd have to take over a hole and operate from there. I hear Somalia's very nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Course they will. Because they're so talented and irreplaceable and what not. Plenty of places already have better gambling terms and I don't see anyone heading off in a hurry. I'd be willing to go on a bit-by-bit search for the point at which taxing them made their jobs not worth doing or them shipping out. The Swiss wouldn't have them. They'd have to take over a hole and operate from there. I hear Somalia's very nice. Some of the biggiest lies bought by the masses in general... If you tax the rich they will leave... If you pay the poor more than the rich will leave... of course its all bollocks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opinions4u Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Education is the single most important thing in this country... From education all that is good grows... And every penny spent in the public sector has to be first be earned in the private sector (or borrowed, but we're up to our overdraft limit now and have to start paying that back). Stimulating the economy to allow new and existing businesses to thrive is the only way this country can move forwards. (Again, I agree that educating our kids is vital - but this country has the most bloated higher education system in the world. You can have too much education). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oafc0000 Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 And every penny spent in the public sector has to be first be earned in the private sector (or borrowed, but we're up to our overdraft limit now and have to start paying that back). Stimulating the economy to allow new and existing businesses to thrive is the only way this country can move forwards. (Again, I agree that educating our kids is vital - but this country has the most bloated higher education system in the world. You can have too much education). I agree on higher education... My focus is on primary and secondary education.. There is plenty of money in this country to put a tick in the good education box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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